Snowden is nominated for Nobel Peace Prize

[TommyGunn]

What has he released that has helped al-qaeda counter us?

According to newsreports I've heard AQ and others are now being schooled in the fine arts of how American Intelligence agencies work & collect intelligence, thanks to Snowdon's releases.
Does that make you sleep easier at night?
Do you believe that our enemies are never able to make good use of the information traitors such as Snowden  released?  Do you even know what Snowden released -- and if you don't then I wonder what the basis of your original question is.

[MechAg94]

- release more secrets making it even easier for Al Qaeda to counter our security forces.  Given that they're already spreading over N. Africa and the mideast, it's not as if their threat is diminishing.
OTOH given the way we've been prosecuting this @ssh@t war we  might as well just throw in the towel and let radical Islam take what it will....the end result won't be much different.


 

I would say that Congressmen and Executive Branch politicians have probably let slip more damaging information with regard to Al Queda operations over the years than anything Snowden has done so far.  

[TommyGunn]

I would say that Congressmen and Executive Branch politicians have probably let slip more damaging information with regard to Al Queda operations over the years than anything Snowden has done so far.  

That could be true, but you don't make right the wrong Snowden has done by pointing out the wrongs others have done.   Doesn't work that way.   Find those leaky kongesskritters and line 'em up against the same wall as Snowden and I'd happily have the whole gang of 'em shot. 

[Ben]

I would say that Congressmen and Executive Branch politicians have probably let slip more damaging information with regard to Al Queda operations over the years than anything Snowden has done so far.  

Snowden aside, if all the rest of us with clearances let slip what those bucket mouths have let slip over the years, we would be sent away to go make little rocks out of big rocks.

[MechAg94]

That could be true, but you don't make right the wrong Snowden has done by pointing out the wrongs others have done.   Doesn't work that way.   Find those leaky kongesskritters and line 'em up against the same wall as Snowden and I'd happily have the whole gang of 'em shot. 

Aren't you the one suggesting he should have gone to Congress with his information?  He would get 15 minutes if that and be shuttled off to solitary and prosecuted with little or no say.  The Feds have done more to people who have done a lot less.  Also, hasn't it been established that the leading Congressmen knew all this stuff was going on?

You also asked why he went to Russia?  First, he needed a country that had no extradition treaty with us, then a country that didn't mind flipping off Obama, then maybe he wanted a country that wasn't a 3rd world @@@@hole.  Not many choices out there.  We are not actively in a Cold War with Russia and China is one of our major trading partners, so our own federal govt doesn't really consider them ememies do they?  

[TommyGunn]

Yes, he should have gone to congress.  Not every kongesskritter has leaked.  That sort have thing has been going on for decades; it isn't a new phenomenon.

....he needed a country that had no extradition treaty with us, then a country that didn't mind flipping off Obama, then maybe he wanted a country that wasn't a 3rd world @@@@hole.  Not many choices out there.  We are not actively in a Cold War with Russia and China is one of our major trading partners, so our own federal govt doesn't really consider them ememies do they? 

Thank you.  You made my point.   Only criminals would worry that a country would have an extradition treaty with us.  

[Viking]

Snowden aside, if all the rest of us with clearances let slip what those bucket mouths have let slip over the years, we would be sent away to go make little rocks out of big rocks.

How come they are allowed to blabber about these things while you aren't?

[Ben]

How come they are allowed to blabber about these things while you aren't?

Well, even though I have a clearance, I don't really know anything all that interesting. Politicians seem to be able to bypass (or get a free pass) on spilling classified material that actually is both interesting and critical. I don't know if their clearance process works the same as for your Joe Schmo average .gov or .mil employee. Maybe the non-disclosure agreement they sign doesn't have the same consequences as the one I signed.

[Fitz]

According to newsreports I've heard AQ and others are now being schooled in the fine arts of how American Intelligence agencies work & collect intelligence, thanks to Snowdon's releases.
Does that make you sleep easier at night?
Do you believe that our enemies are never able to make good use of the information traitors such as Snowden  released?  Do you even know what Snowden released -- and if you don't then I wonder what the basis of your original question is.

Nearly everything that Snowden released that could conceivably help AQ is also present in the litany of tell all books by members of the intel community.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/06/16/snowden-whistleblower-nsa-officials-roundtable/2428809/


He wasn't the first to express his concerns. And from what I've read, he raised concerns before he started collecting data.

The CIA also was warned about his activities in 2009, and did nothing.


THe most helpful things for Al-Qaeda have been perpetrated by the very folks who are demonizing snowden. Drone strikes against innocents emboldened them and strengthened support, etc.

[Fitz]

Well, even though I have a clearance, I don't really know anything all that interesting. Politicians seem to be able to bypass (or get a free pass) on spilling classified material that actually is both interesting and critical. I don't know if their clearance process works the same as for your Joe Schmo average .gov or .mil employee. Maybe the non-disclosure agreement they sign doesn't have the same consequences as the one I signed.

Nothing they do has the same consequences as they do for the rest of us.

[roo_ster]

Going to Congress would have been worse than futile.  Those Dem & GOP leaders on the intel committees already knew and are just fine with it.

Simple fact is, even if he is a slimeball narcissist, he is hewing closer to his oath(1) to support the COTUS than those congresscritters or any in the CIA or NSA who have allowed this to continue.  AQ and the splodeydope contingent is less dangerous to us, physically, and less dangerous to the COTUS than CIA/NSA/etc.

FTR, most of those willing to thumb their nose at tyrannical gov'ts are bastards.  It takes a special personality type to keep on pushing like that.  Most the anti-communist dissidents in the Warsaw Pact were such personalities.



(1) Not sure if contractors swear, but I believe most DOD & federale civilian employees make an oath to support the COTUS.

[Fitz]

Going to Congress would have been worse than futile.  Those Dem & GOP leaders on the intel committees already knew and are just fine with it.

Simple fact is, even if he is a slimeball narcissist, he is hewing closer to his oath(1) to support the COTUS than those congresscritters or any in the CIA or NSA who have allowed this to continue.  AQ and the splodeydope contingent is less dangerous to us, physically, and less dangerous to the COTUS than CIA/NSA/etc.

FTR, most of those willing to thumb their nose at tyrannical gov'ts are bastards.  It takes a special personality type to keep on pushing like that.  Most the anti-communist dissidents in the Warsaw Pact were such personalities.



(1) Not sure if contractors swear, but I believe most DOD & federale civilian employees make an oath to support the COTUS.

Contractors are not sworn

[roo_ster]

Contractors are not sworn

See, that's the problem right there.  If only he had been, he would have been a more diligent guardian of the COTUS, just like all those fine NSA and CIA employees that get paid directly from Uncle Sam are. 

Given our culture's ever-strengthening regard for old-school morality and ethics, as well as the high regard our culture places on honesty and honor, I see a simple solution: more oaths.

[mr_ed]More oats![/mr_ed]

[MechAg94]

Yes, he should have gone to congress.  Not every kongesskritter has leaked.  That sort have thing has been going on for decades; it isn't a new phenomenon.

Thank you.  You made my point.   Only criminals would worry that a country would have an extradition treaty with us.  

Technically he did take and release classified date which is a crime, regardless of the reasons.  
Tehcnically, the Minutemen shot at British Soldiers which was also a crime, but we don't generally go around calling them criminals.  


Ron Paul does a radio spot in the mornings down here.  I believe he said he thought we should just pardon the guy, bring him home, call him a hero, and put an end to the whole fiasco.  I doubt that would happen though.  

[Fitz]

Technically he did take and release classified date which is a crime, regardless of the reasons.  
Tehcnically, the Minutemen shot at British Soldiers which was also a crime, but we don't generally go around calling them criminals.  


Ron Paul does a radio spot in the mornings down here.  I believe he said he thought we should just pardon the guy, bring him home, call him a hero, and put an end to the whole fiasco.  I doubt that would happen though.  

THere was discussion at the NSA about pardoning him / granting him amnesty, because of what he HASNT released yet.

[Tallpine]

Well, even though I have a clearance, I don't really know anything all that interesting.

Oh, come on - surely you know some juicy stuff about dolphins and maritime weather 

[Gowen]

Ron Paul does a radio spot in the mornings down here.  I believe he said he thought we should just pardon the guy, bring him home, call him a hero, and put an end to the whole fiasco.  I doubt that would happen though. 

Yea and within a week of him being in the US, he'd be found dead on his floor.  A incensed "patriot" would claim to have shot the traitor.

[TommyGunn]

Nearly everything that Snowden released that could conceivably help AQ is also present in the litany of tell all books by members of the intel community.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/06/16/snowden-whistleblower-nsa-officials-roundtable/2428809/


He wasn't the first to express his concerns. And from what I've read, he raised concerns before he started collecting data.

The CIA also was warned about his activities in 2009, and did nothing.


THe most helpful things for Al-Qaeda have been perpetrated by the very folks who are demonizing snowden. Drone strikes against innocents emboldened them and strengthened support, etc.

Do you think we're "deliberatly" calling in drone strikes against innocents?  
I understand that sort of thing is used by AQ and its sympathizers to garner support.  What I don't get is why we should hobble ourselves because of it.  What we SHOULD be doing is a better job of target selection, and what we SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING was prosecuting the war far more aggressively from the start.  We fire bombed Dresden into ashes in WW2 and General Curtis LeMay practically leveled Tokyo.
But today we're somehow supposed to fight a war "but we better not kill anyone."
We also won WW2 less than half the time we've been putzing around in those mideast sandpits.

Yea once in a while we bomb some Muslim wedding ..... I suppose though those Islamic Terrorists AQ & their ilk have killed very many of their own kind as well.   And of course there's the Taliban & sharia law and the cr@p it gets away with.

[Tallpine]

We fire bombed Dresden into ashes in WW2 and General Curtis LeMay practically leveled Tokyo.

And LeMay wanted to start WW3 with the USSR.

[TommyGunn]

And LeMay wanted to start WW3 with the USSR.

During Bay of Pigs *  the Cuban Missile Crisis not WW2, and JFK rightfully chose another path.   Your point being?




* - edited by author to correct factual error.

[Fitz]

Do you think we're "deliberatly" calling in drone strikes against innocents?  
I understand that sort of thing is used by AQ and its sympathizers to garner support.  What I don't get is why we should hobble ourselves because of it.  What we SHOULD be doing is a better job of target selection, and what we SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING was prosecuting the war far more aggressively from the start.  We fire bombed Dresden into ashes in WW2 and General Curtis LeMay practically leveled Tokyo.
But today we're somehow supposed to fight a war "but we better not kill anyone."
We also won WW2 less than half the time we've been putzing around in those mideast sandpits.

Yea once in a while we bomb some Muslim wedding ..... I suppose though those Islamic Terrorists AQ & their ilk have killed very many of their own kind as well.   And of course there's the Taliban & sharia law and the cr@p it gets away with.

No, I don't think that. I was just illustrating that we've done many things, of which that is only one, that have emboldened al-qaeda


Let me ask you this... if a nation started sending drones into the US to kill people they considered "terrorists," how would you feel about it?

We can't keep fighting wars on nebulous things like "terrorism."

A war is fought against a nation. If we have not declared war against pakistan, syria, or whoever, we shouldn't be sending combat aircraft into them to bomb people. Period.

Once in a while, eh? Any idea just how many noncombatants we've killed in our drone strikes? There's not near enough oversight.

The WW2 argument doesn't hold any water either. Not only have we gotten more technologically advanced, but we were fighting those NATIONS, in their entirety. Here, we continually say "we're not at war with XYZ, and then prove we're lying by sending armed aircraft into those countries to kill their people.


But this is all thread drift... So, again, I'll ask you... what has Snowden revealed that has A.) helped al qaeda, and B.) cannot be found in another source, such as the aforementioned huge amounts of tell all books, leaks (inadvertant or deliberate) by congress, etc?

[Fitz]

During Bay of Pigs not WW2, and JFK rightfully chose another path.   Your point being?

His point was, bringing LeMay into a discussion when you're trying to talk about good judgment and workable tactics is, well, kinda insane

[Gewehr98]

As a former member of the IC, I'm glad Snowden did what he did.  

They will have to re-evaluate the whistleblower protection rules, as a result.  

They will have to review the constitutionality of their intelligence and counterintelligence collection efforts.

They will have to review the Super Secret Squirrel court that's been granting all these collection activities.

That's good.

Congresscritters do not undergo security background checks.  They're granted access by sheer virtue of being voted into office.

Nothing vexed me more than sending one of my daily reports to the Beltline, only to see my exact wording on CNN a few days later.  

Turns out it was a Senate staffer.  With the permission of my wing commander, I ever-so-slightly changed the phraseology of my daily reports, with each slightly different copy sent to specific individual recipients, vs. a mass JWICS email to all addressees at once.

That's how we found out who the leak was.  

Many times I was approached by fellow 3-letter agency clowns, asking us to use our unique reconnaissance assets to do things which were patently unconstitutional.

I angered all of those twatwaffles by refusing and quoting the specific laws that forbade such activities.  Bastards.

[Ben]

Congresscritters do not undergo security background checks.  They're granted access by sheer virtue of being voted into office.

Nothing vexed me more than sending one of my daily reports to the Beltline, only to see my exact wording on CNN a few days later.  

Turns out it was a Senate staffer.  With the permission of my wing commander, I ever-so-slightly changed the phraseology of my daily reports, with each slightly different copy sent to specific individual recipients, vs. a mass JWICS email to all addressees at once.

That's how we found out who the leak was.  

Well, I guess that makes sense. If they had to go through a standard investigation, half of them would never pass. Do Congressmen and Senators all just get handed TS, or is that at least held back for those with need to know (intelligence committees, etc)?

That's a crackup on how you caught the staffer. I'm guessing nothing much happened to him.

[Fitz]

Well, I guess that makes sense. If they had to go through a standard investigation, half of them would never pass. Do Congressmen and Senators all just get handed TS, or is that at least held back for those with need to know (intelligence committees, etc)?

That's a crackup on how you caught the staffer. I'm guessing nothing much happened to him.

They all get TS from what I understand, stuff above TS is briefed on a need-to-know (committees etc)

But the problem is, they bring their staffers to this *expletive deleted*it. And staffers cant shut up