Author Topic: George Zimmerman Trial  (Read 219288 times)

makattak

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #625 on: July 23, 2013, 08:09:45 AM »
You claim this is "clearly statistically true." Feel free to provide evidence that no white/hispanic/asian students are functionally illiterate post high school. I'll wait.

Sorry, I didn't notice his hyperbole. However, I, too, would like to see the numbers of functionally illiterate who graduate high school. My impression is that the inner city schools (black and hispanic) are far more likely to graduate students who can't read. The white illiterates tend to be drop-outs, in my experience.

The hyperbolic point you are arguing against may be damning the public school system for failing the black graduates, not claiming a genetic component for the failure.
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Hutch

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #626 on: July 23, 2013, 09:03:06 AM »
I've never seen a A&M hat with the logo in that spot.  It's also crooked.  (it's still funny, and it might be an Aggie, but it's been 'shopped)
Damn.  A Tide fan falls for the head fake.
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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #627 on: July 23, 2013, 10:47:54 AM »
Sorry, I didn't notice his hyperbole. However, I, too, would like to see the numbers of functionally illiterate who graduate high school. My impression is that the inner city schools (black and hispanic) are far more likely to graduate students who can't read. The white illiterates tend to be drop-outs, in my experience.

The hyperbolic point you are arguing against may be damning the public school system for failing the black graduates, not claiming a genetic component for the failure.

Words like "only," "all," and the like generally paint one into a statistically untenable corner.  Only need one counterexample to show the statement to be false.  Which is why I avoid them.  OTOH, such use of an absolute may be true for the writer/speaker if the sample of crimes he has witnessed were such that he only saw the one sort of perpetrator.  For instance, we had a business owner locally whose business and home was in a rough neighborhood, mostly hispanic & black.  But, it turns out that the only tweakers he had to kill with his shotgun were white.  Three of them in two weeks before the word got out and tweakers stopped busting into his home/business.  For him, the "only" criminals he had to kill were "all" white trash.

Every once in a while you see a quantifiable situation with a large sample size where such absolutes might be used, depending on how one wants to round the numbers and speak somewhat sloppily.  For example, "In 2008 the 'only' black & white interracial rapes were between black rapists and white victims." (http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cvus/current/cv0842.pdf Table 42 Percent distribution of single-offender victimizations, by type of crime, race of victim, and perceived race of offender)

The table shows 0.0%* for white on black rapes, showing fed.gov rounds to the nearest tenth of a percent.  If you read the "*" note, it indicates 10 or fewer white on black rapes reported.  Doing the math shows that the proportion to be from 0.0000117 or 0.00117% (assumed # victims =1) to 0.000117 or 0.0117% (assumed # victims =10).  Of course, if "10 or fewer" happens to actually be zero, the percentage is zero and an absolute sort of term would be factual.  Frankly, rounding to the nearest tenth of a percent is legitmate in this case

Doing a bit more math, there were 19293 black on white rapes in 2008.  Assuming the largest number of white on black rapes indicated (10), that shows that there were 1929 times more black on white than white on black rapes in 2008.  Or 19293x if we assume the number of white on black rapes to be one.  Or infinitely more if we assume the number of white on black rapes to be zero. 

The "0.0%*" of white on black rapes has been replicated over several years until recently...when fed.gov stopped giving out the numbers under the Obama administration.  "If thy number offends thee and causes thee discomfort, pluck it out."

As with any social science data, there are some squishy factors that can be bandied about.  In lots of data tables, fed.gov conflates hispanic and white data, driving up white crime rates.  The offender's race is that perceived by the victim, not some sort of genetic test of "blue ribbon race determination panel" like they had in South Africa.  (I don't really mind that we don't have such panels, as they are creepifying.)

FTR, most violent black on white / white on black crime rate differences are not the ~2000x range.  Most are in the 40x to 8x range, depending on the crime.  For some others (especially white collar crimes), the rates are flipped and whites commit more.






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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #628 on: July 23, 2013, 11:48:40 AM »
Sorry, I didn't notice his hyperbole.

Around here it isn't hyperbole, it's reality. In the cities, none of the schools are anywhere near as good as the schools in the surrounding 'burbs, but kids who want can at least learn to read and write, and speak like a human being. It's only the black sub-culture that insists on speaking "Ebonics" and wondering why they can't get a job.

My church runs a free tutoring session on Saturdays, with VERY qualified people there to help students with whatever subject they need help in -- mostly math and English. The majority of the kids who attend are Hispanic, with a sprinkling of whites. There are very few blacks, and many of those who are black also happen to be Hispanics, and they are there because they attend our Spanish-language mass, not because they are black.

Do I have hard statistics? Nope. Just observations of what's happening in real life right in front of my eyes.
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lee n. field

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #629 on: July 23, 2013, 12:51:56 PM »
Do PF9s barrels normally look like that?

In the white, belled like that.  Yes, that's what they look like.
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lee n. field

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #630 on: July 23, 2013, 12:52:41 PM »
Looks just like my P3AT

ditto the lcp.
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lee n. field

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #631 on: July 24, 2013, 03:45:11 PM »
Larry Correia interacts with our President's remarks

Quote
There are very few African American men who haven’t had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. That happens to me — at least before I was a senator.

Don’t flatter yourself. Nobody has ever been physically intimidated by somebody wearing mom jeans.

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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #632 on: July 24, 2013, 03:49:20 PM »
Quote
There are very few African American men who haven’t had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. That happens to me — at least before I was a senator.

Don’t flatter yourself. Nobody has ever been physically intimidated by somebody wearing mom jeans. 

:rofl:
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seeker_two

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #633 on: July 24, 2013, 04:09:16 PM »
Quote
There are very few African American men who haven’t had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. That happens to me —at least before I was a senator.

Don’t flatter yourself. Nobody has ever been physically intimidated by somebody wearing mom jeans.

Do we need to pull up the pics of Rosie O'Donnell today?....
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

SADShooter

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #634 on: July 24, 2013, 04:24:29 PM »
Another gem: "I’m so big and ugly that if I got into an elevator with Barack Obama he’d hold his breath and clutch his purse."
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Levant

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #635 on: July 24, 2013, 08:29:36 PM »
I've known a loootttttt of white folks who can't speak English properly, and graduate high school as functional illiterates.

And a lot of them post here or other gun forums I have visited.

They often (shockingly!) are from poor white trash families who place no cultural value on education or bettering oneself. Also, compare the results of the English welfare state, and all of the (white) illiterate hooligans it has spawned.

So, yeah. I know folks on the right get falsely accused of racism for every thing we believe, but that isn't helped by the, you know, actual racism on display above.

A lot of them also come from well-to-do or at least middle-class homes.  And even here, we'll likely get criticized for mentioning it by those who think our concern about the language is unfounded.  As society and civilization collapse, as Americans become less bound together by virtue of being Americans and more tied to those who speak the same dialect or foreign language as do they, we keep turning a blind eye to the importance of knowing, speaking, reading, and writing, in a common national language.
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Levant

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #636 on: July 24, 2013, 08:35:58 PM »
FWIW, I sometimes wear a hoodie when it's cold and/or raining.  I have two, one from SVTP (A car forum) but usually I'm just wearing a plain Black one that says "OIF" on the right breast.

So I'm a bad guy when it hits 40 degrees in FL?

Don't get too caught up in hoodies (or other possesion) when what we really object to is the actions of some people.  The clothes are not criminal.

When you're wearing them out of place, with the hood up and your face hidden, that's reason for high suspicion.  When you're wearing them outdoors in the cold, with the hood up, that's less suspicious but still warrants caution.

When I was a kid in Idaho we had heavy fur trimmed coats with fur trimmed hoods (fake fur, of course; we were much too poor for the real thing).  When it was 30 below zero, no one thought a thing of seeing us in a hood.  But in Los Angeles it is never that cold.  It's never cold enough to cover your face.  In places like LA, a covered face means trouble - period.
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dogmush

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #637 on: July 25, 2013, 06:43:37 AM »
When you're wearing them out of place, with the hood up and your face hidden, that's reason for high suspicion.  When you're wearing them outdoors in the cold, with the hood up, that's less suspicious but still warrants caution.

When I was a kid in Idaho we had heavy fur trimmed coats with fur trimmed hoods (fake fur, of course; we were much too poor for the real thing).  When it was 30 below zero, no one thought a thing of seeing us in a hood.  But in Los Angeles it is never that cold.  It's never cold enough to cover your face.  In places like LA, a covered face means trouble - period.

And yet, the place where Trayvon was wearing a hoodie is less then an hour and a half drive from my house, in the weather I would have worn one.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending TM. He was "profiled" as a possible criminal 25 min before committing a violent felony so Zimmerman might have been on to something there. I just take issue with any broad brush statement like "Hoodies are for criminals" because it's both bigoted horseshit and it keeps the real issues from being discussed. In this case the hoodie (and race) of TM don't matter for jack, because the actual issue is that TM's parents raised someone that thought a beating was an appropriate response to a slight.

That upbringing, more then anything else, is what got him killed. If it hadn't been Zimmerman it would have been some other night that he picked the wrong fight.

HankB

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #638 on: July 25, 2013, 08:36:09 AM »
. . . Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending TM. He was "profiled" as a possible criminal 25 min before committing a violent felony so Zimmerman might have been on to something there . . .
And as part of what the media claims is "profiling," GZ said it looked as if TM was " . . . on drugs or something."

Post mortem tox screen found THC in TM's system, and it turned out he was suspended from school for a drug offense, so . . . it is profiling, or is it an accurate observation?
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lupinus

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #639 on: July 25, 2013, 10:08:17 AM »
And as part of what the media claims is "profiling," GZ said it looked as if TM was " . . . on drugs or something."

Post mortem tox screen found THC in TM's system, and it turned out he was suspended from school for a drug offense, so . . . it is profiling, or is it an accurate observation?
Sometimes the two are not mutually exclusive.
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Monkeyleg

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #640 on: July 25, 2013, 10:29:09 AM »
Martin fit the suspect description of guys who had broken into homes in the community weeks prior.

Cops do this "profiling" all the time when they see someone who matches a suspect description. What's the alternative? Walk up to people at random and politely ask if they've committed any crimes lately?

Fitz

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #641 on: July 25, 2013, 10:33:28 AM »
When did profiling become a bad thing?
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Tallpine

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #642 on: July 25, 2013, 10:45:47 AM »
Martin fit the suspect description of guys who had broken into homes in the community weeks prior.

Cops do this "profiling" all the time when they see someone who matches a suspect description. What's the alternative? Walk up to people at random and politely ask if they've committed any crimes lately?

Strip search everyone at the airport  :facepalm:
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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #643 on: July 25, 2013, 12:37:15 PM »
Post mortem tox screen found THC in TM's system, and it turned out he was suspended from school for a drug offense, so . . . it is profiling, or is it an accurate observation?
Given the levels  of THC in his system, I seriously doubt it was effecting his behavior to any observable extent.  We are talking pot here, not PCP, and pot taken some time beforehand.  A trained cop could probably spot someone with that much THC in their system by carefully looking at their eyes, but not from across the street.

I think that was just a lucky guess.

Jocassee

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #644 on: July 25, 2013, 02:55:22 PM »
Given the levels  of THC in his system, I seriously doubt it was effecting his behavior to any observable extent.  We are talking pot here, not PCP, and pot taken some time beforehand.  A trained cop could probably spot someone with that much THC in their system by carefully looking at their eyes, but not from across the street.

I think that was just a lucky guess.

I know we've been over the Lean thing here before, and it's not vital to the case--but if he was high on lean, the ambling, random behavior would fit.
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makattak

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #645 on: July 25, 2013, 03:04:31 PM »
Given the levels  of THC in his system, I seriously doubt it was effecting his behavior to any observable extent.  We are talking pot here, not PCP, and pot taken some time beforehand.  A trained cop could probably spot someone with that much THC in their system by carefully looking at their eyes, but not from across the street.

I think that was just a lucky guess.

Or he was casing the houses. Mr. Zimmerman put out drugs as a possible explanation ("like he's on drugs or something"), but loitering in an unfamiliar neighborhood on a cold, rainy night is suspicious, all by itself.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Jocassee

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #646 on: July 25, 2013, 03:06:52 PM »
Here we go again

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-juror-murder/story?id=19770659

Quote
He 'Got Away With Murder'

Quote
When asked by Roberts whether the case should have gone to trial, Maddy said, "I don't think so."

Cognitive dissonance?

Apparently, as we feared, the jury wasn't that bright.
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makattak

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #647 on: July 25, 2013, 03:13:15 PM »
Here we go again

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-juror-murder/story?id=19770659

Cognitive dissonance?

Apparently, as we feared, the jury wasn't that bright.

It took 9 hours of discussion for the rest of the jury to finally convince her that she couldn't convict him based on her feelings.

God help this country, and God bless those other jurors.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #648 on: July 25, 2013, 03:19:38 PM »
Here we go again

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-juror-murder/story?id=19770659

Cognitive dissonance?

Apparently, as we feared, the jury wasn't that bright.

How come she gets to be Puerto Rican, but Zimmerman is still a "white hispanic"?
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lupinus

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #649 on: July 25, 2013, 03:28:22 PM »
Because she asserts that he is a murderer, of course.
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