Author Topic: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations..."  (Read 79114 times)

Pharmacology

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Re: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations..."
« Reply #50 on: May 17, 2012, 04:10:37 PM »
Also, he was prescribed certain medications prior to the shooting. Supposedly, those may have affected his behavior.
A benzodiazepine and adderall?

If the prosecutors get anyone at all to buy that those meds contributed to the shooting, they are wizards.

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cordex

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Re: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations..."
« Reply #52 on: May 17, 2012, 05:48:20 PM »

HankB

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Re: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations..."
« Reply #53 on: May 18, 2012, 09:07:39 AM »
And when Zimmerman said (during the 911 call) the suspicious guy was walking around like he was on drugs or something,  Martin supporters were apoplectic; it was all PROFILING, which Zimmerman had no business doing.

Well, guess what!

 [popcorn]
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 10:36:09 AM by HankB »
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brimic

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Re: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations..."
« Reply #54 on: May 18, 2012, 10:25:25 AM »
Its fairly clear that Zimmermann Assaulted Martin- he took his nose and slammed it into Martin's knuckles causing beaks in the skin. Id be scared for my life too if someone smaller than me were crazy enough to start slamming their face into my hands :O
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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MicroBalrog

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Re: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations..."
« Reply #56 on: May 18, 2012, 12:45:35 PM »
I thought MJ makes people more relaxed?
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gunsmith

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Re: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations..."
« Reply #57 on: May 18, 2012, 12:49:29 PM »
http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/marijuanas-risks-are-high-for-pro-athletes-but-so-are-its-benefits-9e3em7t-135603308.html


interesting piece on making it easier to overcome fear

Very interesting, thanks!  I was a bike messenger in both SF and NYC, smoked a lot of weed in those days - I got hit by cars more then a few times - I guess the weed helped. :cool:

I still recommend not smoking it though.
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makattak

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Re: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations..."
« Reply #58 on: May 18, 2012, 01:39:56 PM »
I thought MJ makes people more relaxed?

Alcohol makes people more relaxed, too.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

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Re: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations..."
« Reply #59 on: May 18, 2012, 05:45:36 PM »
I think the real issue is that we have a 16 year old who is using illegal drugs. What does that say about Trevyon's character? 


DS, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
Either he was pursued, or followed.  My assumption when this first happened was that it was a chase.  But it sounds a lot less like that was the case. 
Also, according to Zimmerman, he had already lost Martin and was on his way back to his car.


Even if he was pursuing Martin.  Lets just say it for argument sake.
Can you make a case that assaulting someone who is pursuing you is valid and warranted?  I doubt it. 
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zxcvbob

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Re: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations..."
« Reply #60 on: May 18, 2012, 06:48:22 PM »
Quote
Can you make a case that assaulting someone who is pursuing you is valid and warranted?  I doubt it.

If you reasonably fear for your life and the only avenue of escape is *forward*.  (that wasn't the case here, just sayin')

There's that pesky word "reasonable" again...
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations..."
« Reply #61 on: May 19, 2012, 10:22:36 AM »

Can you make a case that assaulting someone who is pursuing you is valid and warranted?  I doubt it. 

No, but that isn't the issue here. Martin, remember, is not on trial.

The standard in many jurisdictions (I do not know if it is the standard in Florida) that self-defense does not fully apply if you initiated an encounter.

If you walked up to a biker bar and started a conversation with a resident by punching him in the face and then spitting on him, you would swiftly find yourself the target of a beat-down. Is that legally all right to beat up a person for spitting on you and punching you? Likely not, but that doesn't mean you can then shoot the biker who beats you up and get away with it.
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lupinus

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Re: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations..."
« Reply #62 on: May 19, 2012, 10:51:30 AM »
Except in this case, all information available to us shows Zimmerman did nothing of the sort. Following a suspicious person does not mean you meant to have an encounter. And it certainly doesn't rank anywhere near initiating a fight.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

makattak

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Re: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations..."
« Reply #63 on: May 19, 2012, 09:55:55 PM »
No, but that isn't the issue here. Martin, remember, is not on trial.

The standard in many jurisdictions (I do not know if it is the standard in Florida) that self-defense does not fully apply if you initiated an encounter.

If you walked up to a biker bar and started a conversation with a resident by punching him in the face and then spitting on him, you would swiftly find yourself the target of a beat-down. Is that legally all right to beat up a person for spitting on you and punching you? Likely not, but that doesn't mean you can then shoot the biker who beats you up and get away with it.

Big difference between "initiating an encounter" and assault. Your scenario is clearly assault as even without the punch, spitting on someone is assault.

However, EVENIF YOU ASSAULT SOMEONE and "initiate the encounter," in Florida,  you can still claim self-defense if your fellow combatant uses such force as to make you fear for your life. Such as, for example, if they cut off your retreat by sitting on top of you and make you fear for your life by smashing your head into a sidewalk or even the ground... you know, just to create some random hypothetical.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

De Selby

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Re: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations..."
« Reply #64 on: May 20, 2012, 08:52:55 PM »
Except in this case, all information available to us shows Zimmerman did nothing of the sort. Following a suspicious person does not mean you meant to have an encounter. And it certainly doesn't rank anywhere near initiating a fight.

How about chasing that person off the street, in a footpath area behind a bunch of houses, on a dark night?

Mak, you realize there's a witness who saw the two men running, one behind the other, BEFORE the fight started?  Also, why was Zimmerman behind the row of houses, away from the street, if all he did was get out to see a street number? 

Those facts probably have something to do with the fact that the lead investigator swore probable cause to arrest before the case became a media sensation..

Having read the released file, I can't imagine how his redacted statements will help him.  If they're consistent with the witnesses, they're not consistent with being attacked by surprise after stopping to look at a street number.  If they're not consistent with the witnesses, well, who is it that has the most to gain by embellishing?

The report also lists Martin sat 5'11", 158 pounds.  So smaller than Zimmerman by a significant margin.

Again folks, the important lesson - don't go chasing people in the night when armed.  It's insanely reckless, and likely to result in an innocent person dead and another standing before a judge with the "wtf happened!?" face.
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lupinus

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Re: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations..."
« Reply #65 on: May 20, 2012, 09:49:58 PM »
How about chasing that person off the street, in a footpath area behind a bunch of houses, on a dark night?
So by your estimation it is perfectly reasonable for someone who believes themselves being followed, has not been assaulted or threatened, to set up an ambush and start pummeling the person who was believe was following them without warning?

But keeping an eye on a suspicious person to report an accurate and up to date position is not?
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

De Selby

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Re: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations..."
« Reply #66 on: May 20, 2012, 10:07:45 PM »
So by your estimation it is perfectly reasonable for someone who believes themselves being followed, has not been assaulted or threatened, to set up an ambush and start pummeling the person who was believe was following them without warning?

But keeping an eye on a suspicious person to report an accurate and up to date position is not?

What ambush is this?   I pointed out that the one witness on file who saw both men before they started fighting saw them running, one after another.  That is not consistent with an ambush scenario, nor with the "do you have a problem?" story, which also conflicts with the witness who was on the phone listening as the fight began.   Her testimony is that trayvon said "why are you following me for?", which, incidentally, is consistent with the witness who watched the men before the fight started.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations..."
« Reply #67 on: May 20, 2012, 11:33:52 PM »
there's a witness who saw the two men running,


really?  i missed that
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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De Selby

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Re: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations..."
« Reply #68 on: May 21, 2012, 12:56:35 AM »
there's a witness who saw the two men running,


really?  i missed that

Yep, in the file Here: http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/17/11748468-court-docs-trayvon-martin-shooting-ultimately-avoidable-by-zimmerman?lite along with other witness statements.

Zimmermans statements to police are not there.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

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Re: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations..."
« Reply #69 on: May 21, 2012, 02:26:40 AM »
oooh the ever reliable MSNBC ;/
yeah, those folks that had to fire folks due to their selective editing, gosh, who would ever remember that?
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De Selby

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Re: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations..."
« Reply #70 on: May 21, 2012, 03:29:30 AM »
oooh the ever reliable MSNBC ;/
yeah, those folks that had to fire folks due to their selective editing, gosh, who would ever remember that?

?  That's a PDF of the police files released.  It wasn't written by MSNBC.

Doh, grabbed the wrong link for my post: http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Zimmerman_Discovery.pdf

That is the right link.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

makattak

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Re: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations..."
« Reply #71 on: May 21, 2012, 08:15:49 AM »
?  That's a PDF of the police files released.  It wasn't written by MSNBC.

Doh, grabbed the wrong link for my post: http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Zimmerman_Discovery.pdf

That is the right link.

Alright, on what page is that witness' testimony found?
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

De Selby

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Re: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations..."
« Reply #72 on: May 21, 2012, 08:51:25 AM »
Alright, on what page is that witness' testimony found?

Page 40. 
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Jamisjockey

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Re: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations..."
« Reply #73 on: May 21, 2012, 09:09:32 AM »
So just lets see if we get this right.
You believe that being chased by someone gives you the right to turn around and initiate an assault on them? Is that right?
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations..."
« Reply #74 on: May 21, 2012, 09:11:07 AM »
start looking around page 35   its tuff with names redacted to tell who is who especially bad since one at least witness changed her story
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I