LAPD cop gone rogue?

[Fitz]

Still four years old.

Still irrelevant to the truth that the LAPD has a history of burying disciplinary issues within its ranks.


Try harder.

I suppose a survey saying that people approve of obama negates evidence of his shady activities?

[drewtam]

unlike you i don't know yet. i know that the 2 "asians" weren't asian.

do tell me  what exactly do you know?

I know that the LAPD shot unarmed innocent people, twice. I know that is automatically morally wrong, (possibly criminal) and should receive direct personal punishment. The level of punishment can be mitigated by certain evidence and circumstances, but will never excuse the basic fact, they shot unarmed innocent people and this is morally and legally wrong doing.

But I don't feel the need to mince words, avoid direct statements, and try to reframe the argument to some discussion of whether all US military is always held to the same standard.


How about you? Still haven't answered the direct question...
Are you saying that if military folks shoot the wrong person and don't get punished, then police ought to be able to shoot the wrong people and not be punished?
[This very first question has nothing to do with any mitigating circumstances.]

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

this guys not as in touch as you but hes trying
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-0210-rice-dorner-lapd-20130209,0,3613525.story

[Fitz]

Asking oneself "what would I have done" is an inherently flawed approach. If I was a cop, and someone was targeting me, it's still my duty to gain PID before I engage.


Another thing: one report said they rammed a car, then fired into the car. At that point, what hostile act did the target commit that justifies complete removal of due process, assuming that car turned out to be the bad guy?>

[Fitz]

this guys not as in touch as you but hes trying
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-0210-rice-dorner-lapd-20130209,0,3613525.story

Stop drive by posting and answer for your opinions, please. What, precisely, does this article bring to the table? I say again, the LAPD may very well be moving in the right direction. It does not negate any statements I've made in this thread.

Here's a video that proves my point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

How about you? Still haven't answered the direct question...
Are you saying that if military folks shoot the wrong person and don't get punished, then police ought to be able to shoot the wrong people and not be punished?
[This very first question has nothing to do with any mitigating circumstances.]



no   what i was doing was replying to the usual suspects comparisons of how the military treats an incident like this

[Fitz]

How about you? Still haven't answered the direct question...
Are you saying that if military folks shoot the wrong person and don't get punished, then police ought to be able to shoot the wrong people and not be punished?
[This very first question has nothing to do with any mitigating circumstances.]



no   what i was doing was replying to the usual suspects comparisons of how the military treats an incident like this

And, in doing so, you have refuted none of what we said.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

That happens all the time and gets little attention. No, what I meant was targeting representatives of the State, showing them that after all, they are just as vulnerable as anyone else. It is disconcerting for those in power. That's why the bounty is so high.

yea the la dodgers are minions of the state

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/dorner-manhunt-usc-chief-dodgers-among-reward-donors.html

[AZRedhawk44]

I went for a run today.  4 miles.

At about 1.5 miles in, I'm running through my neighborhood and I see a BLACK NISSAN TITAN with a LIFTKIT, and a LARGE BLACK MAN at the steering wheel.

I didn't shoot him.

 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

mighta been a million bucks

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

And, in doing so, you have refuted none of what we said.

you can't refute opinion or speculation.

you could on the other hand refute the facts in that survey

i mean we hear a bit about the lapd from folk no in la.  i gotta admit i think i'm gonna give the civil rights lawyer in la more weight than most internet speculation.  and i value the opinion of actual residents of la over that of someone in va

[Fitz]

you can't refute opinion or speculation.

you could on the other hand refute the facts in that survey

i mean we hear a bit about the lapd from folk no in la.  i gotta admit i think i'm gonna give the civil rights lawyer in la more weight than most internet speculation.  and i value the opinion of actual residents of la over that of someone in va

You're not getting it.

The stuff you posted does not in any way indicate something counter to my assertion that the LAPD has a history of burying scandal.

This is not opinion, this is not speculation. This is fact.

FYI, i spent a significant portion of my life in southern california. I moved away for pretty good reasons, not the least of which was the increasing militarization and aggressiveness of the police.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

You're not getting it.

The stuff you posted does not in any way indicate something counter to my assertion that the LAPD has a history of burying scandal.

This is not opinion, this is not speculation. This is fact.

which scandals were those?  there is irony here

[Fitz]

which scandals were those?  there is irony here

Are you serious?

You can't possibly be.


Ok, fine. I'm done arguing with you. You win.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Are you serious?

You can't possibly be.


Ok, fine. I'm done arguing with you. You win.

you saw the irony in time? Drats

[Fitz]

It seems your method of arguing your point is to thoroughly disconnect with reality, then when people give up, proclaim yourself the victor.

It's not a very good method.

[KD5NRH]

Collateral damage happens in war. Are you really saying that police going after a nutjob are prosecuting a war in california? Guess what? Standards for collateral damage for cops should be much, much different than a pilot of an attack helicopter in a war.

OK, so what would the procedure be if the pilot of an attack helicopter, in time of peace, while transiting over neutral territory, decided to shoot up a few civilians because the had terrorist-like beards?

I'm guessing it wouldn't be paid leave and a sham of an investigation.

[KD5NRH]

unlike you i don't know yet. i know that the 2 "asians" weren't asian.

Carranza and Hernandez aren't Korean names?

[Fitz]

OK, so what would the procedure be if the pilot of an attack helicopter, in time of peace, while transiting over neutral territory, decided to shoot up a few civilians because the had terrorist-like beards?

I'm guessing it wouldn't be paid leave and a sham of an investigation.

I guess it depends on whether or not someone did a public survey indicating that the Army was more "approved" by the public than it is now.

[KD5NRH]

yea the la dodgers are minions of the state

Sounds more like a lot of people with cash saying "let's get this s___ stopped before the cops mistake any of us for the guy."

Besides, aren't donations to something like this tax deductible?  I doubt it would be all that hard to raise $1M from people in LA who could really use a big deduction, especially now, when their minds will be on this year's taxes while they're looking at last year's bill.

[RevDisk]

It seems your method of arguing your point is to thoroughly disconnect with reality, then when people give up, proclaim yourself the victor.

It's not a very good method.

If it makes you feel better, Fitz, the overwhelming majority of folks here agree with you more or less. Don't let it get your blood pressure up if one guy is messing with you.

To sum it up, LA is not a combat zone. Even if it was, failing to correctly identify a target prior to trying to kill them is a generally frowned upon. It can be grey, admittedly, but this is edging towards the "not cool" side of grey.

[Fitz]

If it makes you feel better, Fitz, the overwhelming majority of folks here agree with you more or less. Don't let it get your blood pressure up if one guy is messing with you.

To sum it up, LA is not a combat zone. Even if it was, failing to correctly identify a target prior to trying to kill them is a generally frowned upon. It can be grey, admittedly, but this is edging towards the "not cool" side of grey.

It doesn't make me feel better. The fact that there are people in the world who can argue in favor of such terrible target discipline makes me upset. Citing officer safety, or fears because they're being "targeted," to justify firing into an unidentified vehicle, is terrifying.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

It doesn't make me feel better. The fact that there are people in the world who can argue in favor of such terrible target discipline makes me upset. Citing officer safety, or fears because they're being "targeted," to justify firing into an unidentified vehicle, is terrifying.

i don't see anyone arguing in favor of terrible target discipline.  i do see folks saying some might be a bit premature in their judgement.   ymmv

[RevDisk]

It doesn't make me feel better. The fact that there are people in the world who can argue in favor of such terrible target discipline makes me upset. Citing officer safety, or fears because they're being "targeted," to justify firing into an unidentified vehicle, is terrifying.

And near everyone concurs with sloppy targeting makes for a bad day for everyone. I was in an artillery unit. We had nightmares about slipping a single number out of hundreds of them.

i don't see anyone arguing in favor of terrible target discipline.  i do see folks saying some might be a bit premature in their judgement.   ymmv

Ah, dude? You are/were. I'm not saying you wanted to, and you may not have intended to send that message, but you did. Repeatedly. In great detail. And very firmly. You stopped just short of chiseling it into granite or marble slabs and coming down the mountain side with them. I'm not saying you're a horrible person or whatnot. You may have given an impression you didn't perhaps intend to give.

[Gewehr98]

Before this smells totally of Summer's Eve, let's take a wee breather and revisit this again at a later date.

This shouldn't be so polarizing, IMHO.