Author Topic: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US  (Read 145888 times)

French G.

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #325 on: October 15, 2014, 06:09:43 AM »
I wonder what case number the tipping point for panic is?
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RocketMan

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #326 on: October 15, 2014, 06:28:32 AM »
Some interesting claims were made by the nurse's union over protocols, or the lack thereof, during the initial treatment of Duncan.
Story here
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #327 on: October 15, 2014, 06:30:48 AM »
Good thing that stuff is so hard  to catch. Some other stories coming out of that hospital are a little hair raising if true.
Not getting my faith in our superior first world health care system bolstered at all.


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makattak

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #328 on: October 15, 2014, 08:05:53 AM »
Another health care worker that treated Mr. Duncan has tested positive for Ebola and has been hospitalized at Presby in Dallas.
Story here

"An additional health care worker testing positive for Ebola is a serious concern, and the CDC has already taken active steps to minimize the risk to health care workers and the patient," the CDC said.

That makes two.

And the family are considering legal action against the hospital? Arrest them all as accessories to (attempted so far) murder.

None of them are sick and the health care workers are? THEY KNEW HE HAD EBOLA and told no one. That makes them guilty as well.
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So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

makattak

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #329 on: October 15, 2014, 08:10:42 AM »
And the family are considering legal action against the hospital? Arrest them all as accessories to (attempted so far) murder.

None of them are sick and the health care workers are? THEY KNEW HE HAD EBOLA and told no one. That makes them guilty as well.

(Incidentally, this is not just anger at their sense of entitlement. This is good policy: make it clear anyone who knowingly aids and ebola patient in getting to this country or afterwards without making known his condition will be sent directly to jail. Confiscate all the assets (if any) used to help him, too- pour encourager les autres)
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

KD5NRH

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #330 on: October 15, 2014, 09:19:18 AM »
http://fox59.com/2014/10/15/2nd-healthcare-worker-tests-positive-for-ebola-at-dallas-hospital/

Quote
Claim: Duncan wasn’t immediately isolated

On the day that Duncan was admitted to the hospital with possible Ebola symptoms, he was “left for several hours, not in isolation, in an area where other patients were present,” union co-president Deborah Burger said.

Up to seven other patients were present in that area, the nurses said, according to the union.

A nursing supervisor faced resistance from hospital authorities when the supervisor demanded that Duncan be moved to an isolation unit, the nurses said, according to the union.[/quote]

If true, this one should have some heads rolling.  As I recall, Presbyterian has cameras in several areas, so it shouldn't be hard to prove or disprove...unless they've hired Lois Lerner to handle their security tapes.

Quote
Claim: The nurses’ protective gear left their necks exposed

After expressing concerns that their necks were exposed even as they wore protective gear, the nurses were told to wrap their necks with medical tape, the union says.

Last I checked, most of those tapes aren't designed to be impermeable barrier materials by themselves.  How hard would it really have been to get some proper hoods at least?  Remember, this is Dallas we're talking about; medical supply companies all over the place.  TI is just up the road with clean room gear that's better than tape and paper masks.  Not ideal, but it would buy them a couple of days to get something overnighted from anywhere on the continent.

Quote
“They were told to use medical tape and had to use four to five pieces of medical tape wound around their neck. The nurses have expressed a lot of concern about how difficult it is to remove the tape from their neck,” Burger said.

And how hard it would be to do that without spreading any contamination on the tape.

Quote
Claim: At one point, hazardous waste piled up

“There was no one to pick up hazardous waste as it piled to the ceiling,” Burger said. “They did not have access to proper supplies.”

No excuse whatsoever; it's a damn hospital.  Everything they use that can't be sterilized for reuse should be treated exactly the same; as a potentially severe biohazard.  Again, we need to take the approach that we can't be sure the guy who presented with a broken leg isn't also an asymptomatic typhoid carrier.

Quote
Claim: Nurses got no “hands-on” training

“There was no mandate for nurses to attend training,” Burger said, though they did receive an e-mail about a hospital seminar on Ebola.

Again, not a magic germ.  Avoid contact with it in the same way you would avoid contact with any other germ.  Treat every gun as if it's loaded, and every patient leaking anything as if it's the next plague.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 10:02:21 AM by KD5NRH »

MechAg94

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #331 on: October 15, 2014, 09:26:46 AM »
Good thing that stuff is so hard  to catch. Some other stories coming out of that hospital are a little hair raising if true.
Not getting my faith in our superior first world health care system bolstered at all.



There are probably lots of hospitals around the country that would surprise people with their issues.  That stuff never gets publicized much. 

I was thinking that a good law would be to outlaw secret or close settlements or agreements in malpractice cases.  It all should be public knowledge.
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Ron

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #332 on: October 15, 2014, 09:48:16 AM »
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-mine/2014/10/14/us-isnt-done-with-ebola

Quote
Researchers predict more cases in the United States based on flight patterns.


They say to be prepared for up to 6000 cases if there are no flight bans.
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makattak

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #333 on: October 15, 2014, 09:50:10 AM »
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-mine/2014/10/14/us-isnt-done-with-ebola
 

They say to be prepared for up to 6000 cases if there are no flight bans.

BUT BUT BUT, IF WE BANNED THE FLIGHTS SOMEONE WOULD STILL GET THROUGH!!!

I MEAN, YEAH, IT MIGHT BE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 6000 CASES AND 600 CASES, BUT SINCE IT WON'T STOP THEM ALL, WE CAN'T DO IT BECAUSE RACISM!


(Disclaimer: I know and have heard several times that there are no direct flights from the affected area. We can, however, stop issuing and put a hold on all visas to the infected areas and further quarantine or turn away every citizen returning from said affected areas and any other person with evidence of travel to/from those areas. That's what is meant by "travel ban.")
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

brimic

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #334 on: October 15, 2014, 10:03:28 AM »
BUT BUT BUT, IF WE BANNED THE FLIGHTS SOMEONE WOULD STILL GET THROUGH!!!

I MEAN, YEAH, IT MIGHT BE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 6000 CASES AND 600 CASES, BUT SINCE IT WON'T STOP THEM ALL, WE CAN'T DO IT BECAUSE RACISM!


(Disclaimer: I know and have heard several times that there are no direct flights from the affected area. We can, however, stop issuing and put a hold on all visas to the infected areas and further quarantine or turn away every citizen returning from said affected areas and any other person with evidence of travel to/from those areas. That's what is meant by "travel ban.")

The CDC director said something along the lines that a travel ban would make it difficult to stop the spread of Obola.  :facepalm:
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KD5NRH

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #335 on: October 15, 2014, 10:07:56 AM »
BUT BUT BUT, IF WE BANNED THE FLIGHTS SOMEONE WOULD STILL GET THROUGH!!!

IMO, we need to apply the same logic to other aspects of government:
  • Since there's no man-portable gun out there with a 100% one-shot-stop rate, we must disarm all Federal officers
  • Since we can't get all the drugs off the street, we must disband the DEA
  • Same for BATFE, since they can't get all the illegal guns
  • Still some pollution.  Bye, EPA
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makattak

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #336 on: October 15, 2014, 10:11:19 AM »
The CDC director said something along the lines that a travel ban would make it difficult to stop the spread of Obola.  :facepalm:

Yeah, I love that one. As though we would not be able to make special circumstances for aid workers.

That, by itself, showed me he was a political hack and not to be trusted.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

brimic

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #337 on: October 15, 2014, 10:35:09 AM »
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

brimic

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"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
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charby

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #339 on: October 15, 2014, 10:54:34 AM »
BUT BUT BUT, IF WE BANNED THE FLIGHTS SOMEONE WOULD STILL GET THROUGH!!!

I MEAN, YEAH, IT MIGHT BE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 6000 CASES AND 600 CASES, BUT SINCE IT WON'T STOP THEM ALL, WE CAN'T DO IT BECAUSE RACISM!


(Disclaimer: I know and have heard several times that there are no direct flights from the affected area. We can, however, stop issuing and put a hold on all visas to the infected areas and further quarantine or turn away every citizen returning from said affected areas and any other person with evidence of travel to/from those areas. That's what is meant by "travel ban.")

I wonder what the Libertarian thought is on travel bans?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 11:37:37 AM by charby »
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #340 on: October 15, 2014, 10:58:27 AM »
IMO, we need to apply the same logic to other aspects of government:
  • Since there's no man-portable gun out there with a 100% one-shot-stop rate, we must disarm all Federal officers
  • Since we can't get all the drugs off the street, we must disband the DEA

Let's not pretend we've not heard this argument made.
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brimic

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #341 on: October 15, 2014, 11:02:18 AM »
Let's not pretend we've not heard this argument made.

Actually, if we are to hold our government to being consistant and accountable, those are legitimate arguements.
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AJ Dual

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #342 on: October 15, 2014, 11:11:07 AM »
I wonder what the Libertarian thought it is on travel bans?

The purpose of "government" in Libertarian ideology is to protect the life, liberty, and property of the people in any ways the people can't for themselves, or the private sector can not.

Knowingly or unknowingly passing on a lethal contagion is an act of aggression against the life and liberty of others. So roaming around free with a deadly communicable disease automatically violates the Libertarian NAP.

To paraphrase Tom Clancy, (ironic, since he's got a strong authoritarian streak...) Libertarianism is not a suicide pact.

If anything, under a Libertarian system, "travel bans" and quarantine might actually have some teeth. A private transportation concern, be it a plane, a ship, a train, or maybe even a private road may actually ban travel for the infected more effectively than the .gov ever would. It would be in the financial interests of these companies to not carry infected people, either because of direct threat to their profits, the well being of it's employees, or simply because of the loss of good will with the public/customer base if it was found out they facilitated the transportation of a person with a deadly disease.

I'd argue that the .gov makes it worse, because of it's tendency to engage in negative-profiling, and misplaced egalitarian desires to engage in Political Correctness. Kind of like how the TSA gives the 90 year old American woman in a wheelchair a strip-search, and waves through a bunch of Middle Eastern women in burqas.

i.e. "Travel ban from Africa is racist, you can't do that! Keep flying!" meanwhile, an airline under a Libertarian system would be allowed to discriminate if it so wished if it thought that was in it's best interests as a business.
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Ron

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #343 on: October 15, 2014, 11:20:44 AM »
Being in an enclosed space with a symptomatic  patient seems like it should call for extreme precautionary measures. Whatever the researchers are doing the medical care givers should do to protect themselves and the public.


Quote
Abstract

Secondary transmission of Ebola virus infection in humans is known to be caused by direct contact with infected patients or body fluids. We report transmission of Ebola virus (Zaire strain) to two of three control rhesus monkeys (Macaca mulatta) that did not have direct contact with experimentally inoculated monkeys held in the same room. The two control monkeys died from Ebola virus infections at 10 and 11 days after the last experimentally inoculated monkey had died. The most likely route of infection of the control monkeys was aerosol, oral, or conjunctival exposure to virus-laden droplets secreted or excreted from the experimentally inoculated monkeys. These observations suggest approaches to the study of routes of transmission to and among humans.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673695928413
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 11:24:44 AM by Ron »
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Balog

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #344 on: October 15, 2014, 11:21:18 AM »
I want to publically apologize to Balog for calling him Chicken Little. I though that this thread was going to be a ZOMG we are all going to die because its our government's fault, much to my surprise and pleasure this has been a very productive thread of good information and very intelligent debate.

Apology accepted, and no hard feelings. On another forum I frequent I've been accused of being an Information Controller paid by the feds to squash panic and lie about how much of a non-threat ebola is so I felt it added a nice symmetry.  :lol:
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KD5NRH

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #345 on: October 15, 2014, 11:23:19 AM »
Actually, if we are to hold our government to being consistant and accountable, those are legitimate arguements.

As would be disbanding the IRS and eliminating all Federal income taxes because they can't get everyone to pay a fair share.

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #346 on: October 15, 2014, 11:24:35 AM »
I wonder what the Libertarian thought it is on travel bans?

Not a libertarian any more, more a classical liberal/paleoconservative.  In any case, libertarianism is not anarchy, no matter how hard the an-caps and suchlike want to claim it.  Thus, there is a case for gov't protecting life, liberty, and property with force from foreign aggression.

Being in an enclosed space with a symptomatic seems like it would call for extreme precautionary measures. Whatever the researchers are doing the medical care givers should do.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673695928413

Heart-warming, that is.

Apology accepted, and no hard feelings. On another forum I frequent I've been accused of being an Information Controller paid by the feds to squash panic and lie about how much of a non-threat ebola is so I felt it added a nice symmetry.  :lol:

Might both be correct?  :lol:
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Balog

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #347 on: October 15, 2014, 11:28:35 AM »
Not a libertarian any more, more a classical liberal/paleoconservative.  In any case, libertarianism is not anarchy, no matter how hard the an-caps and suchlike want to claim it.  Thus, there is a case for gov't protecting life, liberty, and property with force from foreign aggression.

You should look into the neo-reaction, I think you'd like it.


Quote
Might both be correct?  :lol:

 :O

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KD5NRH

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #348 on: October 15, 2014, 11:36:37 AM »
Being in an enclosed space with a symptomatic  patient seems like it should call for extreme precautionary measures. Whatever the researchers are doing the medical care givers should do to protect themselves and the public.

More, really; samples in test tubes are a lot more predictable than delirious live patients.

charby

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #349 on: October 15, 2014, 11:39:12 AM »
Apology accepted, and no hard feelings. On another forum I frequent I've been accused of being an Information Controller paid by the feds to squash panic and lie about how much of a non-threat ebola is so I felt it added a nice symmetry.  :lol:

Thank-you!
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