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Author Topic: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US  (Read 126561 times)

charby

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2014, 08:32:23 PM »

Why don't we send your wife to the airport to be the personal greeter for flights coming from pandemic stricken countries?

Ebola is not the flu, don't act the fool.

Yep, because the flu is a lot more contagious and kills a lot more people.

Ebola requires bodily fluid transmission and flu is transmitted airborne from water vapor in human respiration.

If Ebola transmitted as bad as some people think it does, don't you think most of the people in West Africa would be dead by now?
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charby

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2014, 08:34:59 PM »

Why don't we send your wife to the airport to be the personal greeter for flights coming from pandemic stricken countries?

Better yet, at my place of work I get to work in close contact with people who travel internationally quite regularly to the hot bed of diseases parts of the world: Africa, SE Asia, Middle East, Eastern Europe and South America.

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Ron

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2014, 08:37:39 PM »

Has there ever been a flu epidemic that mobilized the US to send the military to help contain the spread of the disease?



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charby

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2014, 08:43:03 PM »

Has there ever been a flu epidemic that mobilized the US to send the military to help contain the spread of the disease?





Not military but the government got involved with trying to stop it, (teaser, didn't work out so well)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_swine_flu_outbreak

« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 08:52:08 PM by charby »
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roo_ster

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Re: Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2014, 08:44:46 PM »

Glad the dude spewing blood out all orifices is not at the hospital where my wife works.  I suggested she avoid working prn south of i635 until this passes.  Though if hypervelocity exsanguinator infected others herebouts chances are they will end up at her hospital.

As for the "this is the usa not the turd world" myopia, that is quite relevant and true.  Until it is not.  Meaning that if too many cases erupt in too short a time all bets are off.  The lengths to which the hospital will go to isolate the wonderfully projectile bleeding boost to our vibrancy are limited.   Exceed that local limit and you end up with the ususal natural disaster scene where the hospital is a mess.  Nurses and doc then catch it and then it starts to get interesting.

And wouldnt it suck if the power grid got ate up while the fine fine immigrant and his microbiological stow aways were in isolation?  Or in a few weeks if he infected others?  Tornado hurricane or terrorist no matter.  I got your turd world right here buddy!
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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2014, 09:13:22 PM »

I'm waiting for something like this to pop up in India or China.

That's my concern. And massive world economic fallout after that.

And I think the sheer population density, much higher than Africa etc., would overwhelm their medical system if it got going.

Per-capita (according to the WHO) patient/hospital bed ratio in the U.S. is roughly 3.3/1000

China it's 3.8/1000 (although I question the veracity, worker's paradise propaganda, or a straw mat in a hut counting as a "bed".)

India it's something like .8/1000  [tinfoil]
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Balog

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2014, 09:37:08 PM »

How can Ebola become a problem in the US? US is not third world Africa.

Become airborne.

Be weaponized as airborne.

Have a small handful of Levi cases, then tens of thousands of folks who have the flu and panic as the initial symptoms are the Sam and overwhelm medical systems.

Have it hit China or India and second order economic effects.


But you're right, anything other than pretending it doesn't exist and can never hurt us is just fear mongering.
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MicroBalrog

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charby

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2014, 10:09:21 PM »

Become airborne.

Be weaponized as airborne.

Have a small handful of Levi cases, then tens of thousands of folks who have the flu and panic as the initial symptoms are the Sam and overwhelm medical systems.

Have it hit China or India and second order economic effects.


But you're right, anything other than pretending it doesn't exist and can never hurt us is just fear mongering.

I take it you never took a microbiology class in college?

Here is a real quick primer:

For a body fluid transmitted virus to become tough enough to be airborne would take a lot of evolution. Viruses are not living organisms like bacteria, they are an RNA chain coated in protein. Ebola has a pretty weak protein shell and would have to go through millions if not trillions of mutations to develop a thick enough protein coat that will allow the RNA inside to stay viable outside of the host for an extended period of time carried by a different vector. A virus can only multiply inside the living cells of a host by combining with the host's RNA.

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2014, 10:11:29 PM »

Fear is a funny thing.


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MicroBalrog

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2014, 10:14:09 PM »

I don't genuinely think that most of the people who are talking this way about Ebola are literally afraid of it (or cowards in any way). I think Balog in particular is a very brave person.

On the other hand many people seem to derive a strange joy from discussing the worst possible contingencies. Endless examples of this can be seen on this forum.
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Balog

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2014, 10:30:20 PM »

I take it you never took a microbiology class in college?

Here is a real quick primer:

For a body fluid transmitted virus to become tough enough to be airborne would take a lot of evolution. Viruses are not living organisms like bacteria, they are an RNA chain coated in protein. Ebola has a pretty weak protein shell and would have to go through millions if not trillions of mutations to develop a thick enough protein coat that will allow the RNA inside to stay viable outside of the host for an extended period of time carried by a different vector. A virus can only multiply inside the living cells of a host by combining with the host's RNA.



Reston strain was airborne, so, you know, it's impossible and all except for that time it happened already.
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roo_ster

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2014, 10:34:37 PM »

It is nearly impossible for Ebola to spread in the US

Yeah, panic is not warranted, but the title is not supported by the underlying data. 

All you need is for a local outbreak to exceed the capacity of local med facilities to manage it with the a great level of care that thus far have been applied.  Run out of the hospitals' storm troopers (intensive care / trauma nurses & docs and similarly oriented techs) and you start moving into the more mundane sort.  A great many of whom are products of duh-versity quotas/grants(1), political pull (county hospitals), and the mania to put charting before all else.  Treating a patient with ebola while adhering to best practices is a far cry from taking care of little old ladies who just got a lap chole.

A "better" place for an outbreak in Texas is along the southern border, where the illegals have already destroyed the health care infrastructure.  Del Rio or Brackettville or Marfa for instance. 



(1) Two Bill Gates scholarship snowflakes who work as PCAs got their RN education at Really Expensive Private School paid for by Bill Gates' foundation.  Lots of bragging about how well she was going to do, but she managed to cock up her cert exam.  Her almost-RN cert cost ~20x what we paid for my wife's RN ejjumication. 



I take it you never took a microbiology class in college?

Here is a real quick primer:

For a body fluid transmitted virus to become tough enough to be airborne would take a lot of evolution. Viruses are not living organisms like bacteria, they are an RNA chain coated in protein. Ebola has a pretty weak protein shell and would have to go through millions if not trillions of mutations to develop a thick enough protein coat that will allow the RNA inside to stay viable outside of the host for an extended period of time carried by a different vector. A virus can only multiply inside the living cells of a host by combining with the host's RNA.

All well and good.  But it seems that other related viruses have made the jump, such as the outbreak of Reston virus a few years back.  Thankfully, was not transmitted to human (Correction: I think it was transmitted to humans but has not yet mutated so as to cause us great harm to humans just yet.  Tough on baboons, though.).  But similar enough to ebola to be misdiagnosed as such, IIRC.  And there was the case of ebola that was transmitted over a distance at the Army facility between the baboons.  No explanation yet, but it is hopeful that it was from some excessive sputum becoming an aerosol in the confines of the lab.

[Oh, I see Balog got to the Reston bit.]
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charby

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2014, 10:42:12 PM »

Reston strain was airborne, so, you know, it's impossible and all except for that time it happened already.

Granted same genus but different species. I never said impossible, but more likely unrealistic.

Google Marburg virus if you want to lose some sleep. Marburg virus is same family as the Ebola viruses.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2014, 11:04:45 PM »

Describes the Canadian study with a minimum of hysteria and speculation
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-20341423


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brimic

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2014, 11:15:13 PM »

The highest levels of ship design and engineering of the time declared the Titanic to be unsinkable. Where people speak in absolutes with overconfidence about the untested, I see hubris.

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2014, 11:21:09 PM »

IMO, Ebola is unlikely to be a big problem in the United States, all other factors aside, because it's a known quantity.

However, a little panic/upset over Ebola will sharpen the spear a bit to be prepared for some unknown quantity, like the next bad flu variant etc.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #43 on: September 30, 2014, 11:25:29 PM »

The highest levels of ship design and engineering of the time declared the Titanic to be unsinkable. Where people speak in absolutes with overconfidence about the untested, I see hubris.



The Titanic's sinking was not a failure of design. Had the crew followed the safety protocol for ships of this design, it would not have sunk.

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charby

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2014, 11:40:30 PM »

Reston strain was airborne, so, you know, it's impossible and all except for that time it happened already.

Strain would mean a sub species, not the same species. Plus I never said impossible.
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charby

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #45 on: September 30, 2014, 11:44:46 PM »

The highest levels of ship design and engineering of the time declared the Titanic to be unsinkable. Where people speak in absolutes with overconfidence about the untested, I see hubris.



I fail to see any absolutes mentioned, remember biology is a lot of tested and accepted theories unlike chemistry or physics where the science is laws.
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zahc

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #46 on: September 30, 2014, 11:52:47 PM »

So if Ebola is found in one person in your current city and your boss is requiring you to go to work or lose you job, what will you do?


Some measures can be taken. Gloves (forget handwashing...gloves are better), surgical masks,  and safety glasses would go a long way in ensuring you survive until the quarantine phase. These types of illnesses are hard to contract if you just safeguard your precious bodily fluids appropriately.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #47 on: October 01, 2014, 12:06:02 AM »

This lady gave it a whirl
http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/25/health/ebola-fatu-family


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Balog

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #48 on: October 01, 2014, 12:22:04 AM »

Granted same genus but different species. I never said impossible, but more likely unrealistic.

Google Marburg virus if you want to lose some sleep. Marburg virus is same family as the Ebola viruses.


No one is saying it's terribly likely, just something to be aware of.  No different than carrying a gun for the very very unlikely chance I will need to defend myself, except maintaining a minimum awareness of this is easier cheaper and carries no legal liabilities.

And, as I pointed out, all that is needed is the public perception that there may be an Ebola epidemic to cause a panic. I think that is far more likely. Still not all that probable but more so than an actual epidemic.
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tokugawa

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #49 on: October 01, 2014, 12:48:04 AM »

I don't like the fact this guy apparently was ill with symptoms of flu, went to the hospital, then was sent home for a few days and later admitted in a very sick state. The opportunities for spreading the infection were present.

 The truth is, neither the  "OMG we are are all gonna die" camp or the "don't be a hysterical rumor monger" camps have a clue- we just don't know. Yet.

 The problem I have is that the official lying and obfuscation have grown to be SOP.
 There is no gov. info  anybody can really trust.
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