Author Topic: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US  (Read 145938 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #525 on: October 27, 2014, 08:42:44 AM »
Yea I think they do teach docs and nurses something in med school.  That's why I look to them for advice on how to handle diseases. Not politicians or folks from other professions


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

dogmush

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,671
Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #526 on: October 27, 2014, 09:27:51 AM »
Yea I think they do teach docs and nurses something in med school.  That's why I look to them for advice on how to handle diseases. Not politicians or folks from other professions


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I live with a nurse.  That's not necessarily a great plan.

The amount of hubris and "that doesn't apply to me" in American healthcare is hard to over estimate. 

Quarantine of potentially infected people until the incubation period is over is niether new nor ground breaking epidemiology.  This nurse is just pissed off because she didn't expect it to happen to her.

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #527 on: October 27, 2014, 09:40:23 AM »
When was the last quarantine?
You think your wife would come home to you if she thought she'd infect you?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

lupinus

  • Southern Mod Trimutive Emeritus
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,178
Re: Re: Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #528 on: October 27, 2014, 09:46:17 AM »
Yea I think they do teach docs and nurses something in med school.  That's why I look to them for advice on how to handle diseases. Not politicians or folks from other professions


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Exactly. I look to docs for advice on and treatment of diseases.

I look to politicians and other folk to set reasonable and proper public policies. Like if you spent the past few weeks in Africa bathing in bloody diarrhea from Ebola patients park your ass and home and don't come out for the next three weeks, call us if you start bleeding funny.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

MillCreek

  • Skippy The Wonder Dog
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,964
  • APS Risk Manager
Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #529 on: October 27, 2014, 09:59:04 AM »
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/27/nurse-new-jersey-ebola-quarantine/17993491/

And now, the NJ nurse is OK to be released.  Amazing as to the overnight change in the clinical consensus as to the necessity for quarantine.
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,199
Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #530 on: October 27, 2014, 10:02:07 AM »
The amount of hubris and "that doesn't apply to me" in American healthcare is hard to over estimate. 

Quarantine of potentially infected people until the incubation period is over is niether new nor ground breaking epidemiology.  This nurse is just pissed off because she didn't expect it to happen to her.

And this nurse comes on the heels of the network medical consultant, an M.D., who agreed to a voluntary self-quarantine after returning from one of those countries and then thought it was a good idea to go out for dinner, and the doctor whose idea of self-quarantine included taking a subway to go bowling, and then returning to his apartment by cab.

I don't know if "hubris" is even an adequate word to describe such monumentally disconnected attitudes.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,199
Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #531 on: October 27, 2014, 10:03:29 AM »
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/27/nurse-new-jersey-ebola-quarantine/17993491/

And now, the NJ nurse is OK to be released.  Amazing as to the overnight change in the clinical consensus as to the necessity for quarantine.

Yeah, because she has been free of symptoms for 24 hours. As if that proves anything when the incubation period is 21 days.

 :facepalm:

So now she wants to go to Maine, where I'm sure there isn't a hospital within 100 miles of anywhere that would be even remotely prepared to deal with her if she should become symptomatic.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

TechMan

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,562
  • Yes, your moderation has been outsourced.
Re: Re: Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #532 on: October 27, 2014, 10:04:51 AM »
Exactly. I look to docs for advice on and treatment of diseases.

I look to politicians and other folk to set reasonable and proper public policies. Like if you spent the past few weeks in Africa bathing in bloody diarrhea from Ebola patients park your ass and home and don't come out for the next three weeks, call us if you start bleeding funny.


It appears they are loosing some of the restrictions due to White House criticism.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/10/27/new-york-gov-cuomo-loosens-ebola-quarantine-restrictions-after-criticism/


Quote
Under the revised guidelines, medical professionals who have had contact with Ebola patients will be quarantined at home and receive twice-daily monitoring if they have no symptoms. Family members will be allowed to stay, and friends may visit with the approval of health officials. The state will also pay for any lost compensation, if they are not paid by a volunteer organization.
Quote
Hawkmoon - Never underestimate another person's capacity for stupidity. Any time you think someone can't possibly be that dumb ... they'll prove you wrong.

Bacon and Eggs - A day's work for a chicken; A lifetime commitment for a pig.
Stupidity will always be its own reward.
Bad decisions make good stories.

Quote
Viking - The problem with the modern world is that there aren't really any predators eating stupid people.

tokugawa

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,846
Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #533 on: October 27, 2014, 10:14:00 AM »
Political correctness is a deadly Western Affliction.

dogmush

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,671
Re: Re: Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #534 on: October 27, 2014, 10:30:28 AM »
Quote
Under the revised guidelines, medical professionals who have had contact with Ebola patients will be quarantined at home and receive twice-daily monitoring if they have no symptoms. Family members will be allowed to stay, and friends may visit with the approval of health officials. The state will also pay for any lost compensation, if they are not paid by a volunteer organization.

That is not a quarantine.  Words have meanings folks.

Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy
You think your wife would come home to you if she thought she'd infect you?

That depends on whether or not she noticed the pile of new AR parts on my workbench before work.  >:D  But the Nurse in NJ obviously would.  She doesn't KNOW she's not infected, she just knows she's not symptomatic.  Again, words have meanings.  I don't understand why she would even risk it if she has a family (or even likes her nieghbors).

She's leaving a biological hot zone.  She may or may not be infected.  Nobody, at this point, knows.  Why wouldn't you err on the side of caution?

KD5NRH

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,926
  • I'm too sexy for you people.
Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #535 on: October 27, 2014, 10:38:06 AM »
You think your wife would come home to you if she thought she'd infect you?

Do you think any parent would drive drunk with their kid in the car if they really considered the possibility that they might get in a fatal wreck?

"It can't happen to me" drives a lot of stupid behavior.

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #536 on: October 27, 2014, 10:46:07 AM »
You guys know there's a blood test? And she passed it? And the only symptom was a single reading by someone at the airport? That was countered by a real doc at the hospital


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

KD5NRH

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,926
  • I'm too sexy for you people.
Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #537 on: October 27, 2014, 12:19:19 PM »
You guys know there's a blood test? And she passed it? And the only symptom was a single reading by someone at the airport? That was countered by a real doc at the hospital

Last I heard, PCR could be reliable as much as two days before onset of symptoms.  That still means 19 days before you can trust a negative result.

Now, a viable alternative - if a proper lab is available and has time to prioritize the samples - might be to run a PCR every other day, so that you would have a 24-48 hour warning before the patient becomes contagious, but the consequences of one false negative could be catastrophic if the patient is being allowed to go about their regular daily life during that time.

Scout26

  • I'm a leaf on the wind.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25,997
  • I spent a week in that town one night....
Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #538 on: October 27, 2014, 06:32:06 PM »
Two quick things:

1.  In a surprise move Gov. Quinn has instituted a 21 day quarantine for anyone coming into Illinois from Ebolaland.  Based on the recommendation of the State Director of Public Health.  (If NY/NJ/IL can do this, why not the Feds....Oh yeah, got to keep Amnesty viable until after the election.  :mad: :facepalm:)  Anywho, Is the CDC really giving Obama bad advice or is he simply ignoring their advice and sending them out to do a Kevin Bacon at the end of Animal House. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDAmPIq29ro

2.  A lab test may turn up negative, however, that could simply mean that there's not enough Ebola Virii coursing through your blood yet.  Hence the 21* day incubation period.  But again, politics are running this show, not healthcare and infection control specialists.





*- WHO says up to 42 days.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 10:39:24 PM by scout26 »
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

dogmush

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,671
Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #539 on: October 27, 2014, 06:47:18 PM »
You guys know there's a blood test? And she passed it? And the only symptom was a single reading by someone at the airport? That was countered by a real doc at the hospital


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Blood test is for antibodies, not virii, and as such can have some major variations as to when it goes positive, as was mentioned upthread.

You misunderstand quarantine still.  Symptoms or no, if someone, anyone, comes into this country after a known stay in a place with active Ebola, they stay a guest of the .gov until 21 days after the last known time they were in the vicinity of the virus.  This accounts for things like unknown failures of PPE, or unexpected transmission vectors.

This woman is very probably clean.  So what?  Very probably is not definitely.  For Christ's sake we quarantine DOGS and CATS coming from Europe so our precious fido's don't get EU canine liberalism, but we'll roll the dice on Ebola?

lupinus

  • Southern Mod Trimutive Emeritus
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,178
Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #540 on: October 27, 2014, 07:19:44 PM »
Blood test is for antibodies, not virii, and as such can have some major variations as to when it goes positive, as was mentioned upthread.

You misunderstand quarantine still.  Symptoms or no, if someone, anyone, comes into this country after a known stay in a place with active Ebola, they stay a guest of the .gov until 21 days after the last known time they were in the vicinity of the virus.  This accounts for things like unknown failures of PPE, or unexpected transmission vectors.

This woman is very probably clean.  So what?  Very probably is not definitely.  For Christ's sake we quarantine DOGS and CATS coming from Europe so our precious fido's don't get EU canine liberalism, but we'll roll the dice on Ebola?
Hell, try traveling just to a different state and a horse without the proper "my horse isn't carrying nothin" paperwork.

Does it suck to be the person in quarantine? Sure. But it sucks more when you get ebola off the last dudes bowling ball or the person in the next booth over starts hacking.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Ron

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,881
  • Like a tree planted by the rivers of water
    • What I believe ...
Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #541 on: October 27, 2014, 10:01:33 PM »
good read

Quote
21 Days
An expert in biological warfare warns against complacency in public measures against Ebola.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/10/21-days/381901/?single_page=true
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #542 on: October 27, 2014, 10:07:08 PM »
It is a good read. Short on hysteria


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

MillCreek

  • Skippy The Wonder Dog
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,964
  • APS Risk Manager
Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #543 on: October 27, 2014, 10:45:39 PM »
It is a good read. Short on hysteria


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Wow, the famous Dr. Steve Hatfill of anthrax accusations fame!  I wondered what became of him.
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #544 on: October 27, 2014, 10:52:14 PM »
He's been spending the 5.8 mill he got

We never did figure out where the anthrax came from


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

MillCreek

  • Skippy The Wonder Dog
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,964
  • APS Risk Manager
Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #545 on: October 27, 2014, 11:07:00 PM »
^^^That Dr. Bruce Ivins turned out to be a dead end, too, if I recall.  Although he had quite the issues.
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #546 on: October 27, 2014, 11:23:42 PM »
He supposedly kinda confessed in nut house


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

RoadKingLarry

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,841
Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #547 on: October 27, 2014, 11:53:15 PM »
I don't see the .gov  doing things much different than they are now if they wanted a massive epidemic. :rofl: [tinfoil]
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

Scout26

  • I'm a leaf on the wind.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25,997
  • I spent a week in that town one night....
Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #548 on: October 28, 2014, 01:49:19 PM »
good read

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/10/21-days/381901/?single_page=true

Excellent read.  Dr. Hatfield makes many of the points that I, and some others here, have made.   The Fed.gov is screwing the pooch on this, and needlessly exposing Americans to this deadly disease.  
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 04:13:51 PM by scout26 »
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

makattak

  • Dark Lord of the Cis
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,022
Re: Ebola: first case has been confirmed in the US
« Reply #549 on: October 28, 2014, 02:05:54 PM »
good read

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/10/21-days/381901/?single_page=true

One thing he didn't expound on that I have read recently is the danger that ebola will find a suitable host species in North America. We have all kinds of bats in this country, for example.

That quarantine is part of making sure we don't have it spread to a "reservoir" in this country like it is in Africa (and all the way to Bangladesh, according to that article.)
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought