Author Topic: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad? (Read 95839 times)

gunsmith · « **on:** March 20, 2012, 12:35:59 AM »

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/03/19/department-justice-opens-investigation-into-case-black-teenager-killed-by/?intcmp=trending

Guy is "captain" of neighborhood watch, follows suspicious teen, calls 911 then shoots teen.

Even if a good shoot, so far doesn't seem like a smart one, guy was in his car and could have driven a safe distance as teen was unarmed and on foot.

I've been wrong before though...I still owe cassandrassdaddy a nickle!

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #1 on:** March 20, 2012, 12:50:57 AM »

thats a tough case to call. lots of variables. the shooters got history. the kid was 6 foot plus but skinny. there is evidence they fought before shooting

BridgeRunner · « **Reply #2 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:43:00 AM »

Seems to me that between neighborhood watch 911-addicted "black kids don't belong around here" nutball and unarmed kid running to store for snack, where kid running to store for snack ends up dead, I wouldn't assume that the unarmed kid running to store for a snack started something. Even if he's six feet tall.

De Selby · « **Reply #3 on:** March 20, 2012, 02:18:41 AM »

Calling 911 because the kid was walking around in the rain?

If there was a fight, it was probably the result of an attempted and illegal "citizens arrest" - ironically meaning that it was the kid who had a right to stand his ground, not junior batman.

MicroBalrog · « **Reply #4 on:** March 20, 2012, 05:50:44 AM »

This is why you should avoid intervening in things unless you're really really clear what is going on.

Chester32141 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 20, 2012, 08:27:01 AM »

This happened about 20 miles from where I live. Things are really starting to heat up. Couple things are not right after the fact. The TV keeps showing photos of the deceased that were taken when he was about 14 to make it appear that he was a little kid. I'm sure many of the ne'er-do-wells here have photos from their youth that make them look like little angels, I know I do. It has become very racially charged. The narrative has changed from right or wrong to black and white.

I believe the HOA guy was a loose cannon that should have left his gun at home and pushed the issue til he got more than he bargained for. The TV reports he made 52 calls to 911 in the past year to make it sound like he was a nut. A neighborhood watch captain calling 911 an average of once per week could be more someone doing the job right and letting the police handle things than a hysterical nut. The neighborhood is a gated community w/ poverty right next door.

HankB · « **Reply #6 on:** March 20, 2012, 08:38:42 AM »

The shooter has not been charged in the case. This strongly suggests that there's no evidence right now that the shooter is in the wrong. (This could change as the investigation continues.)

Maybe the shooter really is a trigger happy nutball.

Or maybe the deceased isn't the harmless little choirboy he's being portrayed as.

I don't know, and I doubt that anyone reading this thread knows, either.

About all I can be sure of is that since the Feds (in the form of the Obama Justice Department) are now becoming involved is that political considerations are going to muddy the water thoroughly.

Jamie B · « **Reply #7 on:** March 20, 2012, 09:08:48 AM »

Quote from: Chester32141 on March 20, 2012, 08:27:01 AM

This happened about 20 miles from where I live. Things are really starting to heat up. Couple things are not right after the fact. The TV keeps showing photos of the deceased that were taken when he was about 14 to make it appear that he was a little kid. I'm sure many of the ne'er-do-wells here have photos from their youth that make them look like little angels, I know I do. It has become very racially charged. The narrative has changed from right or wrong to black and white.

I believe the HOA guy was a loose cannon that should have left his gun at home and pushed the issue til he got more than he bargained for. The TV reports he made 52 calls to 911 in the past year to make it sound like he was a nut. A neighborhood watch captain calling 911 an average of once per week could be more someone doing the job right and letting the police handle things than a hysterical nut. The neighborhood is a gated community w/ poverty right next door.

Very interesting observations from the ground level. Keep it up!

TommyGunn · « **Reply #8 on:** March 20, 2012, 11:47:59 AM »

Quote from: De Selby on March 20, 2012, 02:18:41 AM

Calling 911 because the kid was walking around in the rain?

If there was a fight, it was probably the result of an attempted and illegal "citizens arrest" - ironically meaning that it was the kid who had a right to stand his ground, not junior batman.

Citizen's arrest isn't "illegal" per se. It may (or may not) be unjustified depending upon the circumstances.
The main fault IMHO here is the neighborhood watch guy was told by police not to do anything, so he (naturally) strikes out and does something. Even this isn't "illegal" -- just really, really BAD judgement.
And as a result, a young man (thug?) is dead and we have the opening salvos of racial tensions flaring and the Fibbies entering the fray.

Chester32141 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 20, 2012, 12:41:23 PM »

From what I can gather the deceased probably was not a thug but like many kids of the age may have been dressed like one. I say that because early on the photo that was shown of him looked a bit sketchy. You need to search for the original photo to see it now. I hear that the one female witness has changed her story since the event became political and racial. At first her story supported a possibly 'good shoot' and now her story is that the shooter was the aggressor. From what little I've seen of this witness I would judge her second story to be one prompted by her bleeding heart, not necessarily the facts. No matter what, the shooter should have listened to the police and let them take care of it. It sounds like he was bothered by the fact that police have shown up after reported prowlers have left in the past.

De Selby · « **Reply #10 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:02:36 PM »

Since when is a shady looking guy on the sidewalk a 911 emergency?

The kid undoubtedly had every right to be there. Junior batman likely had no right to challenge him.

This is tragic. The criminal case merits a second look.

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #11 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:08:09 PM »

how about the right to assault someone? shooter was bleeding. and i suspect that happened before the shooting

AmbulanceDriver · « **Reply #12 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:10:47 PM »

At the moment, I'm leaning towards bad shoot, but only because this guy decided to exit his vehicle and possibly escalate the confrontation. Especially after 911 told him NOT to confront the guy. I would have remained in the vehicle where I could observe the guy from a safe distance and continue to report where I was to the police.

That being said, I don't know all the facts of the story, so I reserve the right to change my opinion... :D

TommyGunn · « **Reply #13 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:11:44 PM »

DeSelby, a suspect a good number of thugs are caught by people who report "suspicious activity" to the police (and subsequently actually follow the given advice) when the police are actually able to conduct am investigation and find out what's going on. Maybe some "suspicious people" turn out to be honest people who were lost, or whatever.

Quote

The kid undoubtedly had every right to be there.

How do you know? Did YOU investigate the crime? Is anyone so sure of the facts they can pass edicts like this? The deceased apparantly did have some record, although --apparantly -- he'd done nothing to justify the shooting at the particular point this tragedy went down.
Had he not been shot, it's impossible to say what would have happened.
All of which sorta makes me think calling the police might have been the last smart thing that vigilante did.

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #14 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:17:35 PM »

whats the law in fla with gated communities? was the kid trespassing?

De Selby · « **Reply #15 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:21:08 PM »

Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 20, 2012, 01:08:09 PM

how about the right to assault someone? shooter was bleeding. and i suspect that happened before the shooting

Yeah, and what's the mostblikelynreason for that? Because he was a weirdo chasing kiddies in the neighborhood, or because the kid decided to be aggressive coincidentally at the same moment said weirdo hopped out of the car?

Try coming up with a realistic scenario for a fight that doesn't involve a weirdo menacing neighborhood kids.

Tommy, we know the kid had a right to be there because we have proof that he was walking home from the store.

52 calls to 911 in a year? And his photo looks like a "best of" from the Megan's law website? Yeah, not seeing how this kid wouldn't be terrified of his eventual murderer.

gunsmith · « **Reply #16 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:23:18 PM »

Quote from: Chester32141 on March 20, 2012, 12:41:23 PM

It sounds like he was bothered by the fact that police have shown up after reported prowlers have left in the past.

Yup, that's what got me arrested a few yrs back and my ccw suspended for a whole year while it got itself sorted out.

Reno PD has a habit of not even ticketing or running the names of people who run out of taxi's without paying.
After I had caught 3 of them doing that to me and the cops doing squat I was rougher with the fourth.

If the cops have let dBag criminals get away, then I have a lot of sympathy for the guy.

gunsmith · « **Reply #17 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:30:30 PM »

Quote from: De Selby on March 20, 2012, 01:21:08 PM

And his photo looks like a "best of" from the Megan's law website? Yeah, not seeing how this kid wouldn't be terrified of his eventual murderer.

Racist stereotyping of Latino's is OK, as long as you're a radlib.

roo_ster · « **Reply #18 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:38:54 PM »

Current images:

Earlier Image:

Image of shooter:

Might have been able to get to the bottom of it, but now that the federales stuck their dirty thumbs on the scales, I doubt it.

Quote from: gunsmith on March 20, 2012, 01:30:30 PM

Racist stereotyping of Latino's is OK, as long as you're a radlib.

Black trumps gay & latino. (In general, on the Hierarchy of NAMs.)

De Selby · « **Reply #19 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:42:14 PM »

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-death-friend-phone-teen-death-recounts/t/story?id=15959017#.T2iJNtmDl8E

Quote

ABC News was there exclusively as the 16-year-old girl told Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump about the last moments of the teenager’s life.

“He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man,” Martin’s friend said. “I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run.”

Eventually he would run, said the girl, thinking that he’d managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.

“Trayvon said, ‘What, are you following me for,’ and the man said, ‘What are you doing here.’ Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn’t answer the phone.”

The line went dead. Besides screams heard on 911 calls that night as Martin and Zimmerman scuffled, those were the last words he said.

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #20 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:45:19 PM »

Quote from: De Selby on March 20, 2012, 01:21:08 PM

Yeah, and what's the mostblikelynreason for that? Because he was a weirdo chasing kiddies in the neighborhood, or because the kid decided to be aggressive coincidentally at the same moment said weirdo hopped out of the car?

Try coming up with a realistic scenario for a fight that doesn't involve a weirdo menacing neighborhood kids.

Tommy, we know the kid had a right to be there because we have proof that he was walking home from the store.

52 calls to 911 in a year? And his photo looks like a "best of" from the Megan's law website? Yeah, not seeing how this kid wouldn't be terrified of his eventual murderer.

the "kid " was 6'4

RevDisk · « **Reply #21 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:47:02 PM »

Quote from: BridgeRunner on March 20, 2012, 01:43:00 AM

Seems to me that between neighborhood watch 911-addicted "black kids don't belong around here" nutball and unarmed kid running to store for snack, where kid running to store for snack ends up dead, I wouldn't assume that the unarmed kid running to store for a snack started something. Even if he's six feet tall.

While the motivations of the guy in question are only conjecture at this point... Yea. The situation went sideways.

First rule of being a rentacop or wannabe rentacop. Watch and don't interfere. Call the cops and let them deal with it. Regardless of whether the guy is a nutball, guilty of something or ... not, he's basically ruined for life. Reputation is not "guilty until proven innocent". In this sort of case, he's considered guilty in the overwhelming public eye regardless of circumstances or charges.

Hence, call the police and let them sort it out.

De Selby · « **Reply #22 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:48:28 PM »

Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 20, 2012, 01:45:19 PM

the "kid " was 6'4

Yeah, so what? Now we know how the fight started....weirdo chasing the kid, as was the most likely scenario from the start.

Zimmerman should start the prison workout now - he'll need it.

And now some articles are reporting that he regularly preached gun ownership and use to his neighborhood. Great.

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #23 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:55:37 PM »

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/19/us/911-tapes-released-in-killing-of-florida-teenager.html

a lot will depend on whether it was kid or zimmerman yelling for help and whether zimmerman shot from ground

roo_ster · « **Reply #24 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:58:58 PM »

Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 20, 2012, 01:55:37 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/19/us/911-tapes-released-in-killing-of-florida-teenager.html

a lot will depend on whether it was kid or zimmerman yelling for help and whether zimmerman shot from ground

Ayup.
Shooting dude (not "kid," at 17YO & 6'4") on the ground is gonna need some 'spalinin'. Shooting up from the ground at a dude = "job well done."

News:

Author Topic: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad? (Read 95839 times)