Author Topic: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US  (Read 145866 times)

charby

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #350 on: October 15, 2014, 11:42:43 AM »
Being in an enclosed space with a symptomatic  patient seems like it should call for extreme precautionary measures. Whatever the researchers are doing the medical care givers should do to protect themselves and the public.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673695928413

Kind of what I had been reading about all the time on how the Zaire ebolavirus can infect people that are in contact or very close to an infected person.
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zahc

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #351 on: October 15, 2014, 11:50:16 AM »
Quote
TI is just up the road with clean room gear that's better than tape and paper masks.  

I am intimately familiar with all Dallas area TI fab cleanroom gear. Cleanroom gear is not suitable for this. The material is thin and semi see - thru. It is not waterproof. The veils are either thin mesh or polyester fabric. Cheap Paper masks would be better. The only purpose of the gear is to contain clothing fibers and hairs and skin cell clumps. I just don't want anyone to try using cleanroom gear thinking it doe smore than it does. It's great for hot-weather beekeeping though. There do exist Tyvek chemical suits which would be a lot better.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 11:53:50 AM by zahc »
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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #353 on: October 15, 2014, 12:17:15 PM »
IMO, we need to apply the same logic to other aspects of government:
  • Since there's no man-portable gun out there with a 100% one-shot-stop rate, we must disarm all Federal officers
  • Since we can't get all the drugs off the street, we must disband the DEA
  • Same for BATFE, since they can't get all the illegal guns
  • Still some pollution.  Bye, EPA
  • Bad beef anywhere? Toss the USDA

 sounds like a decent swap to me......

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #354 on: October 15, 2014, 12:32:49 PM »
I am intimately familiar with all Dallas area TI fab cleanroom gear. Cleanroom gear is not suitable for this. The material is thin and semi see - thru. It is not waterproof. The veils are either thin mesh or polyester fabric. Cheap Paper masks would be better. The only purpose of the gear is to contain clothing fibers and hairs and skin cell clumps. I just don't want anyone to try using cleanroom gear thinking it doe smore than it does. It's great for hot-weather beekeeping though. There do exist Tyvek chemical suits which would be a lot better.

Interesting; last one I was in used the Tyvek hooded "bunny suits."  They may have been concerned with more than clean room standards, though, as they were also handling some moderately dangerous chemicals just outside the clean room area.  
At any rate, the Tyvek outfit is fairly common from what I've seen.  (Last food production facility I worked at used them for guests and fairly often on cleanup days, since they were acid resistant.  IIRC, in the multiple pallet quantities we ordered, they were under $4 each.)  Add a full face respirator, tape over the zipper and the overlaps at the gloves, boots and face, and it would be pretty much the better of the suits that have been shown in some of the Africa photos.  Not real level IV gear, but a heck of a lot better than what the Fox article described with exposed skin at the neck.

brimic

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #355 on: October 15, 2014, 12:44:32 PM »
Quote
Interesting; last one I was in used the Tyvek hooded "bunny suits."  They may have been concerned with more than clean room standards, though, as they were also handling some moderately dangerous chemicals just outside the clean room area.  
At any rate, the Tyvek outfit is fairly common from what I've seen.  (Last food production facility I worked at used them for guests and fairly often on cleanup days, since they were acid resistant.

Yep, the tyvec is cheap/light, and as long as it doesn't get wet should be fairly effective if its taped up properly. The local home depot probably has them in stock.
Saranex, is far better- chemical resistant, water proof, but about 20x as expensive. If I were on decon detail, I'd wouldn't go with anything less than saranex. I've handled materials in Saranex that would kill you outright in small quantities if you didn't have the gear on.
 Level A gear would be much better. The good thing about Level-A is you can stand in a kiddie pool of disinfectant and be scrubbed and hosed off, and reuse the gear many times over. There is no way you could get infected with it on short of the suit being compromised or it not being deconned correctly. The downside is that its HOT, and your limited to how much air you have in your SCBA.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 12:49:45 PM by brimic »
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Ron

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #356 on: October 15, 2014, 01:14:20 PM »
The media needs to track down our MIA ebola czar and find out what the plan is for containing this virus here stateside.

http://thefederalist.com/2014/10/14/president-obama-already-has-an-ebola-czar-where-is-she/
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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #357 on: October 15, 2014, 01:31:23 PM »
The media needs to track down our MIA ebola czar and find out what the plan is for containing this virus here stateside.

http://thefederalist.com/2014/10/14/president-obama-already-has-an-ebola-czar-where-is-she/

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MillCreek

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #358 on: October 15, 2014, 02:05:32 PM »
Level A gear would be much better. The good thing about Level-A is you can stand in a kiddie pool of disinfectant and be scrubbed and hosed off, and reuse the gear many times over. There is no way you could get infected with it on short of the suit being compromised or it not being deconned correctly. The downside is that its HOT, and your limited to how much air you have in your SCBA.

Back when I was doing the hazmat training officer and hazmat response thing, I used to dread suiting up in the Chemturion suits, because I would come out five pounds lighter just from the sweat.  And this was in Seattle weather.  I can hardly imagine what it would be like in a hot climate.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #359 on: October 15, 2014, 02:28:06 PM »
Back when I was doing the hazmat training officer and hazmat response thing, I used to dread suiting up in the Chemturion suits, because I would come out five pounds lighter just from the sweat.  And this was in Seattle weather.  I can hardly imagine what it would be like in a hot climate.

If you're on a fixed air system, you blow cool air in.  Makes a huge difference, though it pretty much requires separate temp controls for each person, since what's comfy for one might be freezing or sweaty for others.

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #360 on: October 15, 2014, 03:00:33 PM »
^^^I can see that happening in a fixed space with air plumbing, like a lab or healthcare facility.  I wonder if they now have portable air cooling units for the free-range suits, as you are cleaning up the acid spill from the tanker truck or similar.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

charby

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #361 on: October 15, 2014, 03:14:44 PM »
And the snowball continues to roll downhill and pick up speed....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/10/15/ebola-stricken-nurse-flew-on-a-passenger-plane-a-day-before-being-diagnosed/

I don't know about picking up speed

From the article

Quote
This health-care worker flew on a Frontier Airlines flight from Cleveland to Dallas-Fort Worth with more than 130 other passengers. She did not have nausea or vomit on the plane, so the risk to anyone around her is “extremely low,” Frieden said.
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roo_ster

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #362 on: October 15, 2014, 03:55:21 PM »
I don't know about picking up speed

From the article
Quote
This health-care worker flew on a Frontier Airlines flight from Cleveland to Dallas-Fort Worth with more than 130 other passengers. She did not have nausea or vomit on the plane, so the risk to anyone around her is “extremely low,” Frieden said.

Did she drop a deuce in the plane lavatory?  Have a runny nose? (See hte mythbusters episode for xmission of bodily fluid if one has a runny nose).

Hopefully, the other passengers are OK.
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brimic

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #363 on: October 15, 2014, 03:58:44 PM »
Back when I was doing the hazmat training officer and hazmat response thing, I used to dread suiting up in the Chemturion suits, because I would come out five pounds lighter just from the sweat.  And this was in Seattle weather.  I can hardly imagine what it would be like in a hot climate.

They used to have us kick a soccer ball around in them on training days to get used to the lack of dexterity.
Yes, nothing like emptying a 1/2 gallon of sweat out of your boots when taking the gear off.
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brimic

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #364 on: October 15, 2014, 04:00:35 PM »
^^^I can see that happening in a fixed space with air plumbing, like a lab or healthcare facility.  I wonder if they now have portable air cooling units for the free-range suits, as you are cleaning up the acid spill from the tanker truck or similar.

We used vests filled with compartments of 'freezer gel,' It kept you cool for awhile, but then again, the SCBA only fed you air for awhile anyway.
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SADShooter

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #365 on: October 15, 2014, 04:03:49 PM »
I don't know about picking up speed

From the article


I'm told she boarded the plane with a fever but didn't report it immediately because it didn't meet a protocol threshold. Like others, I'm increasingly skeptical of the "gotta be projectile vomiting blood to be infectious" standard.
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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #366 on: October 15, 2014, 05:03:02 PM »
^^^I can see that happening in a fixed space with air plumbing, like a lab or healthcare facility.  I wonder if they now have portable air cooling units for the free-range suits, as you are cleaning up the acid spill from the tanker truck or similar.

Depends on the circumstances; if they can get a truck close enough for hoses, and you're not in a situation that would either endanger the hoses or possibly create a worse situation by entangling you with them, then supplying multiple suits with continuous air from a large filtration unit is a lot more practical than several SCBAs.  After all, this isn't like a smoke situation where you could easily switch air supplies by holding your breath for a few seconds; if you run out, you're out, and even getting out of the contaminated area doesn't help unless you can hold your breath long enough for at least a minimal decon.

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #367 on: October 15, 2014, 06:49:01 PM »
Quick !!!  Anyone else see anything wrong with this picture?  (One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong...")

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/health/2nd-Ebola-Patient-Traveled-Between-Dallas-Cleveland-Before-Showing-Symptoms-279291962.html?_osource=SocialFlowTwt_DFWBrand

 :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:


And finally, someone that doesn't have their head completely up their fourth point.

Quote
On Wednesday afternoon Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins said he planned to enact a legal control order restricting the travel of health care workers who treated Ebola patient Thomas Duncan by blocking them from using public transportation, including buses and airliners.

The control order would give the county legal authority to restrict the movement of those being monitored for the potentially deadly virus.

Although not a strict quarantine of the ~75 people that treated DEG, it's a start.  They are "self monitoring" according to health officials.

 :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 06:53:29 PM by scout26 »
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charby

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #368 on: October 15, 2014, 07:18:07 PM »
I was goggling to see how long Ebola can live in snot and came across this article in Women's Health from a few weeks ago.

They interview two Drs, one who is a Ebola expert and another who is a disease/immunology. Its a quick read and very informative.

http://www.womenshealthmag.com/health/ebola-virus-questions

My favorite is the last question:

Quote
WH: Is there anything else you think our readers should know?
 Dr. Lahey:
 I think the big thing to focus on is that people are naturally curious about this, it’s exotic, it’s new, it’s concerning, it’s getting a lot of media play. Knowing that there are in fact incredibly low odds of this causing any problems in the United States or developed world, and even if it does, the likely scope of this is going to be small. Which is why it’s important for us to keep our eye on the real global health ball: There are millions of people dying every year of things like malaria, HIV, diarrheal illnesses. I hope the coverage puts it in that context. Ebola is novel and unusual, but a very small impact compared to malaria, HIV, and TB.
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Scout26

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #369 on: October 15, 2014, 07:47:04 PM »
Yes, but we can treat/cure Malaria, HIV, and TB.  We have establish methods to prevent their spread (sans DDT and political correctness with HIV).  We have no prevention methods, treatments or cures for Ebola.  And the CDC/administration is refusing to use the best known tools to prevent its spread.
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
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Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

MillCreek

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #370 on: October 15, 2014, 08:04:20 PM »
The local news is reporting that the second nurse, prior to her flight, called the CDC for permission to fly.  The CDC denied such permission but she flew anyway.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #371 on: October 15, 2014, 08:23:02 PM »
There a fox piece out saying they gave permission but they contradict their zomg headline in the article by admitting she didn't tell em about fever


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brimic

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #372 on: October 15, 2014, 08:31:13 PM »
I was goggling to see how long Ebola can live in snot and came across this article in Women's Health from a few weeks ago.

They interview two Drs, one who is a Ebola expert and another who is a disease/immunology. Its a quick read and very informative.

http://www.womenshealthmag.com/health/ebola-virus-questions

My favorite is the last question:

Reading assignment: http://www.amazon.com/The-Black-Swan-Improbable-Robustness/dp/081297381X

A worldwide pandemic of a deadly disease is a rare  low probability event, but its impact is irretractable.

Normalcy bias will cause people to greatly underestimate such odds despite the mounting evidence around them.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

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tokugawa

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #373 on: October 15, 2014, 08:46:28 PM »
Reading assignment: http://www.amazon.com/The-Black-Swan-Improbable-Robustness/dp/081297381X

A worldwide pandemic of a deadly disease is a rare  low probability event, but its impact is irretractable.

Normalcy bias will cause people to greatly underestimate such odds despite the mounting evidence around them.


yep- I have seen people deny problems AFTER they happened. Life threatening safety issues with heavy equipment.

charby

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Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #374 on: October 15, 2014, 09:13:31 PM »
Yes, but we can treat/cure Malaria, HIV, and TB.  We have establish methods to prevent their spread (sans DDT and political correctness with HIV).  We have no prevention methods, treatments or cures for Ebola.  And the CDC/administration is refusing to use the best known tools to prevent its spread.

There are DDT and pyrethroids (stuff bed nets are currently treated with) resistant mosquito populations now. So DDT is no longer the saving grace that the chemical happy crowd is always pointing at.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140224204808.htm

HIV/AIDS, last time I checked there was no cure, what is interesting it spreads in similar ways of the different Ebola species, not all but many of the way. Currently HIV is a manageable disease but it will kill you eventually, quicker unless you got Magic Johnson's money. Plus if I remember correctly HIV/AIDS had spread to a lot of people before they really knew what it was and how it spread. Not sure how the non politically correct method would have worked, also where would have put all those people infected with HIV? FDR's abandoned internment camps?

Yes, Malaria can be treated, but it is also not contagious, have to be bit by the mosquito that has the malaria parasite.

Maybe things like Marburg and Ebola viruses are nature's way of controlling the population of a certain species? This time its the human species turn for a population reduction? There are a lot more viruses and bacterial species then there is of any vertebrate or invertebrate and they evolve a lot faster than the other animals, I think Darwin would have appreciated the wee nasty beasties.
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