Author Topic: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.  (Read 166977 times)

Jamisjockey

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Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
« Reply #425 on: April 21, 2013, 07:17:28 AM »
The two real questions are of course was the lockdown really 'voluntary', and did police force their way into homes?

If the answers and yes and no, then this whole thing goes to show how most people would react to martial law.
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SteveS

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Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
« Reply #426 on: April 21, 2013, 08:47:38 AM »
They are.

Reports from Friday night were that interrogation would be handled by "Obama's" (not "the Federal") high level interrogation team, and that the circumstances of the case allow them to interrogate him without  reading him a Miranda warning. I'll have to dredge up the Miranda decision and re-read it ... I don't recall anything in the decision that said warnings must be given except when the President doesn't want to do so.

It depends on what they want to do with the information and how long they interrogate him.  Miranda doesn't prevent police from interrogating people, rather it prevents statements obtained this way from being introduced in court.  Police could still use information in their investigation and could still use physical evidence that was obtained.  There is also a public safety exception.  New York v. Quarles, 467 U.S. 649 (1984).

If it turns out that there is a lot of evidence against Tsarnaev, then they might not need his statements to convict him. 
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Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
« Reply #427 on: April 21, 2013, 08:51:56 AM »
It depends on what they want to do with the information and how long they interrogate him.  Miranda doesn't prevent police from interrogating people, rather it prevents statements obtained this way from being introduced in court.  Police could still use information in their investigation and could still use physical evidence that was obtained.  There is also a public safety exception.  New York v. Quarles, 467 U.S. 649 (1984).

If it turns out that there is a lot of evidence against Tsarnaev, then they might not need his statements to convict him. 

Thank god somebody understands what Miranda rights actually mean.

Not reading Miranda rights is actually common. *Gasp* I know. Unfortunately the vast majority of the public only has a view of Miranda as given by TV/movies and has little to no idea of how it works.

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Stand_watie

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Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
« Reply #428 on: April 21, 2013, 09:27:43 AM »
It depends on what they want to do with the information and how long they interrogate him.  Miranda doesn't prevent police from interrogating people, rather it prevents statements obtained this way from being introduced in court.  Police could still use information in their investigation and could still use physical evidence that was obtained.  There is also a public safety exception.  New York v. Quarles, 467 U.S. 649 (1984).

If it turns out that there is a lot of evidence against Tsarnaev, then they might not need his statements to convict him. 

I thought the same thing...perhaps even more so that they have plenty of evidence to convict him without a confession and making me question the point of them publically announcing that they aren't mirandizing him. Not mirandizing him would perhaps help them get him to talk and help them catch bigger terroristic fish, but is the point of announcing it to say "Batches, we don't neeed no steeenking batches!"? Or perhaps are they just trying to flush said bigger terroristic fish into bolting from cover, which might be a good tactic.
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Tallpine

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Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
« Reply #429 on: April 21, 2013, 10:43:03 AM »
The two real questions are of course was the lockdown really 'voluntary', and did police force their way into homes?

If the answers and yes and no, then this whole thing goes to show how most people would react to martial law.

Given that the cops are chasing an armed fugitive through the neighborhood, staying inside might be a wise choice.  ;)

I don't care for all the military getup and vehicles just to chase one teenager, but it could have been handled worse.

At least they let the population know what was going on.  The local sheriff was chasing somebody through the woods and didn't inform residents (except for LE families  ;/ ).  The end result was that some folks let the guy in cold and wet, and he robbed them at gunpoint.  :facepalm:
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
« Reply #430 on: April 21, 2013, 01:04:05 PM »
Given that the cops are chasing an armed fugitive through the neighborhood, staying inside might be a wise choice.  ;)

I don't care for all the military getup and vehicles just to chase one teenager, but it could have been handled worse.

At least they let the population know what was going on.  The local sheriff was chasing somebody through the woods and didn't inform residents (except for LE families  ;/ ).  The end result was that some folks let the guy in cold and wet, and he robbed them at gunpoint.  :facepalm:

I don't dispute what common sense dictates.  My only dispute is with being ordered off the public street, but only if that is in fact what happened.  All reports seem to indicate that it was strongly suggested, but that they were no legal consequences for ignoring the order. 
JD

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Tallpine

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Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
« Reply #431 on: April 21, 2013, 01:15:29 PM »
I don't dispute what common sense dictates.  My only dispute is with being ordered off the public street, but only if that is in fact what happened.  All reports seem to indicate that it was strongly suggested, but that they were no legal consequences for ignoring the order. 

Well, given that there is probably no legal basis for such an order, that is good to hear.  =)

Y'all know that I'm not much of a fan of cops anymore.  I'm just trying to take a reasonable view until all the facts are known (if ever).

It does seem that there are some conflicting stories about what happened Thursday night/Friday morning when the older brother was killed.
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Gewehr98

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Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
« Reply #432 on: April 21, 2013, 01:38:46 PM »
Yeah, CNN now reports older brother was run over by younger, but still had explosives and triggering device attached to himself.

Would the po-po actually be in the process of cuffing and stuffing somebody if they were so explosively attired?
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BobR

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Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
« Reply #433 on: April 21, 2013, 01:51:41 PM »
Quote
Would the po-po actually be in the process of cuffing and stuffing somebody if they were so explosively attired?

About the only way I can see that is if the guy had been sufficiently perforated prior to the cuffing attempt. I don't think the po-po would have been taking any chances with him setting off the explosives.

bob 

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Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
« Reply #434 on: April 21, 2013, 05:32:03 PM »
Yeah, CNN now reports older brother was run over by younger, but still had explosives and triggering device attached to himself.

Would the po-po actually be in the process of cuffing and stuffing somebody if they were so explosively attired?

They might if they thought it worth the risk to secure him enough for the EOD guys to come in and do their thing.
It's also possible they didn't realize he was wearing asplodey undies just then.  Be a heck of a note to be the guy cuffing the baddie and noticing his odd fashion choices just as the cuffs click home.
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Gewehr98

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Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
« Reply #435 on: April 21, 2013, 09:13:04 PM »
Not lookin' too voluntary here (glad the video camera owner survived the incident):

http://youtu.be/2LrbsUVSVl8
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zxcvbob

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Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
« Reply #436 on: April 21, 2013, 09:23:42 PM »
At least they didn't shoot the dog!
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Nick1911

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Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
« Reply #437 on: April 21, 2013, 09:35:56 PM »
Not lookin' too voluntary here (glad the video camera owner survived the incident):

http://youtu.be/2LrbsUVSVl8

Wow.

Tallpine

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Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
« Reply #438 on: April 21, 2013, 09:41:35 PM »
Not lookin' too voluntary here (glad the video camera owner survived the incident):

http://youtu.be/2LrbsUVSVl8

I feel so much safer now  ;/
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41magsnub

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Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
« Reply #439 on: April 21, 2013, 09:45:08 PM »
Not lookin' too voluntary here (glad the video camera owner survived the incident):

http://youtu.be/2LrbsUVSVl8

My BP did not need that.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
« Reply #440 on: April 21, 2013, 09:53:09 PM »
Not lookin' too voluntary here (glad the video camera owner survived the incident):

http://youtu.be/2LrbsUVSVl8

got a date and address on that one?
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Gewehr98

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Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
« Reply #441 on: April 21, 2013, 10:00:00 PM »
No.

Do you? 

(I got the video link from Oleg, sorry if that's not good enough for you...)
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
« Reply #442 on: April 21, 2013, 10:05:40 PM »
you can't see how location and date matter?  really?


heres another video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfOvHuojEB4
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 10:13:00 PM by cassandra and sara's daddy »
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Gewehr98

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Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
« Reply #443 on: April 21, 2013, 10:17:04 PM »
Try not to be a total police sympathizer, C&SD, if only for a couple minutes, ok?  ;/

Look at the description of the video.  Sure, it could have been a drug bust from some time before the search for our two Chechen youths.   There's ALWAYS that chance.

WATERTOWN, MA -- On Friday, April 19, 2013, during a manhunt for a bombing suspect, police and federal agents spent the day storming people's homes and performing illegal searches. While it was unclear initially if the home searches were voluntary, it is now crystal clear that they were absolutely NOT voluntary. Police were filmed ripping people from their homes at gunpoint, marching the residents out with their hands raised in submission, and then storming the homes to perform their illegal searches.
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eyebrows

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Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
« Reply #444 on: April 21, 2013, 10:20:45 PM »
Did you notice they all get patted down too?

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
« Reply #445 on: April 21, 2013, 10:24:11 PM »
Try not to be a total police sympathizer, C&SD, if only for a couple minutes, ok?  ;/

Look at the description of the video.  Sure, it could have been a drug bust from some time before the search for our two Chechen youths.   There's ALWAYS that chance.

WATERTOWN, MA -- On Friday, April 19, 2013, during a manhunt for a bombing suspect, police and federal agents spent the day storming people's homes and performing illegal searches. While it was unclear initially if the home searches were voluntary, it is now crystal clear that they were absolutely NOT voluntary. Police were filmed ripping people from their homes at gunpoint, marching the residents out with their hands raised in submission, and then storming the homes to perform their illegal searches.

oh i firmly believe it was watertown  but my earlier question stands
do you really not see how date and address are very relevant?
do you have to try to not see it?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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roo_ster

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Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
« Reply #446 on: April 21, 2013, 10:37:23 PM »
To be able to act like such complete newbs when it comes to hostile police interaction takes a great deal of training.  Obviously, all these seemingly innocuous subjects are highly trained terrorist cell members.  Glad our brave LEOs nabbed them before they could pull another nefarious removal of a mattress tag.



If you go to the poster's facebook page, this is not the only video/photo he has of citizens being herded about at gunpoint.



Here is one with a street sign, "Willow Park."

Poster asked, "Does that look voluntary to you?"

Willow Park (road/street), Watertown, Mass happens to exist.
http://goo.gl/maps/if2O0

Willow Park (road/street), Wellesley, Mass happens to exist.
http://goo.gl/maps/c7D0V


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roo_ster

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Gewehr98

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Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
« Reply #447 on: April 21, 2013, 10:39:59 PM »
I'll take Watertown, MA on Friday, April 19th, 2013 for $100, Alex.

Tsarnaev's former roommates were from an apartment complex in New Bedford.

Quote
The two college-aged males and one college-aged female were detained by the FBI following a raid at the Hidden Brook apartment complex Friday evening. The complex entrance is at 42 West Hill Road, south of Interstate 195 and between Route 140 and Hathaway Road.

On Friday, Lt. Robert Richard told The Standard-Times that the students were believed to be fellow students or roommates of Tsarnaev, who is a registered student at UMass Dartmouth.

Are you saying this video is not what it purports?

Do you have info stating otherwise?

Or are you just being coy?

(And for the record, if this is some kind of tinfoil-helmet hoax propogated by somebody with an axe to grind, I'll be the first to admit my mistake upon discovering said hoax...)
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roo_ster

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Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
« Reply #448 on: April 21, 2013, 10:44:37 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBKCnJPFO5I
These folks woke up to police searching their garage.

"Does that look voluntary to you?"
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roo_ster

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BobR

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Re: Two explosions close to the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
« Reply #449 on: April 21, 2013, 10:45:44 PM »
Looks like they didn't even give the redhead time to get a pair of shoes on. Oh well, I can understand, it was for the public safety.  ;)

bob