Author Topic: "Fahrenheit 451" and the SJWs  (Read 8193 times)

Ben

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Re: "Fahrenheit 451" and the SJWs
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2016, 11:35:13 PM »
Interestingly, as more conservatives are banned from Twitter, Twitchy has linked to the Twitter "report abuse" form. It includes, "in disagreement with my opinion".

https://support.twitter.com/forms/abusiveuser
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freakazoid

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Re: "Fahrenheit 451" and the SJWs
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2016, 09:25:36 PM »
I watched the movie, really need to read the book.
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charby

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Re: "Fahrenheit 451" and the SJWs
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2016, 08:57:39 AM »
I watched the movie, really need to read the book.
The movie stinks compared to the book.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: "Fahrenheit 451" and the SJWs
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2016, 12:55:54 PM »
Public Schools and Libraries is what I am referring too. Websites can reject material but not people, i.e. Facebook can prohibit gun sales, but can't ban Baptists. A bakery can prohibit carrying a firearm on premises but can't ban gay people, yes it is a private business but the are open to the public.

I don't understand how that relates to censorship. Are you saying that it's OK for libraries and schools to reject material? Would you consider that censorship?


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Parents have a choice to send their kids to public schools or private or homeschool.


You could justify anything that way. "Don't like your kids being converted to snake-handling Presbyterianism in the public schools? You have a choice of private or home-school."


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If parents are really worried about protecting their kids from "immoral" things, they would never let them ride the school bus or play unsupervised with their peers.


Not a good argument to make. They might get insulted or slapped by the kids on the bus, or have their lunch money stolen, but that doesn't mean you want those things to be school policy.
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K Frame

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Re: "Fahrenheit 451" and the SJWs
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2016, 01:32:35 PM »
Books from public schools; teaching sex ed, masterbation as alternative to sex, use of birthcontrol; talking about gay marriage; probably more but this what I can think of off the top of my head.

BUT... BUTBUTBUTBUTBUT...

THAT'S NOT CENSORSHIP! THAT'S PROTECTING THE CHILLRUNS! WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILLRUNS???
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Perd Hapley

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Re: "Fahrenheit 451" and the SJWs
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2016, 01:34:33 PM »
Ridicule often trumps reason, so well-played.

The fact that government doesn't give you whatever you want does not equal censorship.
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K Frame

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Re: "Fahrenheit 451" and the SJWs
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2016, 01:35:04 PM »
No, what he's saying is that the right wing parents groups have a rather long history of objecting to books in schools and local libraries, which is no different than the left's actions.
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K Frame

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Re: "Fahrenheit 451" and the SJWs
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2016, 01:36:27 PM »
Ridicule often trumps reason, so well-played.

That's actually how some of the right-leaning banning groups have couched their arguments against some of the materials that Charby mentioned. It's "inappropriate" to expose them to such tawdry subjects; it will warp their minds and turn them in to cereal killers (TAKE THAT, Frosted Flakes!)
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Perd Hapley

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Re: "Fahrenheit 451" and the SJWs
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2016, 01:42:25 PM »
You're saying that if government doesn't give you whatever you want, then it's censorship. That's the exact same argument leftists use when they claim that insurance companies or employers are "blocking access" to some forms of health care. "They won't give me whatever I want. Therefore, they are blocking my access."

Real censorship means that someone's actually repressing a certain point of view.
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Scout26

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Re: "Fahrenheit 451" and the SJWs
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2016, 04:38:34 PM »
If I, as the parent of my children, refuse to allow my children to view material I find offensive or inappropriate, that is my prerogative and right as a parent. 
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: "Fahrenheit 451" and the SJWs
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2016, 05:24:21 PM »
That's actually how some of the right-leaning banning groups have couched their arguments against some of the materials that Charby mentioned. It's "inappropriate" to expose them to such tawdry subjects; it will warp their minds and turn them in to cereal killers (TAKE THAT, Frosted Flakes!)


A group like that went after my middle school library over Goosebumps. I *expletive deleted*it you not, Goosebumps (the RL Stein series of books)

It is your right as a parent to limit what your kid is exposed to (if you can) However, you don't get to dictact to other parents. As far as public libraries go, the way I see it, either we can have all books or no books. You pick it. But this picking and choosing based on what's "appropriate" isn't going to work.
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Scout26

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Re: "Fahrenheit 451" and the SJWs
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2016, 05:40:47 PM »
A group like that went after my middle school library over Goosebumps. I *expletive deleted*it you not, Goosebumps (the RL Stein series of books)

It is your right as a parent to limit what your kid is exposed to (if you can) However, you don't get to dictact to other parents. As far as public libraries go, the way I see it, either we can have all books or no books. You pick it. But this picking and choosing based on what's "appropriate" isn't going to work.

Two different animals.  Public library can and should have all books.   A school library, is under the purview of the elected school board and as such is answerable to the parents of said children.  The parents have a right to determine the content of such library.  And yes, refusing to allow the school library to carry Goosebumps is stupid.  However, the parents still get to determine whether or not the books should be in the school.
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

BlueStarLizzard

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Re: "Fahrenheit 451" and the SJWs
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2016, 05:53:43 PM »
Two different animals.  Public library can and should have all books.   A school library, is under the purview of the elected school board and as such is answerable to the parents of said children.  The parents have a right to determine the content of such library.  And yes, refusing to allow the school library to carry Goosebumps is stupid.  However, the parents still get to determine whether or not the books should be in the school.

The thing is which parents are getting the choice? The group who went after Goosebumps failed most miserably and spent the rest of the year bitching and moaning about how horrible it was that their precious snowflakes where being exposed to the works of the devil. They kept trying to take it to the next level and get some sort of special consideration due to religion.
What's more, I'm pretty sure the lot of them had never read a Goosebumps book at all. In fact, the majority of my peers parents were not particularly well read.
How about instead of having parents choose, let's just have the library stocked with whatever the librarian can get their hands on that is within the designated reading levels?

The thing I don't understand about all this concern about children being exposed to stuff you don't like is... Well, if you're a good parent, your kid will stick with your ideals and morals, right?
I mean, for pete sake, I went to a school in a liberal county during the height of the Clinton years and I promise you, I never once came home and told my Dad "you are wrong, guns are evil and they all need to go!!"
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Perd Hapley

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Re: "Fahrenheit 451" and the SJWs
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2016, 07:32:26 PM »
Two different animals.  Public library can and should have all books.

As far as public libraries go, the way I see it, either we can have all books or no books. You pick it. But this picking and choosing based on what's "appropriate" isn't going to work.

No, it works, and it makes sense. So long as the government is going to be involved in educating children, or at least loaning them reading material, parents will have to have a say in it. The parents who tried to ban GersBerms had to convince others to go along with them, and they failed. Anyone who tries to ban the Bible would have to do the same.


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dogmush

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Re: "Fahrenheit 451" and the SJWs
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2016, 07:53:09 PM »
Two different animals.  Public library can and should have all books.   A school library, is under the purview of the elected school board and as such is answerable to the parents of said children.  The parents have a right to determine the content of such library.  And yes, refusing to allow the school library to carry Goosebumps is stupid.  However, the parents still get to determine whether or not the books should be in the school.

Why do only the parents get a say?

I am constantly told (albeit mostly by leftists, but not exclusively) that it is in my, and Society's best interest to have well educated kids coming out of HS ready to be a contributing member of society.  I am certainly made to pay for a portion of those school libraries.  If it's my interest to see the kids be well educated, and I am [partially] paying for it why do I not get at least equal say as every other taxpayer?

Sure, it's your right to raise your kids as you see fit, with the morals, mores, religions, and what not that you think are important.  Until you force me to finance it.  Then I get a say.  And I say they get to read Hienlein. (all of it.  even the later stuff like The Cat Who Walks Through Walls.  Good luck with THAT conversation.)

Fistful, all my personal experience in right wing censorship is 25 or so years out of date, and I was young so details are sketchy, but I have seen right wing groups push through laws that made information flat illegal in a small town. (Porn mostly) Since the First amendment and Larry Flint exist, it was mostly done with zoning and creative enforcement of decency laws.  But using the power of government to completely ban ideas or expression from an entire community fits, I think, the definition of censorship.  Clearly, with the advent of the internet that is much more difficult to do.

Quote from: Charby
The movie stinks compared to the book.

As close to a universal truism as exists.

charby

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Re: "Fahrenheit 451" and the SJWs
« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2016, 10:54:45 PM »
I don't understand how that relates to censorship. Are you saying that it's OK for libraries and schools to reject material? Would you consider that censorship?
If something was banned because it offended a small minority of religious and was counter to the social norms, yes. The last I remember was 6-7 years ago a subset of a E-free church trying to get Harry Potter books removed from the public school library.
 
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You could justify anything that way. "Don't like your kids being converted to snake-handling Presbyterianism in the public schools? You have a choice of private or home-school."
Beauty of living in the USA, don't have to worry about a church taking over a public school.



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Not a good argument to make. They might get insulted or slapped by the kids on the bus, or have their lunch money stolen, but that doesn't mean you want those things to be school policy.
I learned more about sex, drugs and rock-n-roll on the school bus, then I ever did in sex ed at the Catholic School I attended. Passing around Hustler magazines was a daily occurrence by 4th grade on the bus.
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: "Fahrenheit 451" and the SJWs
« Reply #41 on: February 26, 2016, 11:24:58 PM »

I learned more about sex, drugs and rock-n-roll on the school bus, then I ever did in sex ed at the Catholic School I attended. Passing around Hustler magazines was a daily occurrence by 4th grade on the bus.

And this would be the biggest reason why certain subjects should to be taught early and factually. It's not the adults you have to worry about. It's the other kids.
Growing up, there were a number of lightbulb moments when I realized that what I had "learned" from my peers was WAY off... and considering some of the ignorant crap that I overheard up into collage, well, I see the statistics on teenage pregnancy and STDs and I'm surprised it's not more.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: "Fahrenheit 451" and the SJWs
« Reply #42 on: February 26, 2016, 11:34:00 PM »
If something was banned because it offended a small minority of religious and was counter to the social norms, yes. The last I remember was 6-7 years ago a subset of a E-free church trying to get Harry Potter books removed from the public school library.

Which can't be censorship, as they aren't keeping anyone from buying or reading or selling the material. They are only trying to keep their tax money from being used to disseminate it, in the same way that atheists have tried similar things from their own perspective.

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I learned more about sex, drugs and rock-n-roll on the school bus, then I ever did in sex ed at the Catholic School I attended. Passing around Hustler magazines was a daily occurrence by 4th grade on the bus.

Are you just sharing, or are you trying to recycle the same argument I already gutted, stuffed, and mounted above my fireplace?  :P


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  Beauty of living in the USA, don't have to worry about a church taking over a public school.

With the state they're in these days, they should be so lucky. But you said the right was doing all sorts of censorshippy stuff.  ???


Fistful, all my personal experience in right wing censorship is 25 or so years out of date, and I was young so details are sketchy, but I have seen right wing groups push through laws that made information flat illegal in a small town. (Porn mostly) Since the First amendment and Larry Flint exist, it was mostly done with zoning and creative enforcement of decency laws.  But using the power of government to completely ban ideas or expression from an entire community fits, I think, the definition of censorship.  Clearly, with the advent of the internet that is much more difficult to do.

Yeah, like I said, I haven't heard about that kind of thing lately. I know a guy who used to do that sort of thing back in Illinois, but that was decades ago, and he's not even trying to do that stuff anymore. I think you're probably correct that the internet makes it less of an issue these days.
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De Selby

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Re: "Fahrenheit 451" and the SJWs
« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2016, 07:33:42 AM »
All kids really need is the bible.  It will teach them about the importance of low taxes, balanced budgets, and refraining from destroying the poor through handouts.

If more kids were raised on the bible we just might have achieved paradise by now.  Jesus couldn't have been clearer in explaining how important it is to be wealthy, and our kids learning about that would no doubt set us on the right track

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charby

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Re: "Fahrenheit 451" and the SJWs
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2016, 08:18:23 AM »
Are you just sharing, or are you trying to recycle the same argument I already gutted, stuffed, and mounted above my fireplace?  :P

You talked about kids getting slapped around and lunch money taken; I talked about you learn the facts of life on a school bus. So trying to ban from schools what people fell that is inappropriate for kids their precious snowflake to learn about, well they are going to learn it about elsewhere and as Liz mentioned, and usually very incorrect knowledge, that could cause other problems.
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charby

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Re: "Fahrenheit 451" and the SJWs
« Reply #45 on: February 27, 2016, 08:24:07 AM »
Which can't be censorship, as they aren't keeping anyone from buying or reading or selling the material. They are only trying to keep their tax money from being used to disseminate it, in the same way that atheists have tried similar things from their own perspective.

About taxes? No it is about control, just like the antigun movement is. If I don't like it, no one should be able to like it. If I don't think my children should see it in school, then no one's children should be able to see it.

"Censorship: the practice of officially examining books, movies, etc., and suppressing unacceptable parts."
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zxcvbob

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Re: "Fahrenheit 451" and the SJWs
« Reply #46 on: February 27, 2016, 09:37:57 AM »
"Censorship: the practice of officially examining books, movies, etc., and suppressing unacceptable parts."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLlTlYfqQV4
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Re: "Fahrenheit 451" and the SJWs
« Reply #47 on: February 27, 2016, 10:03:17 AM »
About taxes? No it is about control, just like the antigun movement is. If I don't like it, no one should be able to like it. If I don't think my children should see it in school, then no one's children should be able to see it.

"Censorship: the practice of officially examining books, movies, etc., and suppressing unacceptable parts."
Kind of like removing the Bible and references to the role of Christianity and Christian thought in the formation of our country.

For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

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Re: "Fahrenheit 451" and the SJWs
« Reply #48 on: February 27, 2016, 10:07:40 AM »
I learned more about sex, drugs and rock-n-roll on the school bus, then I ever did in sex ed at the Catholic School I attended. Passing around Hustler magazines was a daily occurrence by 4th grade on the bus.

The only thing ya learn from porn is that tab "A" goes in... ANYWHERE and that YOU are woefully underdeveloped!
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charby

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Re: "Fahrenheit 451" and the SJWs
« Reply #49 on: February 27, 2016, 10:37:10 AM »
Kind of like removing the Bible and references to the role of Christianity and Christian thought in the formation of our country.



http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/02/living/america-christian-nation/

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