Author Topic: Trump and Charlottesville  (Read 18767 times)

MechAg94

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #75 on: August 17, 2017, 11:14:06 AM »
They say that those who do not learn from History will end up repeating it.  How does that work when today we have people wanting to wipe out all mention of slavery? 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Perd Hapley

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #76 on: August 17, 2017, 11:28:32 AM »
They claim history is written by the winners. But if the losing side can't manage to publish their own history, how are they able to erect statues to it?
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zxcvbob

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #77 on: August 17, 2017, 11:55:32 AM »
They say that those who do not learn from History will end up repeating it.  How does that work when today we have people wanting to wipe out all mention of slavery? 

Those in control *want* to bring back slavery.  Many of the rest are just useful idiots.
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K Frame

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #78 on: August 17, 2017, 12:35:08 PM »
One of my Facebook friends (horrifically liberal, it would appear) posted a meme about how 407,000 Americans died fighting Fascism, and Trump is spitting on them by allowing the Nazis to march across America...

I guess he didn't know about the ACLU's role in making it possible for the Nazis to march and display Nazi symbols.

He does now, and I bet he's not liking it one bit to think that it was the ACLU hocking loogies long before Trump ever entertained a run for the presidency.




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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #79 on: August 17, 2017, 12:36:36 PM »
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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DittoHead

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #80 on: August 17, 2017, 12:53:17 PM »
The one who organized it is a leftist.  Given the motivations of the left these days, I would expect them to try to portray themselves as Trump supporters. 
Since you advised always being a little suspicious... do you have any more info regarding the organizer? The only thing I could find was second hand rumor & message board 'suspicion' reported by the SPLC of all places.

and since I mentioned the Tea Party earlier, I happened to come across this tidbit today:
As to whether any hapless moderates strolled in there thinking this was just about the statue—well, I live in this area and used to be active in the local Tea Party group. I know people who are not white nationalists who oppose the removal of the statues based on high-minded ideas about preserving history. None of them were there, and if they had been, they would have bolted the moment they saw a bunch of guys with torches chanting “Blood and soil.”
As one would hope, they had the good sense to stay away from these "alt right" imbeciles despite sharing some common ground on the statues.
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MechAg94

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #81 on: August 17, 2017, 01:17:42 PM »
Since you advised always being a little suspicious... do you have any more info regarding the organizer? The only thing I could find was second hand rumor & message board 'suspicion' reported by the SPLC of all places.

and since I mentioned the Tea Party earlier, I happened to come across this tidbit today:As one would hope, they had the good sense to stay away from these "alt right" imbeciles despite sharing some common ground on the statues.
I thought the one link was actually trying to explain how the guy went from Obama supporter to his current view.

It has been only a few days.  Most of the stories that are against the primary narrative take time to circulate.  I have yet to see anything that disproves what we are talking about.  Most new information is confirming.

Bill Frady interviewed someone who was supposedly a journalist who talked about the police pulling back when the violence initially started.  Then he pointed out the two groups were herded together by police when they were trying to push them out of the area.  Never made any attempt to separate the groups.  I kind of wonder what this would look like if the one guy didn't drive a car into a crowd.  

I am not trying to claim ALL people with white nationalist views are leftists.  I figure you could find them in across the spectrum depending on how you defined it.  Given that we already know that leftists have funded and organized many of the protests/riots over the last 10 years in this country, starting with the assumption that this was staged is not a big leap.  
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zxcvbob

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #82 on: August 17, 2017, 02:09:27 PM »
I think you're onto something. I'm not in favor of pulling down statues of Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee, et al all over the country, but I understand how some people might want that. But when it comes to removing statues of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, now they're obviously heading deep into revisionist history territory. Once the statues are gone, they'll demand that those old, white faces be removed from our coinage and from our paper currency. Then they'll be removed from the history books. And in another generation, nobody will know or remember how this country was founded. The only names that will be allowed will be people like George Washington Carver and Ponce de Leon.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/aug/16/rahm-emanuel-urged-by-chicago-pastor-to-remove-geo/
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #83 on: August 17, 2017, 02:29:38 PM »
One of my Facebook friends (horrifically liberal, it would appear) posted a meme about how 407,000 Americans died fighting Fascism, and Trump is spitting on them by allowing the Nazis to march across America...

I guess he didn't know about the ACLU's role in making it possible for the Nazis to march and display Nazi symbols.

He does now, and I bet he's not liking it one bit to think that it was the ACLU hocking loogies long before Trump ever entertained a run for the presidency.

Your lefty friends need to start some kind of support group for the trauma you inflict on them. Then again, they probably already have a regular cuddle puddle group...


Oh, hey, did you ask your little friend if he was OK with the Nation of Islam going out and demonstrating?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Islam#Teachings_on_race
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 02:54:38 PM by fistful »
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makattak

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #84 on: August 17, 2017, 03:39:04 PM »
One thing on all of this I'm noticing?

Police are more than willing to follow orders to do nothing, even when innocents will be hurt (or killed.) So, it's great that they were all annoyed that they were told not to do their jobs. But they dutifully followed those orders.

(And, if the report from one of the alt-right morons is to be believed1, the police DID actively push the groups together to create this situation.)





1: Note that I'm not believing it. I'm also not disbelieving it because his credibility is about the same as major media's.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #85 on: August 17, 2017, 03:58:00 PM »
Given that anything Trump says will be used against him, I think he should now limit his public remarks to strings of the words "covfefe" and "bigly."
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #86 on: August 17, 2017, 05:32:57 PM »
Given that anything Trump says will be used against him, I think he should now limit his public remarks to strings of the words "covfefe" and "bigly."

One of our presidents from long ago said something about speaking softly and carrying a big stick. I wonder what would happen if the White House (and the President himself) were to suddenly go dark for ... oh, maybe a month, for starters. Not say anything for the public, just sit in the office, call congresscritters, veto legislation, and issue executive orders unraveling the swamp.

The media would go nuts (okay, more nuts).
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #87 on: August 17, 2017, 07:22:50 PM »
http://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/08/17/start-throwing-rocks-in-washington-post-professor-urges-direct-action-to-defeat-white-supremacy/

"Defeat white supremacy"? How do you defeat something that's practically dead?


http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/16/politics/what-is-alt-left/index.html?sr=twCNN081617what-is-alt-left0639AMVODtop

Quote
What's the 'alt-left'? Experts say it's a 'made-up term'

So, coining terminology is now just making up words. Republicans are so stupid. They can't possibly be re-purposing popular terminology for their own usage. It's just another covfefe, everybody.

That's the kind of dishonesty I'm sure we're all tired of. The "experts" know good and well that this isn't France. Words don't have to have government approval. They know it's just an agenda-driven non sequitur to claim that a newly-coined term is "made-up," while acknowledging that it's actually being used and understood.

Oh, and I stopped reading the article when I got here:

Quote
It's a "made-up term" used by people on the right to "suggest there is a similar movement on the left," Segal said.
But there's no equivalent with the anti-Semitic and bigoted groups that call themselves "alt-right", he said.

Oh, sure. If by that, you mean the alt-right isn't nearly so well-established, well-funded, and well-organized as the alt-left. And doesn't control a major political party like the alt-left does.


Oh, and if they want a made-up word, how about "homophobia"?
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 07:48:38 PM by fistful »
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TommyGunn

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #88 on: August 17, 2017, 07:34:00 PM »
http://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/08/17/start-throwing-rocks-in-washington-post-professor-urges-direct-action-to-defeat-white-supremacy/


"Defeat white supremacy"? How do you defeat something that's practically dead?

First you revive it so it's worth the cost of the bullet. [tinfoil]
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Scout26

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #89 on: August 17, 2017, 09:23:23 PM »
The entire Alt-Right thing is a creation of the DNC/Hillary/media.  How many Neo-Nazi/White Supremacist attacks/protests/etc. have you heard of in the say 10 years prior to last year's election campaign?

And to say that a New York City Liberal is a Neo-Nazi/White Supremacist stretches all credibility.  (repeat a lie often enough and it becomes accepted as true)

But by constantly doing two things:

1.  Making the NN/WS "movement" to appear larger than it really was.  And)

2.  Constantly calling all Trump supporters racists, bigots, and xenophobes.

those disaffected are now able to find and gravitate to those groups as most young men want to be part of something bigger than themselves.  Something that will put meaning and purpose in their lives (Groups that do this well are the BSA, Street Gangs, the US Army, etc.)

Sadly, the alt-right boogieman that the Left and the DNC have created from, pretty much, whole cloth the "alt-right".   Every event I've seen invovling the "alt-right" have consisted of ~200-400 f*expletive deleted*tards.   

Even this most recent event.  The overhead picture I saw of the "alt-right" surrounding the Lee Statue (during the day), it looked like there were maybe 250 there.  (give or take ~50).

And if the media and Antifa, would have ignored it, then nothing would have happened.  No, counter-protest, no violence, no dead young lady.  No wall-to-wall media coverage.  And as a bonus, without the "attention", the next event would have been smaller.   Because who wants to pay a bunch of money to go somewhere and be ignored??

Now, that blood has been shed, there are an entirely new class of f*expletive deleted*tards, on both sides, that will attend the next protest, because "I can go there, help my [misguided] team, and maybe get famous."

A pox on both houses and the media.

Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #90 on: August 17, 2017, 09:53:11 PM »
Quote
Even this most recent event.  The overhead picture I saw of the "alt-right" surrounding the Lee Statue (during the day), it looked like there were maybe 250 there.  (give or take ~50). 

The park isn't even big enough for much more than that. It's a tiny park.
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Andiron

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #91 on: August 17, 2017, 09:59:03 PM »
The alt right is largely a response to the far left.  It seems to have sprung up from the first Berkeley riot, and just gained momentum from there.  Based Stickman and all that.  Can't recall them prior to that. 

And I really can't fault a bunch of people responding in kind to a bunch of Marxists macing and beating everyone they disagree with.
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Scout26

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #92 on: August 17, 2017, 10:11:25 PM »
The alt right is largely a response to the far left.  It seems to have sprung up from the first Berkeley riot, and just gained momentum from there.  Based Stickman and all that.  Can't recall them prior to that. 

And I really can't fault a bunch of people responding in kind to a bunch of Marxists macing and beating everyone they disagree with.

Correct, that's when there were actually "alt-right" people.  Before that, during the campaign, it was "MAGA is a dog whistle to the alt-right."   "Trump's speech was red-meat for his NN/WS/AR supporters."  The press kept playing up the Trump=Alt-right, Neo-Nazi, White Supremacists support(ers) and connections (much like how it became "Russia, Russia, Russia" after 20 Jan.)  Now, it's going to be "Alt-Right, Neo-Nazi, White-Supremacist", need for a special counsel and impeachment.  Russia, will fade into the background as the media and the left (but I repeat myself) have a new cudgel to use on President Trump.   
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

DittoHead

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #93 on: August 17, 2017, 10:22:36 PM »
The entire Alt-Right thing is a creation of the DNC/Hillary/media.
Correct, that's when there were actually "alt-right" people. 
huh? Are these real people with real beliefs or not?  ???
I'm still confused if they are totally made up "fake news", or leftists who think they belong on the right, or leftists who pretend they belong on the right, or what.
Richard Spencer claims he's "alt-right", is he? If he is then I'm pretty sure I'm not...
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #94 on: August 17, 2017, 10:23:38 PM »
What first Berkeley riot? The one in February?

Then Andiron is wrong. The term cropped up on this forum at least as far back as June 2016.

http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=52039.0


Also, I have to once again recommend this article about how left-wing demonizing of white people encouraged white nationalism.

http://thefederalist.com/2016/05/23/how-anti-white-rhetoric-is-fueling-white-nationalism/
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Frank Castle

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #95 on: August 17, 2017, 10:38:26 PM »
Quote
Richard Spencer claims he's "alt-right", is he? If he is then I'm pretty sure I'm not...

Jason Kessler, the man who helped organize Saturday's white nationalist "Unite the Right" event that erupted in violence, has come under the national spotlight because of his role in the ultimately deadly event and his subsequent need to flee a press conference after being attacked. According to some persistent "rumors," prior to his rise to prominence on the far-right, Kessler embraced the far-left Occupy Wall Street movement and was an Obama supporter.




http://www.dailywire.com/news/19747/reports-man-behind-unite-right-was-occupy-wall-james-barrett

Scout26

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #96 on: August 17, 2017, 11:03:06 PM »
huh? Are these real people with real beliefs or not?  ???
I'm still confused if they are totally made up "fake news", or leftists who think they belong on the right, or leftists who pretend they belong on the right, or what.
Richard Spencer claims he's "alt-right", is he? If he is then I'm pretty sure I'm not...
What they did was take a few; a very, very, very few, like less then a couple thousand people; in various scattered "groups"* of various repungent Neo-Nazi/White Supremacist groups and amplify their "presence" (ala Jews in Germany in the 1930's) as this huge movement that was responsible for Trump's election.  And therefore, if you voted for Trump with these vile racists, that made you one also.

I remember a several news stories about an Alt-Right "convention" at a hotel in DC, with them throwing up the Nazi Salute and screaming "Heil Trump".  This "convention" drew MAYBE 400 people.... Meanwhile, on the same weekend, at the hotel across the street, a Furry Convention drew over 4,000 attendees.

But if you listen to the MSM, the countryside outside of the leftwing enclaves of the larger cities is seething with bigots and racists just waiting for "People of Color" to get out of the metro areas, so the lynchings can begin by the members of the alt-right.  Because ANYONE that doesn't read the NYT and WaPo is a member of the alt-right.

I honestly wonder if the FBI dropped the ball on the Charleston shooter just to get the ball rolling on the entire Confederate thing.





*- The vast majority of these groups had memberships in the single digits.  They had been COINTELPRO'd and sued to near extinction by the mid 1970's.  Only the Internet in the late 1990's gave them a platform to espouse their vile views.  But again, they existed at the extreme far margins of the internet.  And were more of a punchline then a real threat or presence.   All that changed with Trump and his nomination and the media blowing their influence far out of proportion.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 02:52:24 AM by Amy Schumer »
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Ben

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #97 on: August 18, 2017, 12:12:58 AM »
So now Pelosi is leading a push for statue removal at the Capitol.

I'm trying to remember who was speaker of the house before the Rs took over. Why didn't she remove these "despicable" statues then?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/08/17/confederate-statue-furor-hits-us-capitol-as-pelosi-and-others-seek-removal.html
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makattak

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #98 on: August 18, 2017, 08:26:46 AM »
What they did was take a few; a very, very, very few, like less then a couple thousand people; in various scattered "groups"* of various repungent Neo-Nazi/White Supremacist groups and amplify their "presence" (ala Jews in Germany in the 1930's) as this huge movement that was responsible for Trump's election.  And therefore, if you voted for Trump with these vile racists, that made you one also.

I remember a several news stories about an Alt-Right "convention" at a hotel in DC, with them throwing up the Nazi Salute and screaming "Heil Trump".  This "convention" drew MAYBE 400 people.... Meanwhile, on the same weekend, at the hotel across the street, a Furry Convention drew over 4,000 attendees.

But if you listen to the MSM, the countryside outside of the leftwing enclaves of the larger cities is seething with bigots and racists just waiting for "People of Color" to get out of the metro areas, so the lynchings can begin by the members of the alt-right.  Because ANYONE that doesn't read the NYT and WaPo is a member of the alt-right.

I honestly wonder if the FBI dropped the ball on the Charleston shooter just to get the ball rolling on the entire Confederate thing.





*- The vast majority of these groups had memberships in the single digits.  They had been COINTELPRO'd and sued to near extinction by the mid 1970's.  Only the Internet in the late 1990's gave them a platform to espouse their vile views.  But again, they existed at the extreme far margins of the internet.  And were more of a punchline then a real threat or presence.   All that changed with Trump and his nomination and the media blowing their influence far out of proportion.

IIRC, it was actually "Bronies" which is an even smaller subset of "Furries". (And, no, I'm not going to try to confirm that.)

On the other hand, I am also willing to believe that white nationalists/supremacists/Nazis may be growing in number. As more white people start thinking of themselves as a "race" fringe groups that support that position will also see an increase in numbers.

This development is not a result of Trump. In fact, Trump and the (reported) growth of white racist groups are a result of the same impetus: reaction to the racism of the left favoring minorities and growing animosity from the leftists towards white people. (Note: While many minorities engage is this racism, most of that animosity comes from WHITE leftists, by dint of sheer numbers. It's okay, though. They are "woke" white people.)
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Perd Hapley

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Re: Trump and Charlottesville
« Reply #99 on: August 18, 2017, 08:47:58 AM »
IIRC, it was actually "Bronies" which is an even smaller subset of "Furries". (And, no, I'm not going to try to confirm that.)


[shakes head] [questions whether he should bother with this] [decides to bother]

A furry is someone that enjoys dressing up as an animal. A brony is a male fan of My Little Pony. Two different things.

[shakes head again]


Speaking of furries:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9DajKjOr4M
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