Author Topic: Ranger School to Accept Females  (Read 33711 times)

Perd Hapley

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Re: Ranger School to Accept Females
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2012, 11:23:14 AM »
...there's never a shortage of perfidious bitches.  

Now if that ain't sig-worthy...
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MrsSmith

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Re: Ranger School to Accept Females
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2012, 11:25:57 AM »
Larry, women like that make the rest of us look bad, there's no question. And she should have been court-martialed out for her actions.

When I was recruitment age, I was in phenomenal shape, was an expert marksman, and scored a 98% on the ASVAB. I was told by a very surly Army recruiter that it would be a cold day in hell before a woman picked up a rifle, served on a ship, or flew a fighter in his U.S. military. I've thought about him often over the years and wondered how he was enjoying the cool temps.

I may not have qualified, but I would have liked the opportunity to see if I could have - with no alteration of the standards.
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makattak

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Re: Ranger School to Accept Females
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2012, 11:33:32 AM »
Why do they need to be performing better than said "very fit men"? Is it not sufficient that they perform as well as they do?

A highly irrelevant fact. It's irrelevant how 'men' act because you are not enlisting men. You're enlisting the specific men and women who are serving. It's the role of training and discipline to get people to act not naturally, but the way they were trained to act.

Has the performance of these militaries declined in a measurable way after the introduction of women into the armed forces, and in a way that can be directly attributed to that?

1. You're right, I should have said "as well as". The numbers do not significantly change.

2. Can you tell me how you aggregate training methods to be applied to thousands of people that don't use "statistics"?

3. ...are you now asking me for statistics to back up my assertion? I thought people weren't statistics?
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Fitz

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Re: Ranger School to Accept Females
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2012, 11:35:32 AM »
The issue, I think, is that something is clearly wrong with how WE train our men AND women in the military.

Because (and these are FACTS)

A.) OUR military men act differently in the presence of women

B.) MANY military women can not and do not perform to the same standard as men.
Fitz

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Re: Ranger School to Accept Females
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2012, 11:44:42 AM »
1. You're right, I should have said "as well as". The numbers do not significantly change.

The military fitness test does not require men to be exceptionally fit. It requires them to be generally well fit.

I am a man of very below average fitness, yet I could do most of it rather well (this I know because the IDF fitness test is broadly similar).

Quote
3. ...are you now asking me for statistics to back up my assertion? I thought people weren't statistics?

You are making a specific, falsifiable, claim: that military performance will be degraded by the presence of women in the military, and that this will inevitably occur.

In what way has the performance of the U.S. military, the IDF, the Soviet military, been degraded by the presence of women therein that can actually be detected and you can report to me?
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Ranger School to Accept Females
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2012, 11:49:58 AM »
The issue, I think, is that something is clearly wrong with how WE train our men AND women in the military.

Because (and these are FACTS)

A.) OUR military men act differently in the presence of women

B.) MANY military women can not and do not perform to the same standard as men.

The answer is simple, in my mind. Not easy, but simple:

1. Research - this should be happening in any military force any way, all the time - what the physical, fitness, and training requirements are for the various branches of the armed forces, and for the people who serve therein. Develop standards based on that:

"We want tank crews to be able to drive tanks, maintain the tanks (shifting 80-kilo parts about to clean them, disassembling heavy tank equipment, etc.), load them with shells, etc. We also want crewmen to fit comfortably in the tanks. Therefore, we should have a training course lasting X months. To check if people are available for service on board the tanks, make sure that they can pass a physical test (X pushups, Y situps, run X miles).

2. Make out tests based on what we discovered in  1. "Every recruit must do X pushpups, Y situps, run X miles. Nobody who fails this test, man or woman, will be allowed to serve on our beloved tanks."

Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Fitz

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Re: Ranger School to Accept Females
« Reply #31 on: May 29, 2012, 11:53:47 AM »
The answer is simple, in my mind. Not easy, but simple:

1. Research - this should be happening in any military force any way, all the time - what the physical, fitness, and training requirements are for the various branches of the armed forces, and for the people who serve therein. Develop standards based on that:

"We want tank crews to be able to drive tanks, maintain the tanks (shifting 80-kilo parts about to clean them, disassembling heavy tank equipment, etc.), load them with shells, etc. We also want crewmen to fit comfortably in the tanks. Therefore, we should have a training course lasting X months. To check if people are available for service on board the tanks, make sure that they can pass a physical test (X pushups, Y situps, run X miles).

2. Make out tests based on what we discovered in  1. "Every recruit must do X pushpups, Y situps, run X miles. Nobody who fails this test, man or woman, will be allowed to serve on our beloved tanks."




On this, we can agree. However, in the US Military, this is what has historically happened.

1.) These are the standards for our soldiers to serve in XXXX job. Doesn't matter what the female standards are, because females aren't allowed into this job.

2.) ZOMG we have to let females into this job.

3.) OK, fine. They can do it.

The problem in the US military is that the service's physical standards have never (and likely will never, given the climate and the amount of bellyaching that will happen) been the same for males and females.

Fitz

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makattak

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Re: Ranger School to Accept Females
« Reply #32 on: May 29, 2012, 11:55:44 AM »
You are making a specific, falsifiable, claim: that military performance will be degraded by the presence of women in the military, and that this will inevitably occur.

In what way has the performance of the U.S. military, the IDF, the Soviet military, been degraded by the presence of women therein that can actually be detected and you can report to me?

Snark aside, I cannot provide such statistical proof as we have no control group, no ceteris paribus conditions upon which to base the comparison. Too many other changes happened to make any such claim.

There are, however, several studies that show that men respond differently when a female is in danger than when a male is in danger.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

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Re: Ranger School to Accept Females
« Reply #33 on: May 29, 2012, 01:17:07 PM »
I have a problem with women in most roles in the service, even if they can do the job and meet the standards. Doing otherwise doesn't really make much sense to me.

Women, in general, are not able to meet the physical standards set to weed out unfit men. There are a very few number of women who can still meet the same standard.

Now I know this is a VERY controversial thing to say, and it can be very hard to accept, but, in my experience (and a significant number of scholarly studies) men act differently when they are around women. Thus, I would prefer just one sex be involved in a military setting. Since, on average, men are more physically capable, I prefer that sex to be men.

*blink*

I was in a mixed MOS, Commo is not a combat arms specialty. Never mind you can get attached to any unit in the US Army. And of course, the radio geek is never targeted by enemy forces. So I have six years of experience with combat and non-combat units. It's not discussed, but we already have women in combat roles. Just not on paper. Medics, MPs, commo geeks, mechanics, etc tend not to work entirely in garrison in modern warfare. Only way to keep women out of combat is to bar them from military service.

Short story long, some hack it. Some don't. Blue falcons are blue falcons.

I had two officers I remember that were worth a damn. One was a female Lt. Yes, once in a while, stuff happened. A very young enlisted soldier made a very crude comment about her appearance, and began enumerating certain thoughts that were illegal and not very polite. Could have written him up, but I provided him counseling that gave him a better understanding of military courtesy. I hit him at the base of the skull with the butt of an M16, loaded a mag, loaded a round, switched to three round burst and then put the muzzle against his eye. I then calmly explained that what was and was not appropriate conduct of junior enlisted personnel with reference to verbal comments towards officers, period. He assured me he had learned his lesson and would not be disrespectful towards superior officers in the future. AFAIK, he did not repeat it afterwards.

Bad behavior. Senior personnel correct. Life moves on, Makattak. Believe it or not, this has occurred since the Roman Legions. Officers and NCOs failing to proper instruct and LEAD their troops is a failure on their part. I will concede that the military has often binded the hands of officers/NCOs with rules written by bureaucrats with no field experience, often as extreme reactions to officers/NCOs doing something stupid.



On the flip side...

Is that a standards problem?  It looks like a lying problem and a lack of due process problem.  =|

The trouble with stories like that becoming an argument against women in the military is that when you use it to argue against women in the military, it's less "women aren't capable" and more "women are perfidious bitches."  The trouble is that there's never a shortage of perfidious bitches.  They are hardly universally female, though.  And females are far from universally perfidious bitches.

Of course, it's mostly the women who leverage the "due process doesn't apply here if I use the magic words" gambit.  That's a procedural problem and a definitional problem.  It is one that tends to crop up mostly where women are involved, but hey, drowning mostly crops up where is water.  Still think we should keep the stuff around.  

No, it is the same issue. Respectfully, the "due process doesn't apply here if I use the magic words" is not due to the military more often than not. Their civilian masters set the tone on that. Short story long (again), some people in the military did some dumb things and civilian brass basically told the military to override due process as the default option. Because the civilian population often weighs social engineering over near term military effectiveness.  

Yes, it likely will get folks killed. That is entirely acceptable to those that support social engineering. Honestly, they're probably right but only the long term will bare that out. I would prefer folks that support social engineering own up to it, however.

I personally believe that women should be allowed any job they bloody well please. As long as they do the job, to the same exact standard. Problem is, that will not be allowed, and there will be a dual standard. This is doubly damning. Because the competent females are (and should be) viewed with suspicion until otherwise proven. And you have blue falcon females that get significantly more leeway than should be allowed. These are the natural consequences, which social engineering supporters should acknowledge if they are pushing for inequality.

In the long run, it'll mostly sort itself out. You'll always have people doing stupid things.



The issue, I think, is that something is clearly wrong with how WE train our men AND women in the military.

Because (and these are FACTS)

A.) OUR military men act differently in the presence of women

B.) MANY military women can not and do not perform to the same standard as men.

One is false, the other is vague.

"Our military men" means all males in the military act differently in the presence of women. Uh, yea, if one male doesn't, you statement is false. (Metaphorically raises hand) There. False. "A percent of males that I cannot accurately describe act differently in the presence of women" would be accurate, but I wouldn't see the point unless you alleged (or somehow proved) it was a sufficiently high number to be problematic. Or that is it problematic. You may or may not be right. However, calling something "fact" or "truth" does not make it fact or true. That requires proof, preferably with rigor.

The second is I'm gathering intentionally vague. Many is any number more than one, and entirely subjective. If two military women were unable to perform to the same standard as men, you'd be factually correct and entirely dishonest. Are you trying to allege that the majority of females in the military are unable to meet the standard? A rough guess would be 5-10% of soldiers, male or female, are extremely good, 80+% are "good enough" and a 5-10% should be canned. Difference is, if it's a dude, he's seen as incompetent. If it's a chick, females are seen as incompetent.

Plenty of males don't meet the standard either, dude. Hell, I thought roughly a quarter of my class in Basic should have been weeded out.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 01:29:53 PM by RevDisk »
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Ranger School to Accept Females
« Reply #34 on: May 29, 2012, 01:47:08 PM »
Is that a standards problem? It looks like a lying problem and a lack of due process problem.  =|

The trouble with stories like that becoming an argument against women in the military is that when you use it to argue against women in the military, it's less "women aren't capable" and more "women are perfidious bitches."  The trouble is that there's never a shortage of perfidious bitches.  They are hardly universally female, though.  And females are far from universally perfidious bitches.

Of course, it's mostly the women who leverage the "due process doesn't apply here if I use the magic words" gambit.  That's a procedural problem and a definitional problem.  It is one that tends to crop up mostly where women are involved, but hey, drowning mostly crops up where is water.  Still think we should keep the stuff around.  

The root of the problem was that she couldn't physically do the job required of her. In her mind the reason she couldn't do the job was because this evil male wouldn't let her.

It is a verifiable fact that men are generally on average larger and stronger than women.

It is also a fact that there are jobs that require a certain level of physical strength to perform.

When a minimum physical standard is determined to be a requirement for a given job then it doesn't matter what the persons gender is so long as they can perform to that minimum standard.

The problems arise when in the name of fairness and political correctness and gender equality those physical standards are "adjusted" only for women so that women can also do the same job as men.

If we as a country and culture decided that we are indeed going to treat men and women equally in the armed forces then certain cultural things will have to change.
 
My military experience was 20 years ago so things may have changed some since then but as women generally expect/demand some deference to their gender from men in civilian life, military women do as well, it is a cultural bias. If that deference isn't given then things like harassment, discrimination, hostile work environment, and other nasty things start flying around and peoples careers go down in flames.

But if some people want to get all butt hurt when those of us with actual experience in the area of how women in the military actually works out tell it like is well that's to bad. Sometimes life isn't fair or politically correct.
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BridgeRunner

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Re: Ranger School to Accept Females
« Reply #35 on: May 29, 2012, 01:49:34 PM »
Rev, wasn't drawing a line between military and civilian rules. It's clearly a political issue, pushed by civilian pressures. And that kind of thing is present in most large orgs, although fewer tend to get killed in business, at least directly.

Was stating that the problem in RKL's case was a failure of process--however and whoever developed/influenced the processes. The problem wasn't that the arguable person involved was female, but that she was able to dishonestly avail herself of a faulty process.

Fitz

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Re: Ranger School to Accept Females
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2012, 01:53:23 PM »
*blink*
One is false, the other is vague.

"Our military men" means all males in the military act differently in the presence of women. Uh, yea, if one male doesn't, you statement is false. (Metaphorically raises hand) There. False. "A percent of males that I cannot accurately describe act differently in the presence of women" would be accurate, but I wouldn't see the point unless you alleged (or somehow proved) it was a sufficiently high number to be problematic. Or that is it problematic. You may or may not be right. However, calling something "fact" or "truth" does not make it fact or true. That requires proof, preferably with rigor.

The second is I'm gathering intentionally vague. Many is any number more than one, and entirely subjective. If two military women were unable to perform to the same standard as men, you'd be factually correct and entirely dishonest. Are you trying to allege that the majority of females in the military are unable to meet the standard? A rough guess would be 5-10% of soldiers, male or female, are extremely good, 80+% are "good enough" and a 5-10% should be canned. Difference is, if it's a dude, he's seen as incompetent. If it's a chick, females are seen as incompetent.

Plenty of males don't meet the standard either, dude. Hell, I thought roughly a quarter of my class in Basic should have been weeded out.

OK, MANY of our military men then. I've observed it in country, it's true.

Same with the second statement. Many of our women cannot meet the male physical standards. This data I've arrived at by seeing and compiling APFT results (where a lot of the pushup scores are in the teens and 20s, nowhere near passing by the male standards, and seeing the run scores that are also above what a male can do)

I've also seen the times on ruckmarches and other stuff, at a battalion level.

I'm not sure how you can call my claim false.
Fitz

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Fitz

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makattak

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Re: Ranger School to Accept Females
« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2012, 02:17:58 PM »
*blink*

I was in a mixed MOS, Commo is not a combat arms specialty. Never mind you can get attached to any unit in the US Army. And of course, the radio geek is never targeted by enemy forces. So I have six years of experience with combat and non-combat units. It's not discussed, but we already have women in combat roles. Just not on paper. Medics, MPs, commo geeks, mechanics, etc tend not to work entirely in garrison in modern warfare. Only way to keep women out of combat is to bar them from military service.

Short story long, some hack it. Some don't. Blue falcons are blue falcons.

I had two officers I remember that were worth a damn. One was a female Lt. Yes, once in a while, stuff happened. A very young enlisted soldier made a very crude comment about her appearance, and began enumerating certain thoughts that were illegal and not very polite. Could have written him up, but I provided him counseling that gave him a better understanding of military courtesy. I hit him at the base of the skull with the butt of an M16, loaded a mag, loaded a round, switched to three round burst and then put the muzzle against his eye. I then calmly explained that what was and was not appropriate conduct of junior enlisted personnel with reference to verbal comments towards officers, period. He assured me he had learned his lesson and would not be disrespectful towards superior officers in the future. AFAIK, he did not repeat it afterwards.

Bad behavior. Senior personnel correct. Life moves on, Makattak. Believe it or not, this has occurred since the Roman Legions. Officers and NCOs failing to proper instruct and LEAD their troops is a failure on their part. I will concede that the military has often binded the hands of officers/NCOs with rules written by bureaucrats with no field experience, often as extreme reactions to officers/NCOs doing something stupid.


Bad behavior is only one of the problems I am concerned about. Men protect women. Whether it is coded into our DNA or merely a product of our culture, the natural inclination for men is to put the welfare of a female above their own.

It may be possible through significant conditioning to suppress that instinct (or learned behavior- I'm betting instinct though.) I do not know what unintended consequences will arise should the military succeed in suppressing that instinct, but I also think that given there is very little benefit (*I would say no benefit, but I'll cede that people will feel better about themselves) to allowing women into combat and combat situations, I would rather the military not experiment with supressing said instinct when we know very little about the costs.

And that's not "bad behavior" that is non-optimal behavior (at least non-optimal if we are foolish enough to put women into battle when there is currently no need to do so) that can get a soldier or a unit killed. That is not even dealing with the issues of fraternization or other such problems.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Ranger School to Accept Females
« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2012, 02:30:54 PM »
in a civilian job when we lower standards to hire a woman no one dies

"women are perfidious bitches"

YES
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

makattak

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Re: Ranger School to Accept Females
« Reply #40 on: May 29, 2012, 02:36:10 PM »
I should also note that I'm quite certain that the military will do no such thing as suppressing men's instincts and the plan is simply to ignore all the problems that arise from combining the sexes.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Fitz

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Re: Ranger School to Accept Females
« Reply #41 on: May 29, 2012, 02:46:01 PM »
I should also note that I'm quite certain that the military will do no such thing as suppressing men's instincts and the plan is simply to ignore all the problems that arise from combining the sexes.

This is precisely my concern.

Done RIGHT, the integration of women in combat roles could work.

Done RIGHT.

What will happen instead, is that women will be allowed to get through infantry school passing the female APFT, will be given allowances on long field problems to get showered and cleaned up while their male counterparts stay out and suck it up, and will be treated differently. The methods of maintaining discipline in an infantry unit will very quickly lead to a woman crying "unfair" and claiming that she is being hazed, mistreaded, etc, even though it's an accepted and proven way to maintain control of an infantry soldier and his buddies. This will create problems not only by lowering the "toughness" standard that is applied to nearly every infantry unit (for example, many infantry units will put you on remedial PT for not scoring 270 on the male standard), but also by creating resentment amongst the males who will almost certainly perceive such things as "the chain of command being soft on those females."

This is a terrible thing to happen in a military unit, ESPECIALLY one that's destined for close combat.
Fitz

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Re: Ranger School to Accept Females
« Reply #42 on: May 29, 2012, 02:50:19 PM »
An interesting read:

http://thesoldiersload.com/2012/05/24/women-do-not-belong-in-the-infantry/

Yes. It's also plain wrong, as I've posted about before.

I do not know what is wrong with their training program that these women cannot do a six-mile hike without heavy guns and ammo. But it has nothing to do with them being women. How do I know that?

I know that because IDF's Caracal Battalion is composed entirely of women, and these women are all volunteers, and at the completion of their course they must walk a 7.5 mile hike, with their own machineguns, gear, etc. (there are no men to carry it for them).

There may be reasons why women should not be able to serve in the military. Their physical fitness is not one of them.

Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Fitz

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Re: Ranger School to Accept Females
« Reply #43 on: May 29, 2012, 02:52:40 PM »
Yes. It's also plain wrong, as I've posted about before.

I do not know what is wrong with their training program that these women cannot do a six-mile hike without heavy guns and ammo. But it has nothing to do with them being women. How do I know that?

I know that because IDF's Caracal Battalion is composed entirely of women, and these women are all volunteers, and at the completion of their course they must walk a 7.5 mile hike, with their own machineguns, gear, etc. (there are no men to carry it for them).

There may be reasons why women should not be able to serve in the military. Their physical fitness is not one of them.



It may not be one of them for an israeli female. It is one of them for an American female. Cultural differences are not easily overcome. It has nothing to do with the training program, Fort Benning's program is very effective. The non-infantry MOS BCT standards are much different, and women as a whole STILL have much higher washout rates in BCT than their male counterparts.

Source: being a drill sergeant in a co-ed BCT post

I would wager that making an entire battalion of american combat troops out of females would be a much different task.

For comparison, though, Infantry school requires a 25 mile roadmarch at the end. I believe this may have been shortened to JUST 18 now that we wear body armor through the whole thing, and the "eagle run" which is a 40 minute 5 miler. Show me a battalion of American women who are willing and able to do that, and I'm all for it. However, the reality of the US military reflects something entirely different.
Fitz

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I have reached a conclusion regarding every member of this forum.
I no longer respect any of you. I hope the following offends you as much as this thread has offended me:
You are all awful people. I mean this *expletive deleted*ing seriously.

-MicroBalrog

RevDisk

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Re: Ranger School to Accept Females
« Reply #44 on: May 29, 2012, 02:56:12 PM »
This is precisely my concern.

Done RIGHT, the integration of women in combat roles could work.

Done RIGHT.

What will happen instead, is that women will be allowed to get through infantry school passing the female APFT, will be given allowances on long field problems to get showered and cleaned up while their male counterparts stay out and suck it up, and will be treated differently. The methods of maintaining discipline in an infantry unit will very quickly lead to a woman crying "unfair" and claiming that she is being hazed, mistreaded, etc, even though it's an accepted and proven way to maintain control of an infantry soldier and his buddies. This will create problems not only by lowering the "toughness" standard that is applied to nearly every infantry unit (for example, many infantry units will put you on remedial PT for not scoring 270 on the male standard), but also by creating resentment amongst the males who will almost certainly perceive such things as "the chain of command being soft on those females."

This is a terrible thing to happen in a military unit, ESPECIALLY one that's destined for close combat.

I agree with this post entirely. Smart thing to do would probably be single sex units. If they pass, they pass. If they don't, they don't. We waste more cash per F-22 or F-35 than an entire infantry battalion would cost for a couple years.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

lupinus

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Re: Ranger School to Accept Females
« Reply #45 on: May 29, 2012, 04:42:21 PM »
I agree with this post entirely. Smart thing to do would probably be single sex units. If they pass, they pass. If they don't, they don't. We waste more cash per F-22 or F-35 than an entire infantry battalion would cost for a couple years.
Perhaps I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm also willing to bet there's a lot more usefulness in an F22 or F35 then the just for S's&G's of an all female battalion.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

RevDisk

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Re: Ranger School to Accept Females
« Reply #46 on: May 29, 2012, 04:53:58 PM »
Perhaps I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm also willing to bet there's a lot more usefulness in an F22 or F35 then the just for S's&G's of an all female battalion.

Going out on a limb, I highly doubt that. If an all-female battalion simply got used to mow lawns and rake dirt at some FOB, they'd be more combat useful than the entire F-35 program. My impression that raking dirt and operating a floor buffer is more important than combat. Because I spent more time cleaning and raking dirt than I EVER did learning how to kill people and break things.

Think we've spent $300+ billion on the F-35, with no combat deployments. Actually, don't think there has been a single F-22 combat deployment either? That's another $100 billion, and has a problem with cutting off the oxygen in flight.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

lupinus

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Re: Ranger School to Accept Females
« Reply #47 on: May 29, 2012, 05:13:13 PM »
Going out on a limb, I highly doubt that. If an all-female battalion simply got used to mow lawns and rake dirt at some FOB, they'd be more combat useful than the entire F-35 program.
Given the F-35 program, you're probably right now that I think about it.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

RevDisk

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Re: Ranger School to Accept Females
« Reply #48 on: May 29, 2012, 05:21:28 PM »
Given the F-35 program, you're probably right now that I think about it.

Let me put it this way. Contractor A forgot to include the weight of the wiring in the F-35 when they gave it to Contractor B. When you use those numbers to put the engine in an aircraft, that is a problem. This single issue cost the equivalent of a battalion's annual budget for the next hundred years.

Your original comment is more insulting than you probably meant it to be, Lupinus.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

BridgeRunner

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Re: Ranger School to Accept Females
« Reply #49 on: May 29, 2012, 05:31:50 PM »
Now if that ain't sig-worthy...

I do feel a sig coming on.  I think I'll use the whole thing though.  =D