Author Topic: Trump and Charlottesville  (Read 18770 times)

Hawkmoon

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Trump and Charlottesville
« on: August 13, 2017, 02:24:43 PM »
http://www.newser.com/story/247135/trump-aide-calls-virginia-violence-terrorism.html

I only heard a snippet of Trump's message yesterday, and I have to say that the tone of voice was more somber and slower than I think I have ever heard him. Needless to say, even though he addressed the situation almost instantly, the usual suspects are complaining that he didn't specifically call out white supremacists and "racists."

Where were those same usual suspects when it was Black Lives Matter terrorists who were rioting and burning down entire neighborhoods? Of course, they would have objected if anyone had called black rioters "terrorists" or "racists," because ... well ... because reasons. But when whites do the same thing, apparently it's necessary to object to the color of the particular aholes du jour rather than condemn the actions themselves, irrespective of who is doing the acting out.

Trump will never get a fair break from the mass media.
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MillCreek

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2017, 03:05:07 PM »
This is a photo from the march. 


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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
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Triphammer

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2017, 03:22:02 PM »
I've been trying to find some sort of timeline for this. All I can find  is that "several hundred "White Nationalist's", these guys, showed up to show displeasure with a plan to remove an historic statue. "Peaceful" counter protesters showed up and fights occurred. Not a word on who started what, who was attacked first. Only that the first group is racist.
 I've got think if the original protest went on for Friday night, un-accosted, all of the "Nationalists" would have gone back to work, never to be heard from again.

MillCreek

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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

zxcvbob

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2017, 04:15:10 PM »
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/08/12/charlottesville-crash-protesters-video-orig-vstop-dlewis.cnn/video/playlists/charlottesville-white-nationalist-rally/

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/13/charlottesville-suspects-mom-told-him-to-protest-peacefully.html

You must have missed the timeline part in which the peaceful white nationalist deliberately drove into a crowd, killing one and killing 19.

I don't know anything about who drove into the crowd (other than he's from Ohio, and now his name)

Of course the media portrays hims as a white nationalist.  And maybe he is, but maybe not.
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Triphammer

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2017, 04:29:56 PM »
No, didn't miss anything. You know as well as I that this didn't start with someone driveing through a crowd. There's just a strange lack of information as to who started the physical assaults.
 We've spoken of this here on occasion discussing the BLM marches. Someone reacting in either fear or ander that gets someone killed.
The antifas are known to bring violence to shut down free speech, not that I generally agree with this particular group, political speech is protected.
 Just trying to understand.

MillCreek

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2017, 04:34:43 PM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/13/us/james-alex-fields-charlottesville-driver-.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=b-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

Of note, Mr. Fields washed out of the Army in less than four months, and at a minimum, he likes to stand around with the white supremacist groups and hold their shields, as you can see by the photos.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2017, 04:40:21 PM »
So, here it is:

There is a statue of Lee in a place called Lee Park. A 13 year old girl decided she was scared of the statue because of slavery blah blah blah and city council went on the liberal warpath to have it removed.
City council got blocked by Virginia state laws. City council doesn't care, keeps trying to remove the statue. Much yelling and arguing from both sides. City Council continues doing illegal things like renaming the park and basically being asses.

In regards to the actual park and statue, I have officially reached the point where enough is enough. I say bulldoze the whole thing and turn it into a *expletive deleted*ing parking lot because what downtown needs is more parking and less aholes.

A couple weeks ago the KKK came to town and had a rally. They had a permit and police escort. A bunch of idiots showed up to protest without permits. Got told to leave. A bunch of other idiots (many from out of town and members of Antifa groups) refused to leave, started crap and mostly got arrested.

IMHO, if the KKK had come, been ignored and gone, the events of this weekend would not have happened. C-ville proved itself willing to feed into this kind of bullshit and, thus, the bullshit happened.

So comes along Kessler and his idiots. They also get a permit to protest. They are legit racist, neo nazi scumbags. City Council has it's head up it's ass. Tries to refuse giving the permit. ACLU backs Kessler and forces the city to give the permit. City makes up some crap about making them move the protest to a different park based on the size of the event. Kessler and his ilk are ticked off, fight it. Then City revokes permit at the last minute. Kesslers goons go to Walmart, get tiki torches and have the cops called on them by "concerned citizens" since many of the goons are open carrying. Obviously, the cops explain to the "concerned citizens" that open carry is legal and goons laugh and go on their merry way. The goons go to the Lawn with tiki torches lit and march. UVA students come out in force to "protect" a statue of Jefferson. IDK if the goons are still armed, because if they were that would have been illegal since they were on UVA campus. Minor brawling ensues. Drama. Whatever.
Day of big protest. Goons from both sides show up with helmets, shields and baseball bats. Police are supposed to be escorting and corralling various goons. Police fail miserably. In fact, at one point they force nazi goons to walk through a bunch of antifa goons. Fighting breaks out. Who didn't see that coming.  :facepalm:
Finally, bunch of antifa goons are packed into a side street just off the Downtown mall. Dodge charger comes through, rams into the two stopped cars in front of him, then hits it into reverse and wails back the way it came from. One woman is dead, 19 injured.
 ***stop*** noted else where people making comments about people being in the street and that's all bad, obviously people in the street up to no good. While I agree that this particular bunch was up to no good, them being packed into the street is not indicative of bad behavior in that area. The Downtown mall is a pedestrian mall and the side streets are usually fair game as well. When it gets crowded down there, that's pretty much par for the course. You see people walking around like that every friday. *back to the events**

Dodge Charger has Ohio plates. Driver has turned out to be a "alt right" scumbag who has no ties to C-ville that I've seen.

All in all, city council is wailing for peace publicly and probably patting themselves on the backs in private. They got C-ville on the map and I doubt they could be prouder of themselves.
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2017, 04:42:35 PM »
No, didn't miss anything. You know as well as I that this didn't start with someone driveing through a crowd. There's just a strange lack of information as to who started the physical assaults.
 We've spoken of this here on occasion discussing the BLM marches. Someone reacting in either fear or ander that gets someone killed.
The antifas are known to bring violence to shut down free speech, not that I generally agree with this particular group, political speech is protected.
 Just trying to understand.

Both sides wanted it. Both sides were prepared for it. In this case, I don't think it matters who threw the first punch. In fact, I doubt they know who threw the first punch. They didn't show up for peaceful protest. They showed up for a brawl.
"Okay, um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm angry, and I'm armed, so if you two have something that you need to work out --" -Malcolm Reynolds

MillCreek

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2017, 05:41:43 PM »
BSL, thanks a lot for the 'on the ground' explanation.  Very interesting.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

lupinus

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2017, 05:57:21 PM »
So worthless scumbags wanted to protest, city council wet themselves and pulls bs at last minute. Scumbags protest anyway.

Groups of opposing scumbags show up ready for a fight, and do so, fighting what seems like more or less each other.

Why is everyone bemoaning this? I just wanna know why it wasn't out on ppv and advertised ahead of time.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Triphammer

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2017, 06:04:38 PM »
BST, thanks. Lots of insight we don't see on the news.
 I am not in any way condoning this driver.  What is missing from news reports is the fact the Antifas wanted to shut down "badspeak", again. It doesn't matter weather it's these guys or Milo. This time, those expressing a differing viewpoint were not going the stand by and be maced or hit with bike locks.
 I don't think anyone will go to hear a speaker or attend an event that the left has determined needs stopping will do so without being prepared for violence. It is too bad the example in this case is neo-nazis, it was going to happen eventually.

BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2017, 06:27:51 PM »
So worthless scumbags wanted to protest, city council wet themselves and pulls bs at last minute. Scumbags protest anyway.

Groups of opposing scumbags show up ready for a fight, and do so, fighting what seems like more or less each other.

Why is everyone bemoaning this? I just wanna know why it wasn't out on ppv and advertised ahead of time.

City Council did not wet themselves. City Council pulled BS to fan the flames. City Council wanted to make sure that everyone was mad as hell and boiling for a fight.

And if you think I'm kidding, go look up our vice mayor, Wes Bellemy. Scumbag has been itching for a race riot in C-ville for a long time now.
"Okay, um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm angry, and I'm armed, so if you two have something that you need to work out --" -Malcolm Reynolds

lupinus

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Re: Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2017, 06:38:45 PM »
City Council did not wet themselves. City Council pulled BS to fan the flames. City Council wanted to make sure that everyone was mad as hell and boiling for a fight.

And if you think I'm kidding, go look up our vice mayor, Wes Bellemy. Scumbag has been itching for a race riot in C-ville for a long time now.
Ah. Well then I say we throw them in the middle before ringing the opening bell next time.

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That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2017, 07:12:02 PM »
Relax, people. We have been assured that everything went "very well."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/13/us/charlottesville-protests-white-nationalists.html

Quote
Brittany Caine-Conley, a minister in training at Sojourners United Church of Christ, who had come with other faith leaders to protest against the white nationalists, said she was horrified to see officers in the park watching the violence take place outside in the street.

“There was no police presence,’’ she said. “We were watching people punch each other; people were bleeding all the while police were inside of barricades at the park watching. It was essentially just brawling on the street and community members trying to protect each other.”
California Today

Asked about the brawling and why police did not do more to control it, Brian Moran, Virginia’s secretary of public safety, said in an interview on Sunday that “it was a volatile situation and it’s unfortunate people resorted to violence.’’ But, he said, “From our plan, to ensure the safety of our citizens and property, it went extremely well.’’

I hope someone will explain to Heather D. Heyer's family exactly how well it went.
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Perd Hapley

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French G.

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2017, 08:44:45 PM »
I feel a festive family dinner coming. I am guessing that my C'ville bunny hugging mom is not going to see people who need to play catch with a machine gun on both sides of this one. I am am more than willing to associate with people of other political stripes but the intellectual dishonesty has me hostile.
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2017, 10:07:11 PM »
I feel a festive family dinner coming. I am guessing that my C'ville bunny hugging mom is not going to see people who need to play catch with a machine gun on both sides of this one. I am am more than willing to associate with people of other political stripes but the intellectual dishonesty has me hostile.

Your mom must be hanging out with my mom. You know, all those innocent peaceful protesters where just sweet little angels doing nothing wrong when the big bad alt-right/nazi's came to town.

My mother is convinced that the majority of the "counter protesters" was the kumbahya singing hippie clergy holding hands and no sins where committed by any of them.  ;/
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2017, 10:45:32 PM »
Your mom must be hanging out with my mom. You know, all those innocent peaceful protesters where just sweet little angels doing nothing wrong when the big bad alt-right/nazi's came to town.

My mother is convinced that the majority of the "counter protesters" was the kumbahya singing hippie clergy holding hands and no sins where committed by any of them.  ;/


"Mostly peaceful protestors"?
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just Warren

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2017, 11:07:30 PM »
The alt-right is so alt they're on the left, along with the Nazis and KKK.

And if the left is wiling to do this to each other imagine what they'll do to those on the actual right.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2017, 11:12:38 PM »
http://www.dailywire.com/news/19657/late-night-ann-coulter-twitter-tirade-mocks-msm-robert-kraychik

I do believe I'm falling in love with Ann Coulter.

Too bad she's so much younger, richer, better looking, and smarter than I am ...
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K Frame

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2017, 07:59:52 AM »
Of course the plan went off very well.

The plan was to allow violence to take place without police intervention and do everything possible to pin the violence on the right (correctly or incorrectly, doesn't matter) and use it as a launching platform against Republicans.

Our esteemed Communist in Chief in Virginia, Terry McAuliffe, orchestrated it quite well. *expletive deleted*ing socialists are good at that crap.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2017, 08:06:53 AM »
I would be unsurprised were it to turn out to have been a false flag operation but I suspect the perp would probably commit "suicide" before such were allowed to be told.
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Ben

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2017, 10:29:24 AM »
I can't disagree with anything Coulter said in that essay.

With all the different opinions from the reporters that are supposed to be posting unbiased news, I'm not sure if we'll ever learn what actually started the violence or who threw the first punch.

IMO, historically, 95% of the time it's the left throwing the first punch (or urine bomb) or breaking the first windows as the conservatives attempt to have a peaceful rally. In this case, given some of the white supremacist groups that showed up, I would have no doubt that some of them did everything they could to get the left to throw the first punch, in fact probably came with a plan to goad them into first contact.

In Ben's "that's the way you should do it" world, the city should have given the knuckleheads their permit, and everyone else should have let them protest and ignored them. Without an audience, they would have basically been irrelevant.

For the record, and hopefully not being lumped in with white supremacists, I am very much against name changes, statue removals, and revisionist history. The Chinese proverb comes to mind, and you don't see Jews demanding that all the relics of Hitler's Germany be destroyed. We should always be careful to record history, not politically drive it. There's already too much "the victor writes the history" stuff.

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K Frame

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2017, 10:39:23 AM »
The Mayor of Charlottesville is apparently now assigning 100% blame for the violence to Trump.
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