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Author Topic: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...  (Read 25102 times)

CNYCacher

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2012, 10:21:26 AM »

This is a theory that's even dumber than the original birther theory - how on earth would the citizenship of Obama's parents have anything to do with his own?  He was born in the US; the Constitution is explicit. 

I'm not sure why these "patriots" are so eager to weasel out of the Constitution they profess to adore.

Their theory is that he was not actually born in the US.
On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2012, 10:30:36 AM »

Quote
I'm not sure why these "patriots" are so eager to weasel out of the Constitution they profess to adore.

Because some people believe the Constitution contains inside it magic IWIN buttons they can mash, secret phrases they will invoke - and then their political enemies will just go away.

The Constitution does not work like that.
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wmenorr67

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2012, 10:50:59 AM »

Their theory is that he was not actually born in the US.

Part of the new theory is that citizenship is passed on by the father and since his father wasn't a US citizen he can't be.  Using that theory he is Muslim because the Islamic faith states that the religious beliefs of the father are what are carried on.
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TommyGunn

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2012, 10:59:36 AM »

Because some people believe the Constitution contains inside it magic IWIN buttons they can mash, secret phrases they will invoke - and then their political enemies will just go away.

The Constitution does not work like that.
[tinfoil]  I know no one who thinks that ....  maybe they're too ashamed of themselves to reveal themselves to me ...... :laugh: ......  [tinfoil]............... :angel:
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

CNYCacher

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2012, 11:08:24 AM »

Part of the new theory is that citizenship is passed on by the father and since his father wasn't a US citizen he can't be.  Using that theory he is Muslim because the Islamic faith states that the religious beliefs of the father are what are carried on.

If he wasn't born in the US, then it would be true that if his father wasn't a citizen, then he can't be.
On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.
Charles Babbage

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2012, 01:23:03 PM »

Part of the new theory is that citizenship is passed on by the father and since his father wasn't a US citizen he can't be.  Using that theory he is Muslim because the Islamic faith states that the religious beliefs of the father are what are carried on.
[/qu [popcorn]ote]
Yes, something like that. Go to WND and see Joe Farah's articles on the subject for more. Read other articles by another writer on WND (Cashill?) to find that Obama is a gay Kenyan Muslim.  [popcorn]

BryanP

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2012, 08:45:29 PM »

Part of the new theory is that citizenship is passed on by the father and since his father wasn't a US citizen he can't be.  Using that theory he is Muslim because the Islamic faith states that the religious beliefs of the father are what are carried on.

I spend 5 days a week in a small office with a reasonably nice guy who is absolutely convinced that Obama was born in Kenya and is a "secret Muslim".  Please, make it stop.  ;/
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2012, 08:57:44 PM »

If he wasn't born in the US, then it would be true that if his father wasn't a citizen, then he can't be.


Then how in the *expletive deleted*ck do we have several millions of anchor babies in this country?  If this is true, then there are millions of them we need to start rounding up and sending south. 
This argument won't stick.  Even if it does, he could have a second term under his belt before it gets wrangled out of the courts. 
Its a distraction, an annoyance, and just plain idiotic.
JD

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sumpnz

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #33 on: February 03, 2012, 12:34:57 AM »

As I understand all of the arguments, those trying to have him DQ'd say one or more of the following:
1) He wasn't really born in HI
2) Even if he was, his mom being <18 and his dad being Kenyan means he's not "natural born"
3) Even he was "natural born" he gave up his citizenship when his mom moved to Indonesia (the argument here is that the schools he went to required Indonesian citizenship, his step-father was Indonesian and had him naturalized there)
4) Even if he was natural born, and didn't become an Indonesian citizen his actions as a young man indicate an intent to not represent himself as an American citizen (trip to Pakistan, etc), natural born or otherwise, and therefore he had to have given up such a claim even for later in life.

Item 1 is not ever going to be accepted by our courts - his birth certificate as released will ensure that.  Item 2 won't be accepted either.  The courts would just say that since he was born in HI and the general legal opinion is that constitutes "natural born" he's therefore eligible.  Item 3 would be argued away by saying his parents just bribed the right officials, so he never gave up his citizenship to naturalize in Indonesia.  And even if "proof" was dredged up they'd find way to wave their hands and make it go away or be ruled bogus.  Item 4 is even easier for any half-decent lawyer to argue past.

All of this is to say that even if all the conspiracy theories got their day for a legitimate hearing in court Obama will never be ruled ineligible.  So all the arguments are moot.

What cracks me up though is all the birthers now claiming that Rubio and Jindal are not eligible either because they were "native born" but not "natural born" citizens.  And yet not a single one ever points to anywhere in American law that a distinction is made between the two terms.  They claim "native born" means born on US soil to non-citizen parents.  "Natural born" is defined by them as born in US jurisdiction to 2 citizen parents.  But again, they can't seem to cite where such terms are defined either in statue or SCOTUS precedent. 

Fly320s

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #34 on: February 03, 2012, 07:53:59 AM »

Then how in the *expletive deleted* do we have several millions of anchor babies in this country?  If this is true, then there are millions of them we need to start rounding up and sending south. 
This argument won't stick.  Even if it does, he could have a second term under his belt before it gets wrangled out of the courts. 
Its a distraction, an annoyance, and just plain idiotic.

Read it again, J.  CNYC said Obama can't be a citizen if his father wasn't and Obama was born outside the US.

Anchor babies are born in the US. They are immediatly US citizens even though their parents are not.
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

longeyes

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2012, 10:23:59 AM »

The birther conspiracy is symptomatic of the pervasive feeling that Americans have become aliens in an occupied nation.  It is an inarticulate and ill-reasoned protest against the very real and very deliberate insanity foisted upon the American culture by men (and policies) who have yet to be specifically identified. 
"Domari nolo."

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TommyGunn

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2012, 10:41:38 AM »

I thought the "birther conspiracies" were symptomatic of the fact that America is just plain going full-blown retard ....... :facepalm: [barf]
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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2012, 12:28:31 PM »

Sumpnz: nice breakdown. As I recall, they get their peculiar definition of natural born from an English author in the 1700s. It was from a law commentary on English law.

longeyes

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #38 on: February 03, 2012, 12:50:49 PM »

Obama IS an alien but not by virtue of his natal venue or even his family.  Of course he's alien with plenty of alien allies within our own country and especially our own power structure.
"Domari nolo."

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HankB

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2012, 01:02:46 PM »

Obama IS an alien but not by virtue of his natal venue or even his family.  Of course he's alien with plenty of alien allies within our own country and especially our own power structure.
Yep.

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BryanP

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2012, 06:38:37 PM »

I thought the "birther conspiracies" were symptomatic of the fact that America is just plain going full-blown retard ....... :facepalm: [barf]

This.  Very much this.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2012, 08:24:00 PM »

Obama IS an alien but not by virtue of his natal venue or even his family.  Of course he's alien with plenty of alien allies within our own country and especially our own power structure.

Huh, what?  I mean, WTF are you talking about? 


Read it again, J.  CNYC said Obama can't be a citizen if his father wasn't and Obama was born outside the US.

Anchor babies are born in the US. They are immediatly US citizens even though their parents are not.

I just don't think they're going to prove that he was even born outside the US.  This stuff appeals to the mouth breathing backwoods masses who think he's a mooslim suicide bomber or some *expletive deleted*it. 
Hell, he's a known socialist.  I think that's bad enough.
JD

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2012, 11:14:03 PM »

Huh, what?  I mean, WTF are you talking about? 

Quote
Hell, he's a known socialist.  I think that's bad enough.


You answered your own question. The problem with Obama is not his Kenyan or Indonesian or Muslim background; it's his European socialist ideas that are alien to historically American ideals. I believe that is more or less what longeyes meant.

Though it is longeyes, so who really knows what he means.  =|

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longeyes

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #43 on: February 04, 2012, 09:28:15 PM »

What the esteemed and beloved Longeyes meant was clear enough, and, mirabile dictu, even Fistful noted it.  :)  To wit: Obama is a cultural alien, outside the American (or what at least used to be the American) mainstream culture. 
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2012, 03:28:09 AM »

This.  Very much this.

How is this different from any of te other conspiracy theories popular in America starting with the 19th century?
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #45 on: February 07, 2012, 07:54:13 AM »

How is this different from any of te other conspiracy theories popular in America starting with the 19th century?

An interesting question. The Declaration of Independence itself may be accused of conspiracy-mongering. "When a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism..."
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #46 on: February 07, 2012, 09:30:55 AM »

What the esteemed and beloved Longeyes meant was clear enough, and, mirabile dictu, even Fistful noted it.  :)  To wit: Obama is a cultural alien, outside the American (or what at least used to be the American) mainstream culture. 

That would have been true maybe 50 years ago.  But people who don't wish to be told what to do and how to do it by uncle sam are becoming the minority.
JD

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wmenorr67

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #47 on: February 07, 2012, 10:48:25 AM »

That would have been true maybe 50 years ago.  But people who don't wish to be told what to do and how to do it by uncle sam are becoming the minority.

Because too many of them like the free money they are getting.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2012, 11:55:53 AM »

Because too many of them like the free money they are getting.

Exactly.  The rise of "compassionate conservatisim" for example.  Everyone wants on the gravy train, very few want off.  The only difference between (R)'s and (D)'s is who they are letting on the gravy train and how they want to "pay" for it.
JD

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longeyes

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2012, 12:54:55 PM »

You're right: two Americas, the legacy of the last half-century of The (Alleged) Great Society.  I hate to bring up the S-word again, but if you have a solution other than a separatist one, I'd really love to hear it.  Good Americans sat by while people with an agenda transformed America right under their noses, not only culturally but demographically, since the '60s and now America One is faced with thinking the unthinkable.  Well, maybe it isn't so unthinkable, just unpalatable.  When things get bad enough--and they are damn close to that now--our minds will become more flexible is my bet.
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