Author Topic: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US  (Read 145904 times)

zxcvbob

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #250 on: October 13, 2014, 05:54:19 PM »
Gives new meaning to "silent but deadly"
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brimic

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #251 on: October 13, 2014, 05:55:16 PM »
The problem I have is with the arrogant twit talking heads- whether it be the president, the cdc director, or news anchors- they refuse to acknowledge that they do not know what they do not know. We are literally stuck in a political talking point that is on par with 'flat earthers.'
The refusal to budge from the 'can only be spread by bodily fluids and direct contact' narrative flies in the face of plenty of anecdotal evidence that health care workers are contracting ebola without either.

A 'real' scientist would assume that he knows nothing, and work from square zero to figure out what is happening.

This is not science that our 'ministries of science' are peddling, its pure bullshit.
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charby

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #252 on: October 13, 2014, 06:08:30 PM »
I know monkeys can throw *expletive deleted* it pretty hard, but last I checked they can't throw it through a wall. It spread to rooms that had no infected monkeys.

Quote
Infected primates caged on one side of the room and uninfected primates caged on the other side, no physical mixing.

I didn't read that as separate rooms.
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Neemi

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #253 on: October 13, 2014, 06:12:26 PM »
The line between "spit droplet" and "airborne" seems to be kind of vague at best to me.



Our standard precautions for "droplet" are that it's transmissible by body fluids and/or a several foot radius of said person (however far they can sneeze). Think flu, colds, etc. Your medical team should be showing up in gowns, regular masks, gloves, and possibly goggles. Depends on how spitty you are...

"Airborne" is far more serious. These germs are smaller and can just hang out for a while. These patients get quarantined pretty quick: negative pressure treatment room so they aren't sharing air with the rest of the department, hospital staff wears the heavy duty masks (N95 or PAPR) as well as the gowns, gloves, goggles. Hospital staff has to recertify on the N95 on a yearly basis or we CANNOT care for these patients due to risk of exposure. Airborne nastiness includes measles, chicken pox, and TB. Oh - and we make the patients wear a mask, too. We have to deep clean the room after they leave... after we let it sit empty for four hours.

I hope that helps.

charby

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #254 on: October 13, 2014, 06:14:02 PM »
The line between "spit droplet" and "airborne" seems to be kind of vague at best to me.



I look at it from the point of view of gravity, spit droplet will hit the ground quickly, while airborne can be carried through the air.
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Balog

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #255 on: October 13, 2014, 06:19:21 PM »
I would like more clarification on this issue, too.  

I can make the distinction between water as an aerosol and water dissolved into the air.  An aerosol is small to super-tiny droplets.  Anything form sea spray to fog.  Water dissolved into the air presents itself as absolute humidity.  The two act on the hardware I care about in different ways.

But as to the difference between "airborne" and "aerosol" in the medical/biological sense, I could use a hint.



That's the thing: IIRC, it has happened.  In a USAMRIID Level 4 protocol lab.  They could not explain how, though(1), so claims of "proven" seem premature while at the same time "hasn't happened yet" can no longer be claimed.  Not a happy place to be, but there you are.

I am not referring to Reston Virus.

But, again, you don't see any goobers form USAMRIID running in front of a camera to claim it can't happen. 



(1) And, yes, poo and urine flinging was postulated, as well as some sort of aerosolized bodily fluids.  They could not hammer any of them  down to their satisfaction.

I said it had not been proven, which is correct. And again, I started this thread off by saying it could mutate into a form both virulent to humans and airborne. I have seen no evidence that this has happened in this case.
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MillCreek

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #256 on: October 13, 2014, 06:22:08 PM »
http://www.medpagetoday.com/InfectiousDisease/Ebola/48067

A nursing view of the DFW Ebola matter.
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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #257 on: October 13, 2014, 06:23:11 PM »
I look at it from the point of view of gravity, spit droplet will hit the ground relatively quickly, while airborne can be carried through the air.

FIFY

How long depends on droplet size, air currents, etc.  Watch how long a dust mote or piece of fluff from brushing the cat can stay suspended in the air.  Also look around during a heavy fog, and those are often droplets big enough to see that are drifting quite well on tiny air currents.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #258 on: October 13, 2014, 06:33:18 PM »
Yea a real hack rofl.
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #259 on: October 13, 2014, 06:35:19 PM »
I didn't read that as separate rooms.

If you had read it as adjacent enclosures in the same room you would be correct though


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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KD5NRH

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #260 on: October 13, 2014, 06:43:28 PM »
http://www.medpagetoday.com/InfectiousDisease/Ebola/48067

A nursing view of the DFW Ebola matter.

Raises the question of *why* the proper methods for decon and contaminated clothing removal aren't practiced and enforced; even if you're not in surgery or a particular infectious disease ward, there's no way of knowing what else a new patient might have in addition to their primary complaint.  A chronic allergy sufferer with a broken leg might also be coming down with the flu, for example.  IMO, the proper way of removing aprons, gowns, gloves, etc. doesn't really add much time or effort even if you're doing it over and over.  

I did have to do a lot of that when I was working pest control; if nothing else, it eliminates the question of "did I have these gloves on when I pulled the festering mouse corpse out of the puddle of organophosphate pesticide?" or "have I properly cleaned my respirator/goggles/apron since the sprayer tip clogged and splashed me in the face with who-knows-what?" if you just do it the safe way every time.  When I was doing treatments in hospitals and nursing homes, I made a point of changing gloves and shoe covers at each department boundary, even though I touched as little as possible.

brimic

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #261 on: October 13, 2014, 06:48:20 PM »
Yea a real hack rofl.
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His wiki page shows that he's the medical equivalent of a community organizer- par for the course with this administration.
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charby

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #262 on: October 13, 2014, 06:53:21 PM »
FIFY

How long depends on droplet size, air currents, etc.  Watch how long a dust mote or piece of fluff from brushing the cat can stay suspended in the air.  Also look around during a heavy fog, and those are often droplets big enough to see that are drifting quite well on tiny air currents.

...but if you would study the different known species of Ebolavirus, you would see that they all have a weak protein shell that disrupts when outside of bodily fluids. It desiccates very easily and becomes unviable, hence why it hasn't become an airborne virus yet.

Here is some reading for everyone, might squelch some of the concerns about it going airborne.

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/10/5980553/ebola-outbreak-virus-aerosol-airborne-pigs-monkeys

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brimic

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #263 on: October 13, 2014, 07:11:11 PM »
...but if you would study the different known species of Ebolavirus, you would see that they all have a weak protein shell that disrupts when outside of bodily fluids. It desiccates very easily and becomes unviable, hence why it hasn't become an airborne virus yet.

Here is some reading for everyone, might squelch some of the concerns about it going airborne.

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/10/5980553/ebola-outbreak-virus-aerosol-airborne-pigs-monkeys



"Ebola is not like the flu. You're not going to catch the disease from simply being across the room from someone who has it."

...and yet we have a case of a nurse in the United states who has contracted it while wearing proper PPE and taking proper precautions.

Quote
But just because this happened between pigs and monkeys doesn't mean it's likely to happen between people. The big difference is that pigs cough and sneeze a lot when they're sick with Ebola — way more than people do.

'doesn't mean its likely'

'Of course, it's entirely possible that a big spit droplet from a human Ebola patient could fly a few feet through the air and land on someone else. But current Ebola protection measures seem to guard against this. Health-care workers are told to cover their faces and bodies with protective gear, for example, and patients are generally separated from the general population by a buffer zone of plastic fencing.'

In essence they are saying that they don't think it can be transmitted by sneeze/cough droplets....

It might be wise to take extra precautions... as I've said before, the experts don't know that they don't know.

The ASSumption is that the transmission is only through bodily fluids- has anyone checked any other vectors? Could there be a difficult to detect mite that is transmitting it? Could there be something else that noone has thought of or even looked into yet?
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #264 on: October 13, 2014, 07:11:36 PM »
The results section of this study too
http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/179/Supplement_1/S108.long


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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charby

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #265 on: October 13, 2014, 07:14:33 PM »
...and yet we have a case of a nurse in the United states who has contracted it while wearing proper PPE and taking proper precautions.

Yet she probably slipped up somewhere and got it.

Quote
It might be wise to take extra precautions... as I've said before, the experts don't know that they don't know.

Yep, you don't see me heading on a flight to go look at trees in Western Africa. :)
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Ron

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #266 on: October 13, 2014, 07:19:29 PM »
Yet she probably slipped up somewhere and got it.

Yep, you don't see me heading on a flight to go look at trees in Western Africa. :)

I suggest we tell the folks in west Africa if they want to come see our trees they must sit in quarantine for three weeks and be tested for the virus before we'll allow them to visit.

Let's do it for the children  ;)
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brimic

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #267 on: October 13, 2014, 07:30:44 PM »
Yet she probably slipped up somewhere and got it.


That's the official party line. The alternative is that she didn't slip up and contracted it anyway, which would not be too supportive of the 'experts' narrative.

I'm more inclined to believe a front line nurse than a seat warmer in a political office.
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Balog

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #268 on: October 13, 2014, 07:33:23 PM »
That's the official party line. The alternative is that she didn't slip up and contracted it anyway, which would not be too supportive of the 'experts' narrative.

I'm more inclined to believe a front line nurse than a seat warmer in a political office.

If a disease this virulent was airborne we'd know it, because there would be dozens if not hundreds of cases in America right now, and the African epidemic would be much much worse.

I've gotten MRSA twice from hospitals, I'm always ready to believe that someone just screwed up. They can't manage to wash their damn hands normally, I doubt they can manage high level PPE and sanitation procedures on an extended basis.
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KD5NRH

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #269 on: October 13, 2014, 07:36:26 PM »
As every parent knows, things don't even need to be properly aerosolized to travel to odd places.  

Give my 3 year old some cake, and stand facing her wearing gloves, mask, apron, goggles, etc.

As you're scraping frosting off the back of your neck and cleaning it out of your left ear, explain to me again how anything other than total, impermeable coverage is adequate to stop Ebola.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #270 on: October 13, 2014, 07:44:49 PM »
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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brimic

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #271 on: October 13, 2014, 07:45:44 PM »
If a disease this virulent was airborne we'd know it, because there would be dozens if not hundreds of cases in America right now, and the African epidemic would be much much worse.

I've gotten MRSA twice from hospitals, I'm always ready to believe that someone just screwed up. They can't manage to wash their damn hands normally, I doubt they can manage high level PPE and sanitation procedures on an extended basis.
There may just be doizens or hundreds of cases already, but it won't be known for 20 days or so.

I have to concede a point though. Again today, I witnessed a woman at work (not the most outwardly hygenic person, I'll add), take the newspaper into the bathroom and then place it back onto the lunch table when she came back out 15 minutes later. I'm leaving a nasty note on the paper. [barf]
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 07:55:56 PM by brimic »
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"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
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Scout26

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #272 on: October 13, 2014, 07:48:44 PM »
I didn't read that as separate rooms.
Yes, totally isolated, separate rooms.   No mixing of food, people or utensils.  Nothing that had ever been in Room "A"  ever allowed in Room "B".   The only possible transmission source was.....wait for it......

The HVAC system.

So yeah.  Airborne.



And as someone who's entire life revolves around infection prevention procedures, I think this goes here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-JA1ffd5Ms
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Balog

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #273 on: October 13, 2014, 07:52:12 PM »
There may just be doizens or hundreds of cases already, but it won't be known for 20 days or so.

Average (not possible but very unusual) incubation time is around a week. If ebolaboy had infected lots of folks, lots of folks would be popping now.
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Balog

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #274 on: October 13, 2014, 07:53:16 PM »
Yes, totally isolated, separate rooms.   No mixing of food, people or utensils.  Nothing that had ever been in Room "A"  ever allowed in Room "B".   The only possible transmission source was.....wait for it......

The HVAC system.

So yeah.  Airborne.



And as someone who's entire life revolves around infection prevention procedures, I think this goes here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-JA1ffd5Ms

I think people may be discussing different instances. Do you have a link to the one you're talking about, I would be interested to read about it. Thanks.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.