Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead

[Ron]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/police-search-for-active-shooter-on-grounds-of-washington-navy-yard-in-southeast-dc/2013/09/16/b1d72b9a-1ecb-11e3-b7d1-7153ad47b549_story.html

Police say three shooters, including at least one in fatigues, have shot at least 10 people at the Washington Navy Yard.

[vaskidmark]

Story is all over the nooz.  Right now (10:24 EDT) they are reporting there are/may be multiple shooters involved - quite an update from jusat a few minutes ago when the report was the (a) shooter was captured - not shot, not killed, but captured.

Talking heads are becoming more positive that there is more than one shooter, and revising victim count to 1 dead and 5 woulded.  This is different from an "official" release from "a senior navy official" who has given the 12 shot, 4 dead and 8 still.  Confirmation at 10:30 is 10 shot, 4 dead, and only one shooter.  Word on the status of the shooter not changed.

Every law enforcement agency within 7 counties seems to have some presence.  DEA/Reagan National is allowing planes to land but not allowing take-offs.  Talk about jammed taxiways.

Six (6) DC schools on lockdown - one of which does not have anybody assigned to it.  (So why did they lock it down?)

Prayers for the victims, but I gotta ask - how's that gun free zone stuff working for ya?

DC Metro buses are evacuating Navy Yard personnel who are not wounded.  No word if they are actually confirming ID as they take them out.  (Have I been reading too many novels?)

stay safe.

[AZRedhawk44]

how's that gun free zone stuff working for ya?

To be fair, this is at a naval yard.  .Mil base.  There are armed MP's or whatever equivalent the Navy has, but it isn't a school, airport or mall as is typical of these things.

[Jamisjockey]

To be fair, this is at a naval yard.  .Mil base.  There are armed MP's or whatever equivalent the Navy has, but it isn't a school, airport or mall as is typical of these things.

Your extensive knowledge of the military in full swing again?  Most military installations have about the same amount of readily armed guards as a small town or city.  I'd be shocked if there were more than a dozen armed guards/MP's on duty at the Naval yard. Maybe less if the Navy Yard doesn't have any on-station housing. QRF would act similarly to a civilian swat team...off duty officers on call.
For all purposes it is a gun free zone.  Your average college probably has more armed officers on duty.

And actually after doing some research on the Navy Yard, I'd be shocked if they had their own QRF.  QRF probably comes from other agencies or nearby facilities.

[RevDisk]

To be fair, this is at a naval yard.  .Mil base.  There are armed MP's or whatever equivalent the Navy has, but it isn't a school, airport or mall as is typical of these things.

Na, I'd be surprised if the Naval yard had as much security or armed personnel as the average school, airport or mall.

[vaskidmark]

First, another update - one shooter reported dead.  That the dead shooter was the only shooter is NOT being even suggested.

Because, among other reasons it would take too long to search every employee vehicle, vehicles with base stickers are waved through, and those with stickers from other bases are stopped to determine their destination but not searched.  Only vehicles without stickers are subject to search.

My logic-fu strongly suggests the shooter came through with a base sticker.

Jamis - WNY has probably fewer security/guards than most military bases in the DC area, based on my personal observations on the few times I have been there over the past 3 years.  And yes, based on the fact that the civillian worker force overwhelms the numbers of active duty, the presence of a QRF on site is doubtful.  Naval Investigation Service has a presence on base, but I seriously doubt if they have long arms or SWAT toys stored there.  Navy/Marine Corps bases where I have had interaction with NIS revealed that for the most part they walk around in Class A uniforms with concealed sidearms - the base MPs could outgun them just by bringing a few shotguns.  (This does not mean I know anything about NIS at WNY.  It's just an observation by one person.)

All of which means when the balloon goes up you are on your own until someone telegraphs to Ft. Apache, Rin Tin Tin and the cavalry saddles up, and they get there - but unlike the movies/TV, not in the nick of time.

stay safe.

[vaskidmark]

Another update -

The shooter walked into the building with a double-barrel shotgun, shot the armed civillian guard on duty in the building, then was targeting specific individuals.

Also words to the effect that "one shooter is dead".  There is an ongoing search but there is no confirmation that there is actually a second shooter.

Geo. Washington Univ. Hospital chief medical officer says wounds are consistent with a semiautomatic weapon for the 3 victims they have, including a DC Metro police officer shot in both legs.  Employees at the Navy Yard describe hearing pop-pop-pop shooting.

So - everything is crystal clear and we know every detail of the event, just like the Warren Commission closed out the JFK shooting.

stay safe.

[Jamisjockey]

"civilian guard".  So really, they probably don't have MP's on site.  Probably about the same security as a high end office building suite or federal building.

[vaskidmark]

"civilian guard".  So really, they probably don't have MP's on site.  Probably about the same security as a high end office building suite or federal building.

Not hardly.  The nooz just described the place as "a high security sitre, just like all other military bases." 

The Navy does not have MPs - they have Shore Patrol.  And yes, there are SPs at WNY, along with NIS and several other alphabet agencies and at least two that I personally know of that do not, never have, and never will exist.  But they are mostly there to provide specific-point security to specific doorways ("hatches) and corridors ("passageways") to the Navy.  Civillian contract police usually handle perimeter security including outside doorways, as well as entrance gate duty.

Marines with automatic weapons are described as patroling the sidewalks outside 8th & Eye Marine barracks.  From the halls of no mazuma to the sidewalks of DC.  Semper Fi!

stay safe.

[AZRedhawk44]

Your extensive knowledge of the military in full swing again?  Most military installations have about the same amount of readily armed guards as a small town or city.  I'd be shocked if there were more than a dozen armed guards/MP's on duty at the Naval yard. Maybe less if the Navy Yard doesn't have any on-station housing. QRF would act similarly to a civilian swat team...off duty officers on call.
For all purposes it is a gun free zone.  Your average college probably has more armed officers on duty.

And actually after doing some research on the Navy Yard, I'd be shocked if they had their own QRF.  QRF probably comes from other agencies or nearby facilities.

 

You guys are so fond of pointing out how rights don't exist for servicemen, so 2A and gun free zone / victim disarmament zone arguments don't apply anyways. 

[roo_ster]

Better 4,5, a dozen folks die unarmed than one officer lose his career due to a subordinate having a negligent discharge.

We really need to keep our priorities straight.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Better 4,5, a dozen folks die unarmed than one officer lose his career due to a subordinate having a negligent discharge.

We really need to keep our priorities straight.

they play the odds.

[vaskidmark]

You guys are so fond of pointing out how rights don't exist for servicemen, so 2A and gun free zone / victim disarmament zone arguments don't apply anyways.  

I beg your pardon.  I complain, bitterly, about servicemembers being stripped of their 2A rights, not fondly pointing out the fact.  Some few commanders apparently agree as shown by them allowing the carry of personal weapons off-base.

I am opposed to servicemembers in uniform carrying military arms off base because that puts a standing army on the streets.  But that does not mean that I am opposed to ative duty servicemembers carrying military arms (loaded preferably but I will accept Israeli-style magazine carried separately) on base.  If we trust them to follow ROE on the battlefield, why should we not trust them on base?

Now that I have addressed your strawman, can we focus on the fact that for all intents and purposes this attack was focused on civillian employees?  Three thousand of them alone assigned to the one building where we know shootings took place.

stay safe.

Edited to fix typo

[Tallpine]

My logic-fu strongly suggests the shooter came through with a base sticker.

More "workplace violence" 

[Fitz]

I beg your pardon.  I complain, bitterly, about servicemembers being stripped of their 2A rights, not fondly pointing out the fact.  Some few commanders apparently agree as shown by them allowing the carry of personal weapons off-base.

Point of order.

I have been advised that telling a servicemember that they cannot carry off base (when the law otherwise allows it) is prohibited , and is an unlawful order.

[HankB]

Major Nidal Hasan murdered thirteen unarmed service members in the Ft. Hood shooting, and wounded 29 more unarmed soldiers in his spree of Islamic terrorism workplace violence. He was eventually taken down by two DACP - Department of the Army Civilian Police - one of whom was wounded in the process.

There have been plenty of stories over the past decades of unarmed guards on military bases, guards with only billy clubs, and "armed" sentries issued no ammunition whatsoever.

Policies in place favor the odds that a determined, armed attacker in a domestic military base will be able to continue unopposed long enough to do some real damage.

[Fitz]

Major Nidal Hasan murdered thirteen unarmed service members in the Ft. Hood shooting, and wounded 29 more unarmed soldiers in his spree of Islamic terrorism workplace violence. He was eventually taken down by two DACP - Department of the Army Civilian Police - one of whom was wounded in the process.

There have been plenty of stories over the past decades of unarmed guards on military bases, guards with only billy clubs, and "armed" sentries issued no ammunition whatsoever.

Policies in place favor the odds that a determined, armed attacker in a domestic military base will be able to continue unopposed long enough to do some real damage.

Yep.

It's idiotic. We can be trusted with HE, machine guns, and all manner of toys in country... but can't carry a concealed pistol on duty stateside.

But the good news is, guns aren't allowed on fed installations... so these things don't happen

Right?


Right?

[Perd Hapley]

DC area? Must be David Gregory's magazine running amok.

[Jamisjockey]

You guys are so fond of pointing out how rights don't exist for servicemen, so 2A and gun free zone / victim disarmament zone arguments don't apply anyways. 

 

Never said I agree with disarming the military on a base stateside.  At a minimum they should be allowed to follow state laws of concealed carry IMHO. 
Of course the Navy Yard being inside DC they were *expletive deleted*ed either way.

[vaskidmark]

At last!  The FBI has claimed jurisdiction and lead agency status.  They are only 3/4 of a mile up the road, so wonder why it took so long to get over there and put on their big boy raid jackets.

The shooter was originally described as alive and in custody - he is now shot dead.  I could make snarky comments but won't.  Identity of shooter is confirmed as Aaron Alexis from Texas.  No details on where in Texas (it's a small place, no?), his status as veteran or otherwise, or anything else.  I am impressed at how quickly they got his fingerprints run and confirmed.  I am also wondering about all those novels I have read.

Confirmed death toll is now up to 12, with no confirmation of number of wounded.

TV nooz is describing the entrance security procedures for scheduled visitors and unannounced visitors (such as to the Naval History Museum).  They are ignoring how employees get onto the base and to the entrance to Bldg 197.

Can anybody explain wht "Vince Foster" and "Warren Commission" keep running through my head?

stay safe.

[Jamisjockey]

At last!  The FBI has claimed jurisdiction and lead agency status.  They are only 3/4 of a mile up the road, so wonder why it took so long to get over there and put on their big boy raid jackets.

The shooter was originally described as alive and in custody - he is now shot dead.  I could make snarky comments but won't.  Identity of shooter is confirmed as Aaron Alexis from Texas.  No details on where in Texas (it's a small place, no?), his status as veteran or otherwise, or anything else.  I am impressed at how quickly they got his fingerprints run and confirmed.  I am also wondering about all those novels I have read.

Confirmed death toll is now up to 12, with no confirmation of number of wounded.

TV nooz is describing the entrance security procedures for scheduled visitors and unannounced visitors (such as to the Naval History Museum).  They are ignoring how employees get onto the base and to the entrance to Bldg 197.

Can anybody explain wht "Vince Foster" and "Warren Commission" keep running through my head?

stay safe.

Depends on how quickly they link him to "right wing" groups.....

[gunsmith]

DANG IT

I was really looking forward to being able to buy some ammo/guns this fall.

Prayers/condolences to those affected.

[Jocassee]

On the nooz I saw a shot of a good ole boy in blue jeans non-agency shirt and backwards ball cap loaded down with a leg rig an an A-2 style gun. If anyone  sees a picture of him try and figure out what agency he was with, I'm curious

[AZRedhawk44]

If Obama had a son?



http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/09/aaron-alexis-navy-yard-shooter.html

[T.O.M.]

Anyone catch that CBS and NBC had to do some fast retractions today when they gave the wrong name for the shooter?

An aside, when I did raid work, I didn't carry half the crap these guys seem to carry.  Hell, I wonder how these guys can move with half of this.  I saw one ATF agent with at least six handgun mags visible, and probably 6-8 AR mags.  Plus all kinds of other assorted crap.  Granted, I'm a firm believer in never having enough ammo, but I also like the option of being able to run when necessary.