Trump and Charlottesville

[DittoHead]

I wish the tea party were more visibly active - they got a lot of flack in the media but I would still much prefer they were out there as the public face of the "extreme right wing" instead of these guys. 

What does an angry white boy want? The fact that they get together to play dress-up — to engage in a large and sometimes murderous game of cowboys and Indians — may give us our answer. They want to be someone other than who they are. That’s the great irony of identity politics: They seek identity in the tribe because they are failed individuals. They are a chain composed exclusively of weak links. What they are engaged in isn’t politics, but theater: play-acting in the hopes of achieving catharsis.

[RoadKingLarry]

The only reason the scumbag neo-nazis and KKK dooshbags are being portrayed as the face of the conservative/right is because that is the media narrative.

[DittoHead]

The only reason the scumbag neo-nazis and KKK dooshbags are being portrayed as the face of the conservative/right is because that is the media narrative.

I'm not saying they should be, but the reality is that they are (and Trump is not helping much in that regard). If you asked people ~5 years ago they would probably identify the Tea Party and Occupy Wallstreet as the fringes of the parties. Today it's the neo nazis & the antifa.

[MechAg94]

I wish the tea party were more visibly active - they got a lot of flack in the media but I would still much prefer they were out there as the public face of the "extreme right wing" instead of these guys. 

First:  Calling them "right wing" is a media narrative thing.  They are not right wing.  They are just leftists who hate different people.  In other words, "useful idiots".  The organizer of the white supremacist march is a former Obama supporter and leftist protester.  

Second:  Even if the Tea Party was active, they would either be ignored or labeled and racist nazis and treated as if they were in the same group that did the protest.  The media is riding this narrative as far as they can and they aren't going to let anything cause them to deviate.  Blame the media for this, not the Tea Party.  The media is an active political entity.  They have stopped simply reporting news in case you hadn't noticed.

Third:  Right now there is very little on TV news that I consider useful information.  Don't let all the BS on the 24 hour news mess with your thinking.  Just about everyone on those channels are either leftists or never-Trumper types who don't like him and most of the discussion is meaningless drivel.    

[Perd Hapley]

I'm not sure to what extent the Tea Party is/was seen as a fringe group, and I'm not sure Occupy is much diffrent from Antifa. The main difference I see is that Antifa violence is done in public, rather than being committed inside a tent, against the girls within their own movement.

Sad as it is to say, given the circumstances, I'm not sure the Tea Party protests were much better for the right's image than the horrors that went on in Charlottesville. Demanding lower tax rates is portrayed as racism, and Republican health care reform is portrayed as attempted genocide. The right, and "alt-right," were already blamed for violence - even when it's violence against Republicans.

Quote from: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/450501/white-nationalists-alt-right-vague-grievances-what-do-they-want
What does an angry white boy want? The fact that they get together to play dress-up — to engage in a large and sometimes murderous game of cowboys and Indians — may give us our answer. They want to be someone other than who they are. That’s the great irony of identity politics: They seek identity in the tribe because they are failed individuals. They are a chain composed exclusively of weak links. What they are engaged in isn’t politics, but theater: play-acting in the hopes of achieving catharsis.

As this guy points out, that would be an apt description of much of the protest/riot class, on "all sides." Including the white Black Lives Matter tools I've been seeing on street corners here in the past couple of months.

[MechAg94]

I'm not saying they should be, but the reality is that they are (and Trump is not helping much in that regard). If you asked people ~5 years ago they would probably identify the Tea Party and Occupy Wallstreet as the fringes of the parties. Today it's the neo nazis & the antifa.

If the media did a poll right now on that subject, it would show exactly what they want you to see.  Be careful how much you believe what you are seeing on the news.  IMO, always be a little suspicious.

[DittoHead]

First:  Calling them "right wing" is a media narrative thing.  They are not right wing.  They are just leftists who hate different people.  In other words, "useful idiots".  The organizer of the white supremacist march is a former Obama supporter and leftist protester.  

They may not belong on the right, but they LOVE Trump and he is the face of the right. Maybe he shouldn't be and I certainly wish he wasn't but wishing doesn't change reality. The march was called "Unite the Right" and I doubt it was filled with Obama (or Hillary) supporters, these people seem to think they belong on the right. I also doubt it was all Jewish actors or paid stooges for that matter.

Third:  Right now there is very little on TV news that I consider useful information.  Don't let all the BS on the 24 hour news mess with your thinking.  Just about everyone on those channels are either leftists or never-Trumper types who don't like him and most of the discussion is meaningless drivel.    

I don't watch the TV news so don't worry, they haven't gotten into my brain.

Sad as it is to say, given the circumstances, I'm not sure the Tea Party protests were much better for the right's image than the horrors that went on in Charlottesville. Demanding lower tax rates is portrayed as racism, and Republican health care reform is portrayed as attempted genocide.

I think there's a huge difference between being (incorrectly or not) associated with a group who is portrayed as racist but has goals I agree with and being associated with a group that is ACTUALLY racist scum. Give me the tea party over neo-nazis any day.

[MechAg94]

They may not belong on the right, but they LOVE Trump and he is the face of the right. Maybe he shouldn't be and I certainly wish he wasn't but wishing doesn't change reality. The march was called "Unite the Right" and I doubt it was filled with Obama (or Hillary) supporters, these people seem to think they belong on the right. I also doubt it was all Jewish actors or paid stooges for that matter.

The one who organized it is a leftist.  Given the motivations of the left these days, I would expect them to try to portray themselves as Trump supporters.  If some actual Trump supporters bought into what they were selling, they qualify for the "useful idiots" label.  The Democrat Party has always been the party of racism. 

[MechAg94]

I guess I have gotten to dislike the tendency to wonder what we could do to get the media reporting on our side.  IMO, that is a trap and will get you nowhere.  Republican establishment types have been falling into that trap for decades.

[Boomhauer]

This kind of *expletive deleted*it is going to get Innocents killed.  https://www.google.com/amp/amp.dailycaller.com/2017/08/15/left-wing-activists-target-professor-who-wasnt-in-charlottesville/



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[Perd Hapley]

I think there's a huge difference between being (incorrectly or not) associated with a group who is portrayed as racist but has goals I agree with and being associated with a group that is ACTUALLY racist scum. Give me the tea party over neo-nazis any day.

Obviously, I'm not disagreeing with you that it would be better to have Tea Party protests, rather than a march/riot/homicide by fake conservatives. I'm just not so sure if this tragic event is hurting the right's image to such a great degree, compared to the usual character assassination that goes on.

[BlueStarLizzard]

Please don't talk about the local police being incompetent.

The local police who were on the ground that day are pissed. They were ORDERED to stand down and not get involved.

State and Albermarle county cops who were on hand to help where expressly told to stand back.

and yes, I have this straight from the horse's mouth, as it were.

The city will not be getting any more aid from the county cops in these kinds of events. Unlike the City, the guy in charge of our police force isn't a puppet of stupid politicians (and I have a feeling even the puppet may have seen the light)

[Perd Hapley]

The reactions to the Charlottesville disaster are really aggravating me. The news media and the pop culture were happy to wink at political violence earlier in the year, when it was mainly left-wingers doing it. Now, when it's still mainly left-wingers doing it, they've decided it's something they want to weep over. Save it, Van Jones. Where were your tears when a racist movement was burning down buildings, and assaulting and killing police officers?

Oh, and it's some kind of crime to suggest that anyone was acting up on the Left, down in C-ville. Because none of them managed to kill anyone on that particular day, we shouldn't blame them for using violence. Not surprising, really, since they already told us it was OK to punch a "Nazi," just for running his mouth.

And no, I'm not going to make any of the usual noises, about whether I deplore racism or political violence. If I favored either of those things, I'd be on the political left, wouldn't I? Go ask Antifa and Black Lives Matter to renounce those things.

[BlueStarLizzard]

The reactions to the Charlottesville disaster are really aggravating me. The news media and the pop culture were happy to wink at political violence earlier in the year, when it was mainly left-wingers doing it. Now, when it's still mainly left-wingers doing it, they've decided it's something they want to weep over. Save it, Van Jones. Where were your tears when a racist movement was burning down buildings, and assaulting and killing police officers?

Oh, and it's some kind of crime to suggest that anyone was acting up on the Left, down in C-ville. Because none of them managed to kill anyone on that particular day, we shouldn't blame them for using violence. Not surprising, really, since they already told us it was OK to punch a "Nazi," just for running his mouth.

And no, I'm not going to make any of the usual noises, about whether I deplore racism or political violence. If I favored either of those things, I'd be on the political left, wouldn't I? Go ask Antifa and Black Lives Matter to renounce those things.

It pretty much is a crime. The fascists have won in C-ville and, unsurprisingly, it's not the ones being talked about. This actually came up multiple times at work today. My one boss will no longer post about the subject on FB because we could potentially lose too much business. My other boss has openly acknowledged that she needs to keep her mouth shut. One customer who is on the same page as us on the subject stated outright that he knows they don't dare say anything openly or they'll end up out of business and he was also upset that he has to keep his own mouth shut, or he could lose his job.
One word of even questioning the actions of any counter protesters and you're instantly labeled "racist nazi".

[Angel Eyes]

The Atlantic has made up a new category:  "sub-military firearms" in their latest screed against open carry:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/open-carry-laws-mean-charlottesville-could-have-been-graver/537087/

Weren't a number of people (not police) carrying at Charlottesville?  Anybody notice that not a single shot was fired?

Is the Dodge Challenger a sub-military vehicle?

[Ben]

The reactions to the Charlottesville disaster are really aggravating me. The news media and the pop culture were happy to wink at political violence earlier in the year, when it was mainly left-wingers doing it. Now, when it's still mainly left-wingers doing it, they've decided it's something they want to weep over. Save it, Van Jones. Where were your tears when a racist movement was burning down buildings, and assaulting and killing police officers?

Oh, and it's some kind of crime to suggest that anyone was acting up on the Left, down in C-ville. Because none of them managed to kill anyone on that particular day, we shouldn't blame them for using violence. Not surprising, really, since they already told us it was OK to punch a "Nazi," just for running his mouth.

And no, I'm not going to make any of the usual noises, about whether I deplore racism or political violence. If I favored either of those things, I'd be on the political left, wouldn't I? Go ask Antifa and Black Lives Matter to renounce those things.

I have to say, watching the media fallout, I'm with you. Were there violent nazis present? Absolutely. There were also violent antifas there.

People from both sides started violence. Trump called it. Also as I mentioned previously, the MSM and the left have been completely off the rails regarding all the guns on hips on Saturday, talking about these "armed aggressors", yet not a single shot was fired. In the meantime, antifas showed up in force at that poor woman's funeral with shields and baseball bats.

Also I see today that the calls are starting for the removal of George Washington and Andrew Jackson statues. Trump called it. In the meantime, the Lincoln memorial was vandalized because all those old white guys are alike. Public education strikes again.

Also I see that the left is not letting a crisis go to waste by now pushing for "all these whities are alike" and stating that if you're pro-life, you're a nazi. In the meantime, one of the lefty MSM outlets was praising Iceland yesterday because they are "eliminating Down Syndrome" through abortion. Hello Eugenics. Patricia Heaton said it best - "Iceland isn't actually eliminating Down Syndrome. They're just killing everybody that has it. Big difference."

[Perd Hapley]

I'm old enough to remember when denouncing hatred and violence (as Donald Trump did in his first comments on Charlottesville) was seen as denouncing hatred and violence; not endorsing it. Maybe I should go ahead and announce my support for both hatred and violence, just so no one thinks I actually do support it.

[Scout26]

TO quote one of my favorite philosophers.  "It's my estimation that every man ever got a'statue made of him was one kind of sommbitch or another."

A pox on both houses.  Trump was right.  Both sides committed violence and are hate groups.

[Perd Hapley]

More proof of the dangerous, right-wingery racism in our country:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/15/politics/obamas-charlottesville-tweet/index.html

"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion..."

The above quotation from Nelson Mandela, which served as Barack Obama's response to the news from Charlottesville, is Twitter's most-liked tweet EVER. EVAH!

We note that, at least in this tweet, Mr. Obama refused to specifically denounce Kluckers, White Nationalists, Nazis, Antifa - or anyone, for that matter. We can only conclude that everyone who liked this tweet are white nationalist NRA members.

[freakazoid]

One side committed violence, the other side was simply very willing and ready to defend against it.

[TommyGunn]

One side committed violence, the other side was simply very willing and ready to defend against it.

Which is why they arrived armed with shields, helmets,  and two by fours.....

[zxcvbob]

My 'lustrious CEO was on Trump's business council.  She sent an email to all employees today telling us how they disbanded the council.  You can read it on Fortune.

I was so tempted to reply to her; something about good riddance, that all they wanted to do was increase the number of H-1B visas so they could put more US workers out on the streets.  Instead, I just reported it as spam and deleted it before it got me in trouble.  I may still get in a little trouble for the spam thing.

[Scout26]

Understand what the goal of Anti-fa/Leftists/Masked f*expletive deleted*tards are:

Pull down statues of Confederates because Slavery Bad.

Therefore, we must pull down Statues of the Founding Fathers....because Slavery Bad.

Since Founding Fathers were Bad, then the ideas encapsulated in the DoI and US Constitution are Bad because Slavery.

Once they get to the point of taking down/away that final Document, then they will have achieved Obama's stated goal of "Fundamentally transforming the United States of America" into Venezuelan/North Korean, etc. style Socialist Hellhole.

[Hawkmoon]

Understand what the goal of Anti-fa/Leftists/Masked *expletive deleted*tards are:

Pull down statues of Confederates because Slavery Bad.

Therefore, we must pull down Statues of the Founding Fathers....because Slavery Bad.

Since Founding Fathers were Bad, then the ideas encapsulated in the DoI and US Constitution are Bad because Slavery.

Once they get to the point of taking down/away that final Document, then they will have achieved Obama's stated goal of "Fundamentally transforming the United States of America" into Venezuelan/North Korean, etc. style Socialist Hellhole.

I think you're onto something. I'm not in favor of pulling down statues of Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee, et al all over the country, but I understand how some people might want that. But when it comes to removing statues of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, now they're obviously heading deep into revisionist history territory. Once the statues are gone, they'll demand that those old, white faces be removed from our coinage and from our paper currency. Then they'll be removed from the history books. And in another generation, nobody will know or remember how this country was founded. The only names that will be allowed will be people like George Washington Carver and Ponce de Leon.

[Ben]

I can't figure out if this is more like McCarthyism or more like the brown shirts "outing" Jews. From the little info in the article, this guy could be many of us here, who have no time for supremacists, but are simply against revisionist history. 

It's interesting that most of these doxxing-like incidents have so far gone after people in dockers and polos vs guys in militia gear or those wearing pointy hats.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/17/virginia-rally-participant-receives-death-threats-says-was-there-to-preserve-history.html