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Author Topic: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...  (Read 24903 times)

MicroBalrog

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #50 on: February 07, 2012, 02:16:57 PM »

Because too many of them like the free money they are getting.

And the power to tell others what to do, don't forget.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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Jamisjockey

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #51 on: February 07, 2012, 02:59:41 PM »

You're right: two Americas, the legacy of the last half-century of The (Alleged) Great Society.  I hate to bring up the S-word again, but if you have a solution other than a separatist one, I'd really love to hear it.  Good Americans sat by while people with an agenda transformed America right under their noses, not only culturally but demographically, since the '60s and now America One is faced with thinking the unthinkable.  Well, maybe it isn't so unthinkable, just unpalatable.  When things get bad enough--and they are damn close to that now--our minds will become more flexible is my bet.

Look at the laws of almost every state government and they are as or even more onerous than the federal government.  Really secession would just mean my wealth being redistributed closer to home to the exact same entitlement class and corporations on the dole.
Personally, I think the republic has outlived its usefulness.  We're merely going through the motions at this point, and long overdue for a new form of government.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

wmenorr67

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #52 on: February 07, 2012, 03:03:11 PM »

There is nothing wrong with our form of government.  The problem lies with the execution of it.
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longeyes

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #53 on: February 07, 2012, 04:55:08 PM »

Look at the laws of almost every state government and they are as or even more onerous than the federal government.  Really secession would just mean my wealth being redistributed closer to home to the exact same entitlement class and corporations on the dole.
Personally, I think the republic has outlived its usefulness.  We're merely going through the motions at this point, and long overdue for a new form of government.

What do you propose?

It appears to me that the only viable counter to Big State--if we rule out a Constitutional Republic--is some kind of small-scale tribalism, a form of homogeneous polity with cultural unity. 
"Domari nolo."

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Jamisjockey

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #54 on: February 07, 2012, 06:06:28 PM »

Unanimous republic, where laws may only be passed by the unanimous consent of the houses and signed by the president.  Presidential power must be eliminated to only the power of the signature or veto.  Anything short will be groundhog day.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

MicroBalrog

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #55 on: February 07, 2012, 06:19:27 PM »

The Constitution works quite fine, and would work better if people wanted it to.

The problem is at the least, most Americans - most people! - either actively support the welfare state, or tolerate it due to prioritizing other concerns over its abolition.

If you rearrange the formal political constitution you will

a) get a constitution that's a product of this mindset

b) at the best, do no better.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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Jamisjockey

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #56 on: February 07, 2012, 06:24:55 PM »

The Constitution works quite fine, and would work better if people wanted it to.

The problem is at the least, most Americans - most people! - either actively support the welfare state, or tolerate it due to prioritizing other concerns over its abolition.

If you rearrange the formal political constitution you will

a) get a constitution that's a product of this mindset

b) at the best, do no better.

Agreed.  And at this point, secession will only create a bunch of mini welfare states.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

DittoHead

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #57 on: February 07, 2012, 07:00:47 PM »

There is nothing wrong with our form of government.  The problem lies with the execution of it.

People also say this about communism.  :'(
I see no reason to give more power to the state when it can reside with the individual.

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #58 on: February 08, 2012, 12:40:29 AM »

Unanimous republic, where laws may only be passed by the unanimous consent of the houses and signed by the president.  Presidential power must be eliminated to only the power of the signature or veto.  Anything short will be groundhog day.

We had something like that in the Articles of Confederation. It worked so well that Washington, et al, moved to replace it almost immediately. In fact, they spent a long, hot summer putting their heads together to come up with something better than unanimity. And they couldn't even all agree on that!

Requiring unanimity would be a disaster.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #59 on: February 08, 2012, 02:12:06 AM »

We had something like that in the Articles of Confederation. It worked so well that Washington, et al, moved to replace it almost immediately. In fact, they spent a long, hot summer putting their heads together to come up with something better than unanimity. And they couldn't even all agree on that!


The need for a Constitution was not a consensus at the time. It was at razor's edge that it was accomplished.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #60 on: February 08, 2012, 08:35:02 AM »

The need for a Constitution was not a consensus at the time. It was at razor's edge that it was accomplished.



You mean the need for a new constitution? Yes. It is also true that the old constitution wasn't ratified until the early 1780s. And by 1787, there was already a (successful) movement to replace it.
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roo_ster

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #61 on: February 08, 2012, 09:46:39 AM »

Personally, I think the republic has outlived its usefulness.  We're merely going through the motions at this point, and long overdue for a new form of government.

There is nothing wrong with our form of government.  The problem lies with the execution of it.

It is not the form of government that is the problem, it is that Americans have degenerated, spent their cultural capital, and then let in a bunch of folks for whom our traditional form of gov't is alien.

Any sort of limited gov't is impossible without people first having some discipline and governing their own selves.  It is no coincidence that gov't has grown as personal virtue has declined.  They are parts of the same problem and addressing one without the other is doomed to failure.

Unanimous republic, where laws may only be passed by the unanimous consent of the houses and signed by the president.  Presidential power must be eliminated to only the power of the signature or veto.  Anything short will be groundhog day.

Articles of Confederation, which were under-rated, IMO.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #62 on: February 08, 2012, 09:14:22 PM »

Quote
Any sort of limited gov't is impossible without people first having some discipline and governing their own selves.  It is no coincidence that gov't has grown as personal virtue has declined.  They are parts of the same problem and addressing one without the other is doomed to failure.

In any reasonable measure, a modern Alabama resident is an epic paragon of virtue compared to a white Alabaman in 1860.  And indeed America is freer in many ways than it was, say, in 1970.

Government size is not the sole measure of freedom. But let us take government expenditure as a measure.

Let's compare America of today to Nixon's America.

Where are the price controls?
Where is the Interstate Commerce Commission (introduced by the oh-so-moral people in 1887)?
Where's the top 70% income tax rate?

The issue here is not to compare Nixon with Obama. On the state level, I will just utter three letters: C.C.W.

But more to the point, attitudes all over America are improving on major issues:

Drugs:



Guns:


Role of government:

Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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MicroBalrog

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #63 on: February 08, 2012, 09:16:02 PM »


You mean the need for a new constitution? Yes. It is also true that the old constitution wasn't ratified until the early 1780s. And by 1787, there was already a (successful) movement to replace it.

Yes, we know this. But [while I prefer the constitution] I don't think it's altogether 'not debatable' that the Federalists were right. Certainly they turned out to be wrong about many of their predictions.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Perd Hapley

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #64 on: February 09, 2012, 12:36:36 AM »

Yes, we know this. But [while I prefer the constitution] I don't think it's altogether 'not debatable' that the Federalists were right. Certainly they turned out to be wrong about many of their predictions.


I don't think I suggested that. I was just pointing out that we tried to require a unanimous vote once upon a time, but we very quickly ratified something else. That's not a rock-solid proof that unanimity was bad, just a fairly telling indicator.
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longeyes

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #65 on: February 09, 2012, 01:44:48 AM »

Too bad Gallup's polls do not reflect the political, social, and cultural realities of America in 2012.

"It is not the form of government that is the problem, it is that Americans have degenerated, spent their cultural capital, and then let in a bunch of folks for whom our traditional form of gov't is alien.

Any sort of limited gov't is impossible without people first having some discipline and governing their own selves.  It is no coincidence that gov't has grown as personal virtue has declined.  They are parts of the same problem and addressing one without the other is doomed to failure."

This. 

Secession need not produce mini-welfare states.  It could--I say could--permit the citizen to separate from the parasite.
"Domari nolo."

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Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

Jamisjockey

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #66 on: February 09, 2012, 07:21:21 AM »

Too bad Gallup's polls do not reflect the political, social, and cultural realities of America in 2012.

"It is not the form of government that is the problem, it is that Americans have degenerated, spent their cultural capital, and then let in a bunch of folks for whom our traditional form of gov't is alien.

Any sort of limited gov't is impossible without people first having some discipline and governing their own selves.  It is no coincidence that gov't has grown as personal virtue has declined.  They are parts of the same problem and addressing one without the other is doomed to failure."

This. 

Secession need not produce mini-welfare states.  It could--I say could--permit the citizen to separate from the parasite.


Good luck with that.  You dare think that they will let the producer class off the hook? Ha!
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

longeyes

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #67 on: February 09, 2012, 11:25:06 AM »

No, of course they won't.  The parasite requires its host.  True enough.  But that's where the sobriety and lack of ruth come in, the will to survive, the ability to overcome the indoctrination and propaganda to do what's necessary.  They will cling to us with sticky fingers and a dead man's grip until we finally get real about what it takes.

I think smaller government is the only answer, and it must be small enough to reach out and touch someone.
"Domari nolo."

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wmenorr67

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #68 on: February 09, 2012, 12:10:07 PM »

And what is stopping a group of people from finding some uninhabited island somewhere and starting anew?
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

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Blakenzy

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #69 on: February 09, 2012, 12:30:26 PM »

Quote
And what is stopping a group of people from finding some uninhabited island somewhere and starting anew?

The USN of course  :lol:

You WILL pay taxes whether you like it or not, where ever you are, if you hold anything of commercial value...
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longeyes

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #70 on: February 09, 2012, 12:45:37 PM »

I was informed by a "close associate" that her retirement check can no longer be direct-deposited to a bank abroad.  Well, there goes the good life in Cambodia...
"Domari nolo."

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Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

AmbulanceDriver

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #71 on: February 09, 2012, 01:34:15 PM »

In my opinion, nothing and I mean nothing will change until the average person realizes that the welfare class in this country is truly a parasite.  Until they finally say, "ENOUGH!"  Some states have taken that first step, recognizing that the leeches really are sucking them dry, and are now at least trying to require drug testing for welfare recipients.  The next step I think will be limiting programs such as food stamps/SNAP etc. to basic staples and more nutritional foods.  I don't care if you want to buy a couple pounds of a decent cut of meat.  But filet mignon?  NOT ON MY DIME! (And yes, I've personally seen that).  Fish, shellfish, shrimp?  Yeah, I'm not so worried about that.  Lobster tails??  Hell no!  Sodas, juice drinks, junk food?  Hell no!

Oh, and as long as you are receiving any form of government assistance, you WILL be on birth control.  PERIOD.  I don't give a flying [censored] if you feel that violates your rights.  Want to have children, get your ass off my dime...


(sorry, woke up a little grumpy this morning when I realized once again just how much of my money goes to support these leeches.)
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Blakenzy

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #72 on: February 09, 2012, 02:18:13 PM »

The problem is that big government LOVES dishing out welfare, because it is yet another mechanism of control over the population. In fact, the more people on welfare, the larger the segment of society that is at the mercy of the rulers... It is also a scumbag method of maintaining the masses quiet and content. It's hush money. That's why no one does anything about the abuse of welfare you described.. who cares what ridiculous stuff they spend it on as long as they aren't barking at the hand that feeds them... wouldn't want to make people unhappy and restless, now would they?
"Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own governors, must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives. A popular government without popular information or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce or a tragedy or perhaps both"

longeyes

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #73 on: February 09, 2012, 03:25:42 PM »

Well, either they get restless or we do, isn't that what it's come down to?

It's an analog, to me, of the illegal alien situation.  Either we deport them or we, de facto, deport ourselves and our way of life.

Choose.
"Domari nolo."

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Blakenzy

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Re: Full analysis of Obama Eligibility Hearing ...
« Reply #74 on: February 09, 2012, 04:17:50 PM »

Ha! People on welfare riot, apparently the taxpaying, law abiding citizen does not. Who do you think gets the s**t end of the government stick? Just hold your nose and keep on voting in scumbag after scumbag, and then wonder "why we so screwed?".
"Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own governors, must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives. A popular government without popular information or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce or a tragedy or perhaps both"
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