Author Topic: Egypt and Libya embassy attacks  (Read 46075 times)

agricola

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Re: Egypt and Libya embassy attacks
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2012, 07:57:00 AM »
Just invading the embassy is an act of war.

There needs to be a special level of response for killing an American ambassador.

For example, the immediate and permanent removal of your city from the world and a demand for the immediate and unconditional surrender of your country.

The problem with Libya is that these clowns are almost certainly not from the government, or the people, or even from the city.  The US should sit the Libyan government down, explain that they have just won a free house cleaning which will take place immediately, then get to work using the traditional means of aerial death robots and scary men on the ground with big guns. 

They - the Libyan Government, and lets face it the Libyan people, will probably be grateful.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Egypt and Libya embassy attacks
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2012, 08:02:11 AM »
Quote
They - the Libyan Government, and lets face it the Libyan people, will probably be grateful.


More likely it would be portrayed as American imperialism and a wanton, unprovoked attack on innocent muslims.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Egypt and Libya embassy attacks
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2012, 08:24:03 AM »
Jimmy failed in the desert, and Obama did get OBL. He deserves credit for that.

Besides, BHO couldn't not greenlight the mission on OBL.  It was a purely political calculation.  Look hard, claim responsibility.
Bush said it wasn't a top priority to run down OBL.  Why? Because dismantling Al Queda's ability to make war was a top responsibility.  Something I agreed with him on.  Knock the organization out of the fight.  Taking out OBL is retribution, but it doesn't gaurantee that AQ won't be back knocking on our door.
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Re: Egypt and Libya embassy attacks
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2012, 09:02:07 AM »
We've condemned the guilty parties in the strongest terms for their misuse of freedom of speech to insult Islam and Allah's Prophet Mohammad.

 
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

makattak

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Re: Egypt and Libya embassy attacks
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2012, 09:28:26 AM »
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57511043/assault-on-u.s-consulate-in-benghazi-leaves-4-dead-including-u.s-ambassador-j-christopher-stevens/

Quote
He said Stevens, 52, and other officials were moved to a second building, deemed safer, after the initial wave of protests at the consulate. According to al-Sharef, members of the Libyan security team seem to have indicated to the protesters the building to which the American officials had been relocated, and that building then came under attack.


BURN THE CITY TO THE GROUND. Salt the earth.
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Ron

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Re: Egypt and Libya embassy attacks
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2012, 09:31:29 AM »
Why doesn't the President get on TV and flat out state: "that any further attacks on our embassies will be met with overwhelming violence and deadly force. If any country objects we will gladly remove our embassy and terminate all foreign aid effective immediately"?  
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Fitz

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Re: Egypt and Libya embassy attacks
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2012, 09:45:49 AM »
Why doesn't the President get on TV and flat out state: "that any further attacks on our embassies will be met with overwhelming violence and deadly force. If any country objects we will gladly remove our embassy and terminate all foreign aid effective immediately"?  

Because this is the administration of appeasement
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makattak

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Re: Egypt and Libya embassy attacks
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2012, 10:16:36 AM »
I'm not posting the picture because I have no desire to show that barbarity, but the murdered Ambassador was paraded through the streets.

So much rage right now.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

MillCreek

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Re: Egypt and Libya embassy attacks
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2012, 10:24:08 AM »
A question: is the US Consulate in Libya in a separate building or compound that can be defended, or is it in an office building with other tenants?  There are a number of consulates in Seattle, but they are all in office towers.

Because as I read the story about Libya, I was wondering where were the Marines?  Are Marines only stationed in an embassy, as opposed to a consulate, or was the Libyan consulate not amenable to being defended?  I know that some posters here have strong feelings on ROE of the Marines, but I have to think that if a mob with machine guns and RPGs is opening fire on American personnel, the Marines can fire back.

PS: I just read the CBS article linked above:  Al-Sharef said two U.S. Marines sent to Benghazi when the clash erupted were shot and killed by the well-armed protesters. It was not immediately clear whether the Marines were part of Stevens' security detail.  It is too bad that a company was not sent.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 10:39:37 AM by MillCreek »
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Jocassee

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Re: Egypt and Libya embassy attacks
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2012, 10:25:46 AM »
We've condemned the guilty parties in the strongest terms for their misuse of freedom of speech to insult Islam and Allah's Prophet Mohammad.

 

This.
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brimic

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Re: Egypt and Libya embassy attacks
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2012, 10:42:32 AM »
Quote
"I do condemn the cowardly act of attacking the US consulate and the killing of Mr. Stevens and the other diplomats," Libya's deputy prime minister, Mustafa Bushagar, said via Twitter.

"Amb. Stevens was a friend of Libya and we are shocked at the attacks on the US consulate in Benghazi," Bushagar said. "I condemn these barbaric acts in the strongest possible terms. This is an attack on America, Libya and free people everywhere."


Its pretty sad when a Libyan can come up with a much more tersely worded condemnation of the act than obama can.
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Jamie B

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Re: Egypt and Libya embassy attacks
« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2012, 10:44:22 AM »
I'm not posting the picture because I have no desire to show that barbarity, but the murdered Ambassador was paraded through the streets.

So much rage right now.

Same thing happened in Mogadishu with 3 of our servicemen and we did not blow them off the map.

We should have had the common sense to get the Ambassador out earlier.

I am angry at our government for not removing our folks a lot earlier.
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birdman

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Re: Egypt and Libya embassy attacks
« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2012, 10:51:56 AM »
A question: is the US Consulate in Libya in a separate building or compound that can be defended, or is it in an office building with other tenants?  There are a number of consulates in Seattle, but they are all in office towers.

Because as I read the story about Libya, I was wondering where were the Marines?  Are Marines only stationed in an embassy, as opposed to a consulate, or was the Libyan consulate not amenable to being defended?  I know that some posters here have strong feelings on ROE of the Marines, but I have to think that if a mob with machine guns and RPGs is opening fire on American personnel, the Marines can fire back.

While an embassy is considered sovereign territory of its county (not the host country) a consulate (while in many cases, housed in the same building) is simply where consular officers operate (which may include -the- ambassador for that host country) and may or may not be considered sovereign territory.  In the case of Libya, the embassy is in tripoli, and this was a consulate.  In either case, Libya was a signatory of the various treaties (IIRC) defining the protections of diplomatic officers, and thus these actions shoud be considered really serious.  In general, an attack on diplomatic officers, their missions, consulates, and even more significantly, an embassy, is considered an act of aggression against that county.  We have responded with military force in the past (cruise missile strikes after the embassy bombings, severe sanctions and eventual failed response followed by very clear military threats after the embassy in Tehran was captured, etc) by both highly liberal (carter), moderately liberal (Clinton) and conservative (Reagan's clear statements as president elect to Iran) presidents.

This is clearly an attack on US interests, citizens, and what should be considered "untouchable" diplomatic personnel and facilities.  We should respond with AT LEAST political and economic sanctions, determine who is responsible, and preferably, a proportional military response.  At the least, libyian diplomats shoud be expelled or declared persona non grata until those responsible are punished, and reparations must be paid by the host country.   I guarantee other countries would expect nothing less than reparative actions if militants here attacked their ambassador to the US.

Anything other than this, INCLUDING our administrations current "stern talking too" is insufficient and creates an international environment that is very dangerous--host countries knew in the past that they bore the burden of protecting diplomats in their countries, as to do otherwise puts their own people at risk AMD limits the ability of countries to interact diplomatically, and showing weakness in this case merely puts our personnel in further danger.

Sure, the administration has ordered more security for our personnel...but under what ROE?  Say the new ambassador (or subsidary diplomatic credential carrying personnel who may not be protected as well as e ambassador him/herself) comes under attack and the security fights back and kills civilians...what then?  I bet this administration would pay some reparations then to the host county.

Attacks on diplomats are worse than attacks in random individuals, as it is an attack on the basic institution of civilized international diplomacy.

We should respond SEVERELY.  Hell, even Clinton had the gonads to tomahawk the crap out of those responsible for the embassy bombings.

Worse still, aren't these the same folks our administration "supported" by "leading from behind"?

roo_ster

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Re: Egypt and Libya embassy attacks
« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2012, 11:41:32 AM »
"We'll leave you alone if you leave us alone.  Continue to make pests of yourselves against the rest of world and there will be no other option but to expunge the infestation that is you from the planet."

This.

I would not care what they rail about in their cess pool of a country, but they insist on threatening us and our allies.  On top of that, they fund groups that attack us and our allies. 

Let that stuff stand unanswered and you'll get more of it.
Regards,

roo_ster

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grampster

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Re: Egypt and Libya embassy attacks
« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2012, 11:42:15 AM »
Why doesn't the President get on TV and flat out state: "that any further attacks on our embassies will be met with overwhelming violence and deadly force. If any country objects we will gladly remove our embassy and terminate all foreign aid effective immediately"?  

Obama is too busy scrounging up some of his "stash" of our tax dollars to send to the Muslim Brotherhood to replace the ammo they expended killing our people. But, only after getting back from the golf course.
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Scout26

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Re: Egypt and Libya embassy attacks
« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2012, 12:19:22 PM »
Pull out our folks and turn sand into glass.

We've got all these nukes for a reason.


(Oh, and it will send "a strong message" to Iran, North Korea, and anyone else that even thinks about screwing with us.)
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


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for the motherland.

SADShooter

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Re: Egypt and Libya embassy attacks
« Reply #41 on: September 12, 2012, 12:22:59 PM »
Carthago delenda est.
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longeyes

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Re: Egypt and Libya embassy attacks
« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2012, 12:45:54 PM »
Because this is the administration of appeasement

Because this, the modern West, is a culture of appeasement.

There are only two real political parties: the brave and the cowardly.  The rest is words, words, words.

The "smart girls"--Clinton, Power, Rice, Jarrett--have brought us to this.  But we should thank them for making clear what it all comes down to in the end.

Meanwhile, I don't think either of these two men should be in the White House.
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Hutch

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Re: Egypt and Libya embassy attacks
« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2012, 12:47:21 PM »
A gift to the Obama campaign, should they choose to exploit it.  Gives them cover for an October surprise.  Wish the Iran thing weren't bubbling so merrily at this time.
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longeyes

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Re: Egypt and Libya embassy attacks
« Reply #44 on: September 12, 2012, 12:48:11 PM »
The Left always speaks in sweeping generalities about "the collective."  They certainly do about anyone rightward of themselves.

But with Islam...  It's "just the few," the "bad few" who are the problem.  Sure, Hill, keep telling yourself that, and keep those operators close.

I hope this event shows America--reaches them in the gut--about what the hell has gone wrong.
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longeyes

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Re: Egypt and Libya embassy attacks
« Reply #45 on: September 12, 2012, 12:50:13 PM »
The modern problem is intimidation.  We are afraid of Islam, too many of us.  The measure is not in how many die in half-force war efforts or are killed by drones.  The measure is in what we are unwilling to see, know, and do to save ourselves and our culture.  There's a psychotic bully loose; there are those who know what to do and those who don't or won't.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Egypt and Libya embassy attacks
« Reply #46 on: September 12, 2012, 12:56:19 PM »
"Our" side is claiming Libyan security forces fought against the attackers and carried Stevens' to medical aid.
International reports are saying Libyan security forces pointed out the targets and tht Stevens' body was carried through the streets in triumph.

Guess who I don't trust.

If nothing else we need to enact ROE that include shoot to obliterate/liquify anyone or any group that threatens our people in instances like that. Hell if they still do it like they did 20 years ago the marines probably weren't even issued actual live bullets to put in their evil bang makers.
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Blakenzy

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Re: Egypt and Libya embassy attacks
« Reply #47 on: September 12, 2012, 12:59:00 PM »
I can't bring myself to be shocked.. pissed maybe, but not outraged.

What else can you expect to happen after you assisted ex Al-Qaeda types in taking over the country? That's who we put in power, knowingly, because it was convenient at the time, and now it bites us in the ass. Now Libya is a giant Islamic extremist, tribal, Al-Q militia mish-mash screw-up courtesy of NATOs "humanitarian" :laugh: mission. Ain't blowback a B**ch?
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longeyes

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Re: Egypt and Libya embassy attacks
« Reply #48 on: September 12, 2012, 01:13:24 PM »
"Smart diplomacy" is code.  Code for Creating the Universal Caliphate.  One state at a time.

Now if Romney had the gene for truth...

Meanwhile, there's ample opportunity for candlelit prayer vigils, grief counseling, and reaching out while our High One tells us "justice will be done" and Libyans are really our friends.
"Domari nolo."

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Jamie B

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Re: Egypt and Libya embassy attacks
« Reply #49 on: September 12, 2012, 01:15:33 PM »
Besides, BHO couldn't not greenlight the mission on OBL.  It was a purely political calculation.  Look hard, claim responsibility.
Bush said it wasn't a top priority to run down OBL.  Why? Because dismantling Al Queda's ability to make war was a top responsibility.  Something I agreed with him on.  Knock the organization out of the fight.  Taking out OBL is retribution, but it doesn't gaurantee that AQ won't be back knocking on our door.
It is purely retribution, and BHO does deserve the credit.
You can rationalize that OBL was no more important than a mugger, but I do not share that view.
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