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Author Topic: Government-Corporate Automotive Fascism in Europe, coming to US?  (Read 3729 times)

AZRedhawk44

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Government-Corporate Automotive Fascism in Europe, coming to US?
« on: September 06, 2013, 04:25:40 PM »

http://ericpetersautos.com/2013/09/03/speed-limiters-rolled/

Europe is floating a mandate that all vehicles must automatically read speed limit signs and then electronically govern the available top end of the vehicle.  And mandating that all non-equipped vehicles be retrofit.  And mandating that all vehicles unable to be retrofit, be banned from roads.

Eric Peters adroitly notes that the "black box" debate from a few years ago, where some vehicle manufacturers were putting data logger boxes into their cars and customers didn't want to pay for it (or wanted it removed)... the end result was the industry lobbying as a whole for a mandatory law for all manufacturers to have such a box, eliminating the consumer's preferences in the Invisible Hand of the economy.

Same thing happening here.  Who on earth would ever buy such a vehicle?

No one.

Unless it's all that is available.
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Gowen

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Re: Government-Corporate Automotive Fascism in Europe, coming to US?
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2013, 04:42:20 PM »

Won't fly for this reason alone....  How are municipalities going to make speeding ticket tax revenue?
"That's my hat, I'm the leader!" Napoleon the Bloodhound


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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Government-Corporate Automotive Fascism in Europe, coming to US?
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2013, 04:49:43 PM »

Won't fly for this reason alone....  How are municipalities going to make speeding ticket tax revenue?

Feds don't get speeding revenues.

GM/Ford/Toyota/etc lobby Congress.  Not Possum's Tail City Council.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Government-Corporate Automotive Fascism in Europe, coming to US?
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2013, 05:01:43 PM »

Quote
And mandating that all non-equipped vehicles be retrofit.  And mandating that all vehicles unable to be retrofit, be banned from roads.

I think that part won't let it fly in the US (for a while anyway). Way too many of us driving older vehicles. I'm also thinking it would be pretty difficult to retro-fit to a motorcycle.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

drewtam

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Re: Government-Corporate Automotive Fascism in Europe, coming to US?
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2013, 05:07:56 PM »

Seems like it could be fought on 4th amendment grounds.
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Balog

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Re: Government-Corporate Automotive Fascism in Europe, coming to US?
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2013, 06:12:47 PM »

Seems like it could be fought on 4th amendment grounds.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....


It's cute how you act like we have a 4th Amendment right to anything anymore.
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Gowen

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Re: Government-Corporate Automotive Fascism in Europe, coming to US?
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2013, 07:21:22 PM »

Feds don't get speeding revenues.

GM/Ford/Toyota/etc lobby Congress.  Not Possum's Tail City Council.

No, but the congresscritters in Washington have to listen to the local governments.  If you start talking about taking big chunks of money out of their budgets, someones going to be crying. Wasn't there a tread about some city makes 25% of its budget on tickets?  That's big money.
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drewtam

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Re: Government-Corporate Automotive Fascism in Europe, coming to US?
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2013, 10:51:48 PM »

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....


It's cute how you act like we have a 4th Amendment right to anything anymore.

No rights exist except for those we are willing to fight for.
Im not saying I invented the turtleneck. But I was the first person to realize its potential as a tactical garment. The tactical turtleneck! The tactleneck!

brimic

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Re: Government-Corporate Automotive Fascism in Europe, coming to US?
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2013, 03:46:25 AM »

Quote
the end result was the industry lobbying as a whole for a mandatory law for all manufacturers to have such a box, eliminating the consumer's preferences in the Invisible Hand of the economy.

Which will create an entire cottage industry of people who reprogram/defeat/replace malignant black box with something more favorable to the consumer.
....or just stash a non-.gov controlled vehicle in the sewers for a rainy day. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teFXjTSQGDQ
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 03:55:44 AM by brimic »
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Cliffh

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Re: Government-Corporate Automotive Fascism in Europe, coming to US?
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2013, 11:30:08 PM »

And people wonder why I like (most of) the mid-60's to early 70's cars.

Levant

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Re: Government-Corporate Automotive Fascism in Europe, coming to US?
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2013, 01:18:38 AM »

Won't fly for this reason alone....  How are municipalities going to make speeding ticket tax revenue?

That.  Cities and service providers have too much to lose.  No one really ever wanted people to drive safe; there's no money in it.
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Levant

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Re: Government-Corporate Automotive Fascism in Europe, coming to US?
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2013, 01:20:14 AM »

Feds don't get speeding revenues.

GM/Ford/Toyota/etc lobby Congress.  Not Possum's Tail City Council.

Feds got lobbyists, just like the cities that put in speed cameras - for which the UK is the world leader.  Floating is one thing.  It won't pass there or here... and it will be promoted as a victory for liberty when it's only about money.
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Waitone

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Re: Government-Corporate Automotive Fascism in Europe, coming to US?
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2013, 06:23:37 PM »

Yeah, we didn't want national health care and we got it anyhow.  We still don't want it and now neither party supports the little people's position.  We exist to provide gainful employment to the Praetorian class.
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brimic

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Re: Government-Corporate Automotive Fascism in Europe, coming to US?
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2013, 06:45:15 PM »

Yeah, we didn't want national health care and we got it anyhow.  We still don't want it and now neither party supports the little people's position.  We exist to provide gainful employment to the Praetorian class.

Pro tip: The 'Praetorian class bleeds just the same as us common proles.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Government-Corporate Automotive Fascism in Europe, coming to US?
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2013, 06:54:28 PM »

Why should the praetorian class need to worry about bleeing when they have all us proles to do it for them?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

Bigjake

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Re: Government-Corporate Automotive Fascism in Europe, coming to US?
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2013, 10:20:17 PM »

Imagine millions of speed limit signs,  mysteriously vandalized...

Admittedly,  many speed/red-light cameras go unscathed,  but I can't see this going without any repercussion.

MechAg94

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Re: Government-Corporate Automotive Fascism in Europe, coming to US?
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2013, 11:15:28 PM »

Feds don't get speeding revenues.

GM/Ford/Toyota/etc lobby Congress.  Not Possum's Tail City Council.
Why would manufacturers want this?  It would get in the way of selling all those great engine and dashboard upgrades. 

Only way I can see is a compromise to relax Clean air act standards. 
It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.  ― Calvin Coolidge

MechAg94

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Re: Government-Corporate Automotive Fascism in Europe, coming to US?
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2013, 10:32:37 AM »

I was thinking about this some more.  We have had speed governors available in this country to a while now.  I seem to remember them being almost common on some cars in the 80's.  People hated them for the most part.  I think the only place you might still see something like that is on fleet or work vehicles.  I really can't see people putting up with that. 

Also, speed limits vary from state to state and even within states so it would also require another national speed limit.  That may be an environmentalist's wet dream, but no one else wants it.
It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.  ― Calvin Coolidge

mtnbkr

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Re: Government-Corporate Automotive Fascism in Europe, coming to US?
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2013, 11:02:43 AM »

I was thinking about this some more.  We have had speed governors available in this country to a while now.  I seem to remember them being almost common on some cars in the 80's.  People hated them for the most part.  I think the only place you might still see something like that is on fleet or work vehicles.  I really can't see people putting up with that. 

My 2013 Focus is speed limited to 140mph IIRC.  Not that it matters to me, I have no desire to go that fast in a "normal" car.

Chris

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Government-Corporate Automotive Fascism in Europe, coming to US?
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2013, 11:10:11 AM »

My '68 M715 is speed limited to about 60MPH by inherent mechanical limitations. That and trying to drive that thing any faster exceeds my pucker limits. 
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Government-Corporate Automotive Fascism in Europe, coming to US?
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2013, 04:25:25 PM »

My '68 M715 is speed limited to about 60MPH by inherent mechanical limitations. That and trying to drive that thing any faster exceeds my pucker limits.
I never imagined my 86 ranger 4x4 could do even 80 but I let my helper drive it to jersey and he got papered at 105 on 95


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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Government-Corporate Automotive Fascism in Europe, coming to US?
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2013, 05:15:47 PM »

I had an '88 Ranger 4X4 as a company vehicle for a while. It was a major POS by the time i got it. Any speed over 60 MPH was taking your life in your own hands.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

Scout26

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Re: Government-Corporate Automotive Fascism in Europe, coming to US?
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2013, 05:59:05 PM »

I simply can't see the Germans, with their Autobahns, going for this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22538856
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Tallpine

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Re: Government-Corporate Automotive Fascism in Europe, coming to US?
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2013, 06:03:25 PM »

With all the whizmo tech being added to cars, I can sorta see some sort of speed limit detection and warning system - just to let you know when the speed limit changed in case you didn't notice.

But I can't see it being in the governments' interest to get people to slow down and not get tickets  ;/
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