Author Topic: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead  (Read 34107 times)

vaskidmark

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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #125 on: September 19, 2013, 07:50:59 PM »
Isn't Gitmo a Marine base, and the Korean DMZ an Army base?  Different policies?

Gitmo is also a prison.  Korean DMZ is not.

Yes, Gitmo is Marine.  And no, it was not a prison in 1967.

The sound of T-34s (or whatever flavor of Russkie tank it was) grinding up to their side of the wire at Oh-my-effing-Gawd-what-time-is-it in the early part of the morning will forever remain in my mind as perhaps the most effective alarm clock of all time.  We had one tank for every one of theirs and if theyu fired simultaneously I'm sure the shells would have met in the middle of no-man's land and falled harmlessly among the landmines, just like in the cartoons.

Some of the folks I know who served around the Fulda Gap also knew that feeling of puckering going from zero to 12.

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

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They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

Scout26

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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #126 on: September 19, 2013, 08:17:34 PM »
Couple of things.  In Germany when we had "Lariat Advances"*  every unit kept a portion (1-3 days, IIRC) of their basic load in their arms rooms fro when we practiced rolling to the border.  Tanks had a full combat load on them in the motorpools, that's why Armor battalion Motor Pool guards were issued three live rounds.

Sidearms and ammo to each E-? and above.  As long you DO NOT have to draw them in the morning and turn them in each evening, fine.  Otherwise the CQ (and a runner, two man rule in the arms room) will simply be permanent armorer after say 4pm.   Also, not many units have "Sidearm, one each" on their MTOE for most enlisted.  Pretty much every "E" up to E-8 in the Army has M4/M16/M203/M240/M2 as their personal weapon.  Only 11C's (Mortarman), 31B (Military Police), and 56M (Chaplin's Assistant) have sidearms as their issue weapons.  There might be a couple of others, but not many.

And yes, weapons immersion works.  The ONLY AD we had in my MP company in 4 years I was there, an E-7 PSG.  The E-1's through 6's did weapon draw turn-in 3x per day.  They were used to drawing, loading and unloading their sidearms.  The SFC, not so much.  Maybe only when he did MPDO, and even then, some/most did not draw their weapons (Stupid, but I digress).  He had to because we were so short NCO"s that we had to us Platoon Sergeants as Shift Supervisors.  Having not done it much, at the end of his shift he killed the clearing barrel.  Not once, but twice.   Yeah, that stirred up a stit shorm.   The USAREUR, Corps and Division PM all got their panties in a knot.  It would have been less bad had he shot someone.  

Some hurdles, but could be done.  

But keep in mind, not many people in the Army/military are gun people.          
« Last Edit: September 21, 2013, 05:26:02 PM by scout26 »
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Ben

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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #127 on: September 20, 2013, 01:18:11 AM »
Soooo... I guess without an EBR involved, and the wrong demographic for both the shooter and his victims, this story has pretty much fallen off the MSM radar. I saw one blurb way down the page on the Fox News site about how this guy and Snowden were vetted by the same company. I'm pretty sure both Sandy Hook and Aurora were still front page news this far past each of those incidents.
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Boomhauer

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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #128 on: September 20, 2013, 01:28:57 AM »
Send out an infantry unit with full arms, commo, night vision, & such gear into the NE Georgia mountains and you, too, can see the dawning of realization on your CO's and XO's face when you tell them that a few hillbillies with 100 year old long guns and more rounds in their pockets than teeth in their skulls could take it all away. 

Next time, I got my operational ammo, thanks.

There was an '80s movie about a NG group in the field...without ammo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Comfort_%281981_film%29

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OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #129 on: September 20, 2013, 02:54:09 AM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/24153252

A DC Metro CERT (SWAT) team was blocks away from the naval base when Alexis started shooting.  They were requested to intervene by officers on scene, and ordered to stand down by superiors.

No one knows why.

Quote
Multiple sources in the Capitol Police department have told the BBC that its highly trained and heavily armed four-man Containment and Emergency Response Team (Cert) was near the Navy Yard when the initial report of an active shooter came in about 8:20 local time.

The officers, wearing full tactical gear and armed with HK-416 assault weapons, arrived outside Building 197 a few minutes later, an official with knowledge of the incident told the BBC.

According to a Capitol Police source, an officer with the Metropolitan Police Department (MPD), Washington DC's main municipal force, told the Capitol Cert officers they were the only police on the site equipped with long guns and requested their help stopping the gunman.

When the Capitol Police team radioed their superiors, they were told by a watch commander to leave the scene, the BBC was told.

The gunman, Aaron Alexis, was reported killed after 09:00.

That's 40 minutes of free rein of the facility, when it could have only been 10-15 minutes.
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French G.

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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #130 on: September 20, 2013, 03:43:16 AM »
My only commentary on weapons immersion is that it seems to breed a culture expecting empty guns; so without some "Get off my lawn!" type like Fitz wandering around muzzle discipline goes out window. Give them all ammo.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #131 on: September 20, 2013, 08:55:08 AM »
Soooo... I guess without an EBR involved, and the wrong demographic for both the shooter and his victims, this story has pretty much fallen off the MSM radar. I saw one blurb way down the page on the Fox News site about how this guy and Snowden were vetted by the same company. I'm pretty sure both Sandy Hook and Aurora were still front page news this far past each of those incidents.


Probably got more coverage than this one will ever get.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-multiple-people-including-3yearold-shot-in-south-side-attack-20130919,0,352520.story
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #132 on: September 20, 2013, 09:27:58 AM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/24153252

A DC Metro CERT (SWAT) team was blocks away from the naval base when Alexis started shooting.  They were requested to intervene by officers on scene, and ordered to stand down by superiors.

No one knows why.

That's 40 minutes of free rein of the facility, when it could have only been 10-15 minutes.

Fog of war, and probably some confusion on who's responsible for handling the Navy Yard.
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SADShooter

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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #133 on: September 20, 2013, 09:32:39 AM »
Fog of war, and probably some confusion on who's responsible for handling the Navy Yard.

This is D.C., after all. If you'd expect a bureaucratic/jurisdictional turf war anywhere...

So glad all that post 9/11 inter-agency cooperation is on track.
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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #134 on: September 20, 2013, 09:41:58 AM »
My only commentary on weapons immersion is that it seems to breed a culture expecting empty guns; so without some "Get off my lawn!" type like Fitz wandering around muzzle discipline goes out window. Give them all ammo.

My troops had no ammo usually. muzzle discipline was good. Probably because we destroyed anyone who violated.

We could do that.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #135 on: September 20, 2013, 05:23:23 PM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/24153252

A DC Metro CERT (SWAT) team was blocks away from the naval base when Alexis started shooting.  They were requested to intervene by officers on scene, and ordered to stand down by superiors.

No one knows why.

That's 40 minutes of free rein of the facility, when it could have only been 10-15 minutes.


When seconds count, SWAT will be advised to stand down.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #136 on: September 20, 2013, 07:31:53 PM »

When seconds count, SWAT will be advised to stand down.


It worked so well in Benghazi.
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vaskidmark

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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #137 on: September 21, 2013, 03:56:00 AM »
This is D.C., after all. If you'd expect a bureaucratic/jurisdictional turf war anywhere...

So glad all that post 9/11 inter-agency cooperation is on track.

Especially in DC, this has been a long-standing issue.  Back in the 70s I witnessed a fistfight between 5 different LEA over who had jurisdiction over a traffic accident involving a pedestrian struck by an automobile that jumped the curb on the south side of Constitution Ave NW between D & E Streets.  Yes, the automobile crosed the geographical jurisdiction of 4 of those agencies but it struck the pedestrian in the geographical jurisdiction of only the 5th agency.  BTW - the pedestrian was hit less than 30 feet from the curb!

London cabbies get quizzed about how to get from Point A to Point B before they are licensed.  It takes about 3 years of study.  DC cops learn the limits of their jurisdiction (for the purpose of preventing any other of the 20+ LEA operating there from poaching) in less than a day.

If you want to talk about strange goings-on, how about we talk about the DC Metro Police acting as the lead agency for most of the morning?  Except for directing traffic on the streets, they had no official jurisdiction.  And if you really want to explode your head, figure out which agency's emergency vehicle has the right of way getting through the maze of flashing colored lights that were there.  (Hint - if a mail truck had driven down M Street it would have had the right of way over every other vehicle there!)

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.