Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US

[charby]

What am I to see?

People today are healthier, live longer, and eat more than ever before.

World hunger is on the retreat.

There are many many many social problems.

But there's no meaningful argument against the fact that medical and industrial progress has consistently caused the simple problems of starvation and plague to retreat, step by painful step.

Just in some numbers:

When the Soviet Union collapsed, the number of people living in undernourishment conditions was about a billion. Today - despite the fact that the population of Earth has clearly grown - this is 805 million. Less people are starving in absolute numbers. Comparable to the grim darkness of the pre-industrial age, when hunger was commonplace in even the wealthiest parts of the world, this is nothing short of fantastic.

Malaria is on the decline, and has last year been eliminated in yet another country. HIV is on decline in Africa - a disease from which we have no cure and no vaccine, and yet civilization is making its inevitable advance.

Basic hygiene works. NBC suits work. Quarantines work. Civilization works.

In the battle between a virus and the United States of America, my money is on the United States of America, President Barack Obama, and the United States Army.

They're going to win, again.

A lot of food gains were made on availability of cheap hydrocarbons to make fertilizer and selective breeding. Also water is being depleted faster than it can be replenished from some areas that currently producing food, also soil is being degraded where it will be less productive in time, usually do too much alkali in the soil from over watering in arid regions.

Something else about Phosphorus fertilizer is getting expensive or harder to get because the easy mined stuff is drying up. I'll have to find my source on that, I also might be confusing that with Potassium, but I'm pretty sure there is a lot of that is easy to get.  

[brimic]

A lot of food gains were made on availability of cheap hydrocarbons to make fertilizer and selective breeding. Also water is being depleted faster than it can be replenished from some areas that currently producing food, also soil is being degraded where it will be less productive in time, usually do too much alkali in the soil from over watering in arid regions.

Something else about Phosphorus fertilizer is getting expensive or harder to get because the easy mined stuff is drying up. I'll have to find my source on that, I also might be confusing that with Potassium, but I'm pretty sure there is a lot of that is easy to get.  

D00000Mz0rz!!!111

I heard about the phosphorus shortage a few years ago, it is a thing. Just have to start grinding up people's bones for fertilizer. 

[KD5NRH]

http://www.whdh.com/story/26802882/dallas-nurse-speaks-out-about-ebola-preparedness

Dallas nurse dimes the hospital out for making them use suits that exposed part of their necks.

This is the part I find utterly indefensible; I could possibly excuse the first day, but I'm pretty sure the proper equipment was in stock somewhere.  Right now, if I had the cash, and assuming the manufacturer keeps some stock, there could be a Chemturion 3525 in my grubby little hands tomorrow morning.  Overnight shipping within CONUS is hardly an undue hardship in a case like this, and having worked for an oilfield company, I know full well that for (a lot, to me, but hardly a drop in the bucket for a hospital) more money, I could find someone willing to pick it up from ILC within the hour, drive it to the nearest airport, put it on a chartered plane, and fly it directly to my local airport.

If the stuff is available, there's no excuse for not having it within 24 hours.  Really, they should have had something on hand of at least very good level III, just given that it is a frickin' hospital, and sick people go there all the time.  Heck, judging from the media photos, Frisco FD was far better prepared for a biohazard incident than a major hospital.

[French G.]

Oh geez, not this crap again. The anti-Malthusian gleefest. Ok, Malthus was wrong. He didn't forsee the green revolution. Yay for you. Go breed like rabbits.  Thing is, Malthus was right. He just missed by a matter of degrees. Earth is finite. The amount of arable land, the resources we can extract, the level of discord people will tolerate over scarcity. I know that there is a lot of love for pie in the sky BS like space mining, colonizing other worlds, etc, but it's not here. A little population control through prosperity wouldn't hurt.*

*The surest form of population control is capitalist freedom. In developed countries where women have careers we don't have baby booms. Crazy crap like China's mandated birth policy are unnecessary and disgusting.

[roo_ster]

I don't disagree and more than likely most immigration could be stopped from the hot zones, well unless they went through Mexico first.

The question is who is going to got to the hot zones and keep the people from immigrating elsewhere and spreading the disease to others? Damn near be impossible to ban the entire world from entering the US.

Yet another "If it isn't 100% effective, we should not do it because badfeelz."

mak mentioned the new-fangled flying machines and automated counting devices.  

Also, bordering countries are putting up travel bans.  So, travel from Liberia in the face of airborne travel bans will include overland travel to a neighboring country, evading THEIR travel ban, and getting false docs/bribing their way on to a plane.  All of which takes time, money, access to other resources.  Time during which the traveler can come down with obvious symptoms or just plain die on the way.  Either way, that means they don't get on the flight from Lagos or Dakar to London and then to DFW. 

This is rapidly moving to the right on the Pareto Chart, addressing less and less frequent/likely events.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_chart


And thus far, we can estimate that for every DEG stopped by the various bans that there are two nurses in America who won't contract ebola with one of them likely dying.

This is not rocket science, folks.

[KD5NRH]

And thus far, we can estimate that for every DEG stopped by the various bans that there are two nurses in America who won't contract ebola with one of them likely dying.

Nursing schools are cranking them out by the dozens.  One dead nurse is a small price to pay to avoid offending anyone.   

[charby]

Yet another "If it isn't 100% effective, we should not do it because badfeelz."

Never said we shouldn't do it, but who and how is it going to be done?

[roo_ster]

Never said we shouldn't do it, but who and how is it going to be done?

Been addressed multiple times on this and other ebola-a-go-go threads.  Done it my own self at least once.

[RoadKingLarry]

Maybe actually use the TSA for something besides grandma groping.  Pretty darn simple. Every legal international traveler has a passport/visa. If your travel originated or shows you stopped  in one of the epidemic countries you ain't getting in. Use the FEMA camps for quarantine and hold them 28 days and then if they're clear fine, let them in. Or US based carriers could screen on the originating point and just not let them on the plane. If a foreign based carrier won't play ball tell them they can land in some other country.

[makattak]

Never said we shouldn't do it, but who and how is it going to be done?

I guess it was ignored missed before.

Here, I'll spell it out.

HOW TO ENACT A TRAVEL BAN FROM A COUNTRY:

1. Stop issuing visas to individuals from that country.
2. Freeze ALL existing Visas from that country.
3. Deny entrance anyone whose travel itinerary indicates origin from that country
4. Deny entrance to anyone whose passport indicates travel through or from that country
5. IF you allow individuals from that country, quarantine them upon arrival in your own country.
6. Ban any airline from landing if they do not assist in the above.


Will some get through? Very likely.
The process to do so is significantly harder now and doesn't entail walking into Monrovia's airport and buying a ticket to Dallas.

[charby]

I guess it was ignored missed before.

Here, I'll spell it out.

HOW TO ENACT A TRAVEL BAN FROM A COUNTRY:

1. Stop issuing visas to individuals from that country.
2. Freeze ALL existing Visas from that country.
3. Deny entrance anyone whose travel itinerary indicates origin from that country
4. Deny entrance to anyone whose passport indicates travel through or from that country
5. IF you allow individuals from that country, quarantine them upon arrival in your own country.
6. Ban any airline from landing if they do not assist in the above.


Will some get through? Very likely.
The process to do so is significantly harder now and doesn't entail walking into Monrovia's airport and buying a ticket to Dallas.

What about backlash from business? DuPont, BASF, Sygenta, Mosanto, various American oil companies travel to that part of the world quite regularly.

[Ron]

What about backlash from business? DuPont, BASF, Sygenta, Mosanto, various American oil companies travel to that part of the world quite regularly.

Public shaming them, accusing them of demanding profits over the health and safety of the public.

If you want to do face to face business in a hot zone then you'll have to be quarantined and/or tested before reentering the country.

We aren't there yet but how it will or should work is a good question and it needs to be worked out.

[makattak]

What about backlash from business? DuPont, BASF, Sygenta, Mosanto, various American oil companies travel to that part of the world quite regularly.

I guess it was ignored missed before.

Here, I'll spell it out.

HOW TO ENACT A TRAVEL BAN FROM A COUNTRY:

1. Stop issuing visas to individuals from that country.
2. Freeze ALL existing Visas from that country.
3. Deny entrance anyone whose travel itinerary indicates origin from that country
4. Deny entrance to anyone whose passport indicates travel through or from that country
5. IF you allow individuals from that country, quarantine them upon arrival in your own country.
6. Ban any airline from landing if they do not assist in the above.


Will some get through? Very likely.
The process to do so is significantly harder now and doesn't entail walking into Monrovia's airport and buying a ticket to Dallas.

[Fitz]

What about backlash from business? DuPont, BASF, Sygenta, Mosanto, various American oil companies travel to that part of the world quite regularly.

it's almost as if you aren't reading...

[charby]

it's almost as if you aren't reading...

I am reading it but nothing is black and white. Just because I question or disagree with something doesn't mean either side is right.

I'm also sort of surprised that small government people want the government to solve the problem.

[SADShooter]

I am reading it but nothing is black and white. Just because I question or disagree with something doesn't mean either side is right.

I'm also sort of surprised that small government people want the government to solve the problem.

Most of even the mouth-frothiest libertarians will agree that territorial sovereignty/integrity and public health are legitimate government mandates.

[Ron]

National defense and border security seem to OK with most small government types.

[RoadKingLarry]

Most of even the mouth-frothiest libertarians will agree that territorial sovereignty/integrity and public health are legitimate government mandates.

QFT and, where's the "like" button?

[Scout26]

If we could do it at Ellis Island in the early 1900's then we sure as hell could do it now.  And again, yes some will leak through, but "a few" is sure a hell of lot better then "all". 

Again.  The only way this will "burn out" is to build a wall around it.  That's what a quarantine does:

STOP THE SPREAD

Why is that so *expletive deleted*ing hard to understand?  No treatment, no cure, no vaccine.  The only thing we can do is:

STOP THE SPREAD

Failing to do so is criminal in that you condemn hundreds/thousands/millions of people to death.  Might as will crank up the ovens (again) if that's the case.

It's genocide(s).  Potentially on a scale not seen since the 1920's-1940's and at a rate that rivals the Black Death.

[Scout26]

Several good articles in today's WATI

How our "we know better" have condemn millions...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/14/charles-hurt-fight-the-spread-of-ebola-by-wiping-o/

Why I don't believe the CDC (or any other part of the .gov) anymore:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/15/crowley-president-obama-ebola-and-the-total-collap/

Lies built upon mind-boggling incompetence:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/15/joseph-curl-obamas-spectacular-incompetence-turns-/


Doesn't matter how many Americans have to die, we have to protect the President's upcoming blanket Illegal Alien Amnesty, so that there will forever be a Democrat Majority in both houses and President.  "Party Before Country", people !!  Even if it has to be built upon a pile of dead bodies.   

[lupinus]

I am reading it but nothing is black and white. Just because I question or disagree with something doesn't mean either side is right.

I'm also sort of surprised that small government people want the government to solve the problem.

These things are perfectly fine with most small government types because it's a valid function of government. Small governemt doesn't mean no government.

[Scout26]

These things are perfectly fine with most small government types because it's a valid function of government. Small governemt doesn't mean no government.

Bingo!!  These are the things the .gov is tasked with:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Let's look at the relevant parts:

Domestic Tranquility:  Having a deadly disease run rampant will not insure domestic tranquility.
Common Defense:  There are more then just Indians and overseas invaders to defend against.
Promote the general welfare:  Preventing disease(s) would fit here as well.
Secure the Blessing of Liberty:  Hard to pass that on when (and they) are dead.

Improving and securing public health is part and parcel of Civilization and what .gov should be doing.

[Fitz]

These things are perfectly fine with most small government types because it's a valid function of government. Small governemt doesn't mean no government.

He wasn't serious. It was a smarmy jab.

[Ron]

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/220925-cdc-ebola-patient-may-have-had-symptoms-aboard-flight

A second Texas nurse diagnosed with Ebola who flew on a commercial flight with 132 others might have shown symptoms of the disease while aboard the flight.

Frontier CEO Dave Siegel said in a message to employees Wednesday evening that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention notified the company that the passenger might have shown symptoms "earlier than initially suspected; including the possibility of possessing symptoms while onboard the flight."

Siegel said the airplane, which apparently made five additional trips after the one with Vinson, will remain out of service and be cleaned a fourth time. He also noted that "out of an abundance of caution" the company had put six crew members on paid leave for 21 days, the maximum incubation period for the virus.

[tokugawa]

I'm also sort of surprised that small government people want the government to solve the problem.

 I am so damned tired of this automatic BS response by libs-progs, whatever-
 Standard load of crap- want less government regulation? that means we all run right out and tear down the traffic lights so we can run over grannies, get rid of the EPA and pour all our waste oil down the storm drain, and rub pesticides on the lettuce-
 This kind of disingenuous BS is a pollutant to intelligent discourse. Anyone around here should know better.
 
 And IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE -all we are asking is that the Government actually DO the job it was created FOR, it's FIRST PRINCIPAL, to Provide for the security  of the PEOPLE of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Yes, we want them to do their job, the job they were tasked with from day one.