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Author Topic: Sequester - "Make it Hurt!"  (Read 2652 times)

Ben

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Sequester - "Make it Hurt!"
« on: March 06, 2013, 10:07:30 AM »

This is more confirmation to what I have been hearing from other fed.gov workers. I think I mentioned elsewhere that one colleague in DoD - where some branches are going to "Furlough Fridays" - had specifically asked if once a month he could swap Friday for another day due to ongoing critical work he had going on. He was specifically told no, and the phrase that was used was, "We have to make it hurt as much as possible". So this is definitely leaking down from somewhere high up. I really hope it gets more news coverage than just Fox and conservative blogs. It's an affront to all taxpayers no matter what their political persuasion.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/06/leaked-email-adds-fuel-to-claims-white-house-playing-politics-over-impact-cuts/
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Sequester - "Make it Hurt!"
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2013, 10:10:30 AM »

Oh teh noez.

Government NOT working for me.

Whatever will I do.


Gigglesnort.

My inner anarchist was all giddy back in '94, too.  And I was only 16. =D

We truly don't need them, at all.
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Sequester - "Make it Hurt!"
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2013, 10:25:00 AM »

I see that Obama has discontinued public tours of the White House. How much does that save us compared to the amount he gave to the Egyptian government recently?

SADShooter

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Re: Sequester - "Make it Hurt!"
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2013, 10:36:09 AM »

I heard something about Capitol tours being suspended. My first thought was "Washington Monument Syndrome" or whatever the term is for putting vital functions front and center for cuts. Second notion was: can't tours be run by volunteer docents with minimal paid staff, combined with nominal visitor fees for breakeven, if they aren't already?
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Ben

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Re: Sequester - "Make it Hurt!"
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2013, 10:49:03 AM »

I heard something about Capitol tours being suspended. My first thought was "Washington Monument Syndrome" or whatever the term is for putting vital functions front and center for cuts. Second notion was: can't tours be run by volunteer docents with minimal paid staff, combined with nominal visitor fees for breakeven, if they aren't already?

I think the syndrome is what most of this will be. Reducing public access, which is such a small amount of the budget that it's practically immeasurable. You won't see any cuts in entitlement programs, you'll mostly see the "hurt" in things that annoy and inconvenience people who actually pay taxes. My concern is stuff like screwing with defense to prove a point.
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Fitz

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Re: Sequester - "Make it Hurt!"
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2013, 10:57:03 AM »

I think the syndrome is what most of this will be. Reducing public access, which is such a small amount of the budget that it's practically immeasurable. You won't see any cuts in entitlement programs, you'll mostly see the "hurt" in things that annoy and inconvenience people who actually pay taxes. My concern is stuff like screwing with defense to prove a point.

You and AZRedhawk will be happy to know that the air interdiction pilots here (the ones I previously mentioned who actually provide useful service, like catching kiddie smugglers) are not flying.



There's lots of waste in government, sure. But one does not cure cancer by taking a small chunk from each square inch of the body.

What sequestration is actually doing, is cutting the pay of hard working folks, while not actually decreasing the deficit. For every lazy GS15, there are many GS-5s or contractors who are going to be very, very hurt by a 20 percent pay cut, and who generally are hard working folks.

I'd be happier if they axed entire departments. I'd rather be fired completely than take a 20 percent cut. One, it would actually cut meaningful amounts from the deficit, and two, I can find another job.
Fitz

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dogmush

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Re: Sequester - "Make it Hurt!"
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2013, 11:10:05 AM »

Without going into too much detail on a public forum...

I am already scheduled for 50 or so days LWOP this fiscal year.  I have been trying to work with my agency to take my 22 days furlough in there so I can maintain mission readiness on the .mil equipment my shop maintains.  The equipment my shop is responsible for has several real world missions to complete this fiscal year.

I am getting pushback from above that on that request.  The agency wants to see a 20% reduction in mission readiness to go along with the man-hour reduction.

Ben

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Re: Sequester - "Make it Hurt!"
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2013, 11:20:11 AM »

You and AZRedhawk will be happy to know that the air interdiction pilots here (the ones I previously mentioned who actually provide useful service, like catching kiddie smugglers) are not flying.

Just for clarity, because I'm not sure if you were kidding or not, I'm not in the AZ camp. Your concerns are my concerns.
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Gewehr98

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Re: Sequester - "Make it Hurt!"
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2013, 11:20:16 AM »

That was the standard MO in my organization come budget drill time, too.

Show those who distribute appropriated funds that the cuts will adversely affect core mission capabilities, (the "all-or-none" proposition) so that they look elsewhere to make the cuts.

I'll have to admit, it did cut down significantly on mission creep and unfunded requests for "nice-to-have" stuff.

Fewer airshows didn't bother me.  When they start planning for fewer manpower billets, or sending a complete airframe or two to Davis-Monthan, that's when it hits home.

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cordex

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Re: Sequester - "Make it Hurt!"
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2013, 11:34:01 AM »

You and AZRedhawk will be happy to know that the air interdiction pilots here (the ones I previously mentioned who actually provide useful service, like catching kiddie smugglers) are not flying.
We have more government than we can afford - for good and bad.
There's lots of waste in government, sure. But one does not cure cancer by taking a small chunk from each square inch of the body.
When you're talking about government, poorly planned cuts are better than no cuts at all.
That said, as I understand it sequester wasn't ever really intended to take place.  It was intended as a kind of threat to force lawmakers to come up with well-considered cuts.  They chose not to, so ...

I fully expect this to result in Congress restoring funding to everyone and increased spending in the end.  Government employees will cheer and we'll continue to build up debt - for as long as that will last.
What sequestration is actually doing, is cutting the pay of hard working folks, while not actually decreasing the deficit. For every lazy GS15, there are many GS-5s or contractors who are going to be very, very hurt by a 20 percent pay cut, and who generally are hard working folks.
Things are rough all over.  I lost 12% of my pay back in 2008.  Of course, I still had to come in every day.  And pick up the slack of those of the team that were fired.  And relatively speaking my benefits suck.

I think cuts should be made more rationally, but no matter how they are made there are plenty of good, hardworking people that will lose their jobs or lose pay.  That someone, somewhere's ox is getting gored isn't in and of itself a reason to not make cuts.

Fitz

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Re: Sequester - "Make it Hurt!"
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2013, 11:35:24 AM »

Just for clarity, because I'm not sure if you were kidding or not, I'm not in the AZ camp. Your concerns are my concerns.

I know



Border patrol, by the way, apparently doesn't have a lot of positions that are exempt. The air interdiction pilots, BP agents, and some of the SAC guys who monitor the RVSS cameras along the border will be getting furloughed.

Best part is, the coyotes know this. Our southern border guys are picking up chatter about the sequestration, and furloughs affecting patrol schedules.

Fitz

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I no longer respect any of you. I hope the following offends you as much as this thread has offended me:
You are all awful people. I mean this *expletive deleted*ing seriously.

-MicroBalrog

Fitz

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Re: Sequester - "Make it Hurt!"
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2013, 11:36:51 AM »

We have more government than we can afford - for good and bad.When you're talking about government, poorly planned cuts are better than no cuts at all.
That said, as I understand it sequester wasn't ever really intended to take place.  It was intended as a kind of threat to force lawmakers to come up with well-considered cuts.  They chose not to, so ...

I fully expect this to result in Congress restoring funding to everyone and increased spending in the end.  Government employees will cheer and we'll continue to build up debt - for as long as that will last.Things are rough all over.  I lost 12% of my pay back in 2008.  Of course, I still had to come in every day.  And pick up the slack of those of the team that were fired.  And relatively speaking my benefits suck.

I think cuts should be made more rationally, but no matter how they are made there are plenty of good, hardworking people that will lose their jobs or lose pay.  That someone, somewhere's ox is getting gored isn't in and of itself a reason to not make cuts.


Yeah, my point though is, if we're going to hurt hardworking folks, we need to at least be making meaningful cuts.

Right now, we're hurting people financially who cannot afford it, for almost no gain.
Fitz

---------------
I have reached a conclusion regarding every member of this forum.
I no longer respect any of you. I hope the following offends you as much as this thread has offended me:
You are all awful people. I mean this *expletive deleted*ing seriously.

-MicroBalrog

SADShooter

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Re: Sequester - "Make it Hurt!"
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2013, 11:42:48 AM »


Yeah, my point though is, if we're going to hurt hardworking folks, we need to at least be making meaningful cuts.

Right now, we're hurting people financially who cannot afford it, for almost no perceived political gain.

FTFY, but not for the better. =(
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TommyGunn

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Re: Sequester - "Make it Hurt!"
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2013, 12:09:29 PM »

This sort of ***** is foisted on taxpayers at every level of gov.   If you vote to reduce your city's imposed sales tax, instead of furloughing the fifth assistant librarian they'll furlough half the police and one third of the firefighters to "punish" the citizens for their temerity.
 [barf]
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longeyes

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Re: Sequester - "Make it Hurt!"
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2013, 02:17:46 PM »

This is in keeping with the general sadomasochistic tenor of extreme liberalism.
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longeyes

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Re: Sequester - "Make it Hurt!"
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2013, 02:22:04 PM »

You got a problem with Strap-On Politics?  We have elected our national dominatrix twice now.  Just enjoy it.
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cordex

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Re: Sequester - "Make it Hurt!"
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2013, 03:15:10 PM »

Yeah, my point though is, if we're going to hurt hardworking folks, we need to at least be making meaningful cuts.
We agree there.  But until the national credit card gets rejected there will never be meaningful cuts.

Right now, we're hurting people financially who cannot afford it, for almost no gain.
Ill conceived though this may be, is this not still a reduction in the cost of government?  Are we not saving money we'd otherwise have to borrow?  It isn't going to save the country, but what would?  If we were start cutting enough to realize some significant gain, I guarantee you that it would hurt a lot more people much more deeply than this sequester business ever will.

Any significant cut in government will hurt good, honest people financially who cannot afford it.  Every one of them considers their job (phony baloney or otherwise), program, welfare check, Social Security payout, grant, position, benefits, etc. to be necessary and important, and almost all rely heavily if not exclusively on the income.  Even eliminating the most bloated, mismanaged unnecessary projects in government would hurt some hard-working folks on the bottom who can't afford to lose their jobs.

This isn't - to use your earlier analogy - like curing cancer.  This is curing addiction, and withdrawal is never fun, even if it is necessary.

Fitz

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Re: Sequester - "Make it Hurt!"
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2013, 03:20:16 PM »

We agree there.  But until the national credit card gets rejected there will never be meaningful cuts.
Ill conceived though this may be, is this not still a reduction in the cost of government?  Are we not saving money we'd otherwise have to borrow?  It isn't going to save the country, but what would?  If we were start cutting enough to realize some significant gain, I guarantee you that it would hurt a lot more people much more deeply than this sequester business ever will.

Any significant cut in government will hurt good, honest people financially who cannot afford it.  Every one of them considers their job (phony baloney or otherwise), program, welfare check, Social Security payout, grant, position, benefits, etc. to be necessary and important, and almost all rely heavily if not exclusively on the income.  Even eliminating the most bloated, mismanaged unnecessary projects in government would hurt some hard-working folks on the bottom who can't afford to lose their jobs.

This isn't - to use your earlier analogy - like curing cancer.  This is curing addiction, and withdrawal is never fun, even if it is necessary.

To your point, i don't believe sequester IS causing us to spend less money. I believe, first of all, that through the magic of baseline budgeting, we're simply INCREASING spending LESS.

Second, i wholeheartedly believe that the sequester will table, maybe indefinately, any talks of meaningful cuts. They'll reach a deal , start back up again, and no one will make any progress on meaningful cuts.
Fitz

---------------
I have reached a conclusion regarding every member of this forum.
I no longer respect any of you. I hope the following offends you as much as this thread has offended me:
You are all awful people. I mean this *expletive deleted*ing seriously.

-MicroBalrog

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Sequester - "Make it Hurt!"
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2013, 03:24:06 PM »

To your point, i don't believe sequester IS causing us to spend less money.


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cordex

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Re: Sequester - "Make it Hurt!"
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2013, 03:58:26 PM »

To your point, i don't believe sequester IS causing us to spend less money. I believe, first of all, that through the magic of baseline budgeting, we're simply INCREASING spending LESS.
Yeah, I know that.  That's how all government "cuts" and "savings" work.  I'm not trying to defend baseline budgeting at all; I abhor the concept, but less increase is still better than more increase, n'est-ce pas?  This is nowhere near enough, but still a tiny step in the right direction, isn't it?

Second, i wholeheartedly believe that the sequester will table, maybe indefinately, any talks of meaningful cuts. They'll reach a deal , start back up again, and no one will make any progress on meaningful cuts.
Half right, anyway.  You are correct insomuch as the (Obama encouraged) weeping and gnashing of teeth associated with the sequester will result in a setback when it comes to meaningful cuts.  The other side is that it doesn't really matter where you make the cuts - the reaction by those who are cut will always be the same.  Small cuts made, affected parties make the cuts as painful and publicized as they possibly can, weeping, gnashing of teeth, issue becomes toxic, politicians back off, etc.

And that is why meaningful cuts will never happen - because as a country we (including most "conservatives") seem to believe that cuts must always be painless and never cause anyone any inconvenience, or if they do only to things we don't care about.

slingshot

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Re: Sequester - "Make it Hurt!"
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2013, 09:16:54 PM »

Even with the sequester, we're still going to spend more than last year.  The President and the White House is populated by political weasels.  Eric Holder is a weasel as demonstrated again with the drone strike authority on American citizens in America.  I guess you should expect no less from Holder considering his testimony with the Fast & Furious fiasco.  And yet....  he's still there which should tell you something about the President, his boss.
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