Author Topic: Miranda Rights Won't Be Read For Boston Bombing Suspect: Justice Official  (Read 18360 times)

Ron

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For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

dogmush

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No suspecting about it.  It's a bad idea. I guess he's just lucky he's not in Gitmo.  yet.

MillCreek

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Oh, I don't like this one bit.  So they don't read him his rights; if he is smart enough anyway to keep his mouth shut and ask for counsel, is counsel provided?
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MillCreek
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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An anomymous source? And huff po? Hmmm another version of this already made the rounds and didn't do so well.

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

MillCreek

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http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/20/17832252-whats-next-the-interrogation-of-the-boston-bombing-suspect?lite

The same story is being reported in a number of different news outlets. The NBC article states that no lawyer will be present, but does not answer the question if one is provided if the suspect demands one.
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MillCreek
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

Ron

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They are conditioning the public to accept this as normal.

Our rights are now conditional upon whether the government decides you are a danger or not.

He is a terrorist and nobody will want to defend his rights as a US citizen. Next time maybe it will be a kingpin of a Chicago gang, where gun murders are so high his rights are now forfeit for the common good. A couple few decades more of this and we may end up in a full blown police state.

This is what happens with the blurring of the lines between war/police action.



For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

dogmush

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They are conditioning the public to accept this as normal.

Our rights are now conditional upon whether the government decides you are a danger or not


This is how you make people dangerous.

agricola

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We tried this with internment, it didnt work.  Treating them as criminals that they are is the best response to these acts.
"Idiot!  A long life eating mush is best."
"Make peace, you fools"

birdman

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The USAG said this on the news conference last night.

The thing is, not being read your rights doesn't mean they don't exist.  
The concern is whether or not habeus corpus is denied.

Is this a concern, yup.  The a$$hole perp in question IS a naturalized American citizen, so this is squishy, slippery slope ground, regardless of what he did.  

The questioning is apparently being done by a "federal government HVT interrogation team"...which makes things even MORE interesting given his citizenship.

The real issue will become IF his brother was the mastermind, and IF this guy has no further contacts or information on other threats, THEN what happens....if he's still held without trial a la enemy combatants...THEN it becomes an even bigger issue, as with no further exigency, there really is no argument, specious or otherwise, for any suspension of rights.

Personally, I think they should have mirandized him right away, ESPECIALLY since the LEOs in the press conference said there was no more threat and the people of Boston can relax....no more immediate threat, no more exigency.  Unfortunately, that means the screwed up by immediately after that saying due to public safety exigency, no Miranda.  That means if he does get a trial, egg on face of USAG....so get ready for the spin on that one.

dogmush

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The USAG said this on the news conference last night.

The thing is, not being read your rights doesn't mean they don't exist.  
The concern is whether or not habeus corpus is denied.

Is this a concern, yup.  The a$$hole perp in question IS a naturalized American citizen, so this is squishy, slippery slope ground, regardless of what he did.  

The questioning is apparently being done by a "federal government HVT interrogation team"...which makes things even MORE interesting given his citizenship.

The real issue will become IF his brother was the mastermind, and IF this guy has no further contacts or information on other threats, THEN what happens....if he's still held without trial a la enemy combatants...THEN it becomes an even bigger issue, as with no further exigency, there really is no argument, specious or otherwise, for any suspension of rights.

Personally, I think they should have mirandized him right away, ESPECIALLY since the LEOs in the press conference said there was no more threat and the people of Boston can relax....no more immediate threat, no more exigency.  Unfortunately, that means the screwed up by immediately after that saying due to public safety exigency, no Miranda.  That means if he does get a trial, egg on face of USAG....so get ready for the spin on that one.

I thought this was the one that didn't become a citizen. Older (deader) bro was the citizen.  ???

Not that it makes a difference in the way we should treat him.  Unless we decide to deport him back to Russia.

MillCreek

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I believe the older brother was denied citizenship due to a domestic violence conviction.  The younger brother should enjoy the same and every legal right as would someone who was born in Boston.
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MillCreek
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

Azrael256

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No, the live one is a citizen.  The dead one wasn't, and for different reasons depending on who you ask.

Regardless, the prosecution should be entirely above reproach.  This isn't setting a good precedent.  

dogmush

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My bad, I had them reversed.

Apparently he became a citizen on Sep 11, 2012?

There's some irony there.

Blakenzy

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I believe the older brother was denied citizenship due to a domestic violence conviction.  The younger brother should enjoy the same and every legal right as would someone who was born in Boston.

But... trrsm!

But, but... 9-11!

But, but, but.... mooslim!
"Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own governors, must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives. A popular government without popular information or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce or a tragedy or perhaps both"

Azrael256

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Evidently it's from a 1984 case New York v. Quarles, not Miranda itself.

birdman

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Evidently it's from a 1984 case New York v. Quarles, not Miranda itself.

And:
Quote

Under this exception, to be admissible in the government's direct case at a trial, the questioning must not be "actually compelled by police conduct which overcame his will to resist," and must be focused and limited, involving a situation "in which police officers ask questions reasonably prompted by a concern for the public safety."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_v._Quarles

So...an HVT interrogation team?  And if public safety is publicly declared to be not a problem, in the same press conference...how does this apply?

Also, the difference between this dude and the other two Americans (lindh and Padilla) was Padilla was arrested when they thought he was parts a bigger group that was in the near term going to be doing a dirty bomb attack (and was held in military custody once declared an enemy combatant) and lindh was captured BY the military on foreign soil.

As much as I want this guy to fry for what he did, I don't like it when a citizen's rights are nullified by an official.  Quarles seems to not apply--as above...but who knows

MillCreek

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Uh, you are forgetting the part where the Patriot Act expanded the definition of terrorism to include domestic acts, so that the public safety exception would apply to domestic terrorism, not just crimes.
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MillCreek
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

zxcvbob

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But... trrsm!

But, but... 9-11!

But, but, but.... mooslim!


Exactly.  That why I say let MA try him for murder -- it's the simplest path to locking him up for 300 years.  It'll be the shortest murder trial in history.  The feds are gonna screw this up and make a martyr out of him.
"It's good, though..."

Tallpine

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Exactly.  That why I say let MA try him for murder -- it's the simplest path to locking him up for 300 years.  It'll be the shortest murder trial in history.  The feds are gonna screw this up and make a martyr out of him.

Agree.  Funny, they didn't go enemy combatant on the DC shooters.  More fatalities then too IIRC.


This is how you make people dangerous.

Yeah, if you know you are going to disappear into the Gulag ... 
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

birdman

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Agree.  Funny, they didn't go enemy combatant on the DC shooters.  More fatalities then too IIRC.


Yeah, if you know you are going to disappear into the Gulag ... 

Hassan too.

agricola

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Not being that familiar with your legal system, but what are the chances that this course of action by the authorities could help in a successful defence?  Wouldnt everything he said pre-Miranda be inadmissable?
"Idiot!  A long life eating mush is best."
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Tallpine

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Not being that familiar with your legal system, but what are the chances that this course of action by the authorities could help in a successful defence?  Wouldnt everything he said pre-Miranda be inadmissable?

Yeah, assuming he gets a trial.

They could just dump him at sea  =|
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

SADShooter

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US citizenship means something, or it doesn't. All the jawboning about treatment of foreign enemy combatants just became an unamusing sideline joke.
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Tallpine

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US citizenship means something, or it doesn't. All the jawboning about treatment of foreign enemy combatants just became an unamusing sideline joke.

Yeah, they're only going to do that to people on the other side of the world ...  ;/




Even worse, it is the REPUBLICANS who are calling out for suspending the constitution in this instance  :mad:
« Last Edit: April 20, 2013, 04:23:58 PM by Tallpine »
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

SADShooter

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Yeah, they're only going to do that to people on the other side of the world ...  ;/




Even worse, it is the REPUBLICANS who are calling out for suspending the constitution in this instance  :mad:

McCain & Graham: "Civil liberties and due process are OK only when they're convenient." :mad:
"Ah, is there any wine so sweet and intoxicating as the tears of a hippie?"-Tamara, View From the Porch