Helsinki -- Just WOW!

[DittoHead]

Uh huh. Breaking news- governments try to affect the elections in other countries.

I know I'm supposed to get all up in arms because RUSSIA!!!! and just ignore all the meddling our country has done. Some of it was blatant, like Obama trying to unseat Netanyahu, and much more is clandestine, like the Russian efforts.

You don't need to be all up in arms. I think our president could do a better job of standing up for our country on the international stage though. That was supposed to be one of his strong points.  I didn't think the points I've made so far (bad press conference, Russian attacks are bad) are really that controversial.  

I'm supposed to be angry about it this time because the Democrats got embarrassed in an election they thought they had won? Because they thought they would control the Presidency for the foreseeable future and are now frustrated that they lost, instead?

I think you could be angry (or at least bothered?) by it all the time. As noted above, they keep doing it.

<countdown to "WHATABOUTISM!!!!" in 3,2,1....>

You can call it whataboutism, others call it moral equivalence.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-against-moral-equivalence/

When other countries spy on us, we don’t seriously treat it as a shocking moral outrage. But we do punish it and take action to prevent its recurrence, and we don’t let the knowledge that we do it too stop us.

[makattak]

You don't need to be all up in arms. I think our president could do a better job of standing up for our country on the international stage though. That was supposed to be one of his strong points.  I didn't think the points I've made so far (bad press conference, Russian attacks are bad) are really that controversial.  
I think you could be angry (or at least bothered?) by it all the time. As noted above, they keep doing it.
You can call it whataboutism, others call it moral equivalence.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-against-moral-equivalence/

So are you suggesting that we aren't trying to stop foreign interference in our country?

Are your further suggesting that our intelligence agencies aren't working to "punish" Russia through a response of a similar type to the one they did?

My point isn't that it's no big deal, who cares, it's that WE ARE DOING THAT RIGHT NOW, too. Whether in response to the Russians or as a matter of course, we are responding to them.

And, again, the press conference for your first meeting with another leader is the appropriate time to call them a liar? Because that's what you and the... intrepid journalists... are intimating.

[RoadKingLarry]

What a *expletive deleted*it show. So Trump actually display some diplomacy and didn't attempt to initiate WW III and the libtards are upset. He impuned the credibility of the very Intel agencies that have actively used the power of the state against him, both before the election and since, and heads are exploding and screaming for impeachment for treason.

[makattak]

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/07/16/rand_paul_people_hate_trump_so_much_they_refuse_to_work_responsibly_with_russia.html

Rand Paul with a clear understanding of what is going on.

[makattak]

You don't need to be all up in arms. I think our president could do a better job of standing up for our country on the international stage though. That was supposed to be one of his strong points.  I didn't think the points I've made so far (bad press conference, Russian attacks are bad) are really that controversial.  
I think you could be angry (or at least bothered?) by it all the time. As noted above, they keep doing it.
You can call it whataboutism, others call it moral equivalence.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-against-moral-equivalence/

Oh, I forgot another point: The reason I'm not all up in arms about this is because the amount of "meddling" by Russia is a joke.

They didn't hack voting machines. They didn't change votes.

If EVERYTHING that is alleged is true, they caught the Democrats in a laughable Phishing scheme (that the Republicans were sufficiently competent to avoid) and published emails that embarrassed the Democrats.

THE DEMOCRATS GOT EMBARRASSED! IT'S TIME TO NUKE MOSCOW!

[DittoHead]

So are you suggesting that we aren't trying to stop foreign interference in our country?
Are your further suggesting that our intelligence agencies aren't working to "punish" Russia through a response of a similar type to the one they did?

I don't claim to know everything our country is doing to respond behind the scenes and I don't believe I did any suggesting that they are doing nothing.
The public response by the president has been weak, exceptionally so at this press conference.

And, again, the press conference for your first meeting with another leader is the appropriate time to call them a liar? Because that's what you and the... intrepid journalists... are intimating.

I'm not going to speak for the... intrepid journalists... and I am not intimating anything undiplomatic was the proper course. I believe there is some middle ground between calling Putin a liar and doing what Trump did at this press conference. A response that would be diplomatic, without throwing our intelligence agencies under the bus and blaming America. Also, without ranting about the electoral college and Hillary's servers & emails, or thanking Putin for his absurd offer to "assist us" with cyber security and the Mueller investigation.

[makattak]

I'm not going to speak for the... intrepid journalists... and I am not intimating anything undiplomatic was the proper course. I believe there is some middle ground calling Putin a liar and doing what Trump did at this press conference. A response that would be diplomatic, without throwing our intelligence agencies under the bus and blaming America. Also, without ranting about the electoral college and Hillary's servers & emails, or thanking Putin for his absurd offer to "assist us" with cyber security and the Mueller investigation.

If all you are saying is that Trump could have been more politic about the intelligence agencies, sure, he probably could have.

He's not trying to butter them up. In fact, he's clearly being targeted by elements of those agencies (and the HUGE number of leaks from these agencies proves that) so he's more than willing to attack them whenever and wherever he can.

But, again, the OUTRAGE!!!! over this and the OUTRAGE over the RUSSIA HACKING!!!!! is clearly, as Rand Paul noted, about hating Trump and not a proper response to the issues as presented.

[brimic]

http://www.michaelzwilliamson.com/blog/index.php?itemid=467

[makattak]

A very intelligent analysis (because he agrees with me):

https://amgreatness.com/2018/07/17/diplomacy-101-vs-politics-writ-small/

[Angel Eyes]

http://www.michaelzwilliamson.com/blog/index.php?itemid=467

And aren't you the same *expletive deleted*ing shitweasels who were screaming about Iraq, accusing Trump of risking a war with North Korea, a nation who is outgunned by several metropolitan police departments,

I'm unaware of any police departments (metropolitan or otherwise) with nuclear weapons.

[makattak]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-17/trump-says-he-accepts-u-s-finding-russia-meddled-in-election

And Trump walks some of it back.

Because it would have been stupid to call Putin a liar to his face.

This pretty much tracks with exactly what I've been saying.

(Though Trump is still being too polite, I'd have gone with "Of COURSE they meddled in the election you monumental morons. Asking that question and daring me to insult the man I'm trying to negotiate with just proves how stupid and vile you all are.)

[Hawkmoon]

http://www.michaelzwilliamson.com/blog/index.php?itemid=467

I don't see anything there I disagree with.

[De Selby]

Trump represents the mood of his electors by not baiting conflict with Russia and reaffirming that his voters deserve to have a voice in picking the president.

Democrats and law enforcement, who oppose those voters, declare his efforts to stand up for the views of the electorate as an assault on democracy, and demand that their votes take second place to an unelected law enforcement and intelligence agency view.

The problem isn’t Russian meddling - the problem is that voters agreed that Trump was a better candidate and now various institutions are trying to subvert that vote. They cannot seem to wrap their heads around the fact that it is the voters, and the people they elect, who get to decide on what terms the US engaged with Russia (and therefore who define what is treason!)

[MechAg94]

h
(Though Trump is still being too polite, I'd have gone with "Of COURSE they meddled in the election you monumental morons. Asking that question and daring me to insult the man I'm trying to negotiate with just proves how stupid and vile you all are.)

The new media was looking for any sliver they could find of Trump admitting Russia helped him get elected.  I thought he handled that part of it just fine. 

[MechAg94]

If all you are saying is that Trump could have been more politic about the intelligence agencies, sure, he probably could have.

He's not trying to butter them up. In fact, he's clearly being targeted by elements of those agencies (and the HUGE number of leaks from these agencies proves that) so he's more than willing to attack them whenever and wherever he can.

But, again, the OUTRAGE!!!! over this and the OUTRAGE over the RUSSIA HACKING!!!!! is clearly, as Rand Paul noted, about hating Trump and not a proper response to the issues as presented.

Rush Limbaugh said something similar about the intelligence agencies attacking Trump.  The last few years every other day in the media is some article citing unnamed sources in govt or in some intelligence agency.  Why is it unusual that he might see them as adversaries when they (or certain members) seem to be acting the part. 

[makattak]

Rush Limbaugh said something similar about the intelligence agencies attacking Trump.  The last few years every other day in the media is some article citing unnamed sources in govt or in some intelligence agency.  Why is it unusual that he might see them as adversaries when they (or certain members) seem to be acting the part. 

This is exactly why Rush Limbaugh is such a genius. He agrees with me.

(Oh, and he says things in a much better, wittier, and more informative way than I do, but what's important is he agrees with me.)

[brimic]

Rush Limbaugh said something similar about the intelligence agencies attacking Trump.  The last few years every other day in the media is some article citing unnamed sources in govt or in some intelligence agency.  Why is it unusual that he might see them as adversaries when they (or certain members) seem to be acting the part. 

Civil/political war within the Federal government. .mil/NSA/Trump/DHS on one side and CIA/FBI/Clinton Crime Syndicate/Globalist interests/Mainstream media on the other. If you watch the news very carefully and how agencies/congresscritters posture, you can see where every actor falls.

[grampster]

For the... intrepid journalists.... who seem to be unable to understand how diplomacy and, in specific, Trump diplomacy works, allow me to elucidate:

At a face-to-face meeting, in public, in the press, you don't attack the other side during the press conference or in public. (This is just "normal" diplomacy, not even Trump diplomacy. Grievances and problems are not and can not be resolved in a press conference.)

I realize these.... intrepid journalists.... think Trump is a bull in a china shop, but look at how he's handled EVERY meeting with a world leader. Whatever he may think or say in private, in public they're the greatest person in the world. Look at his meetings with the Mexican president, Teresa May, "Rocket Man," etc...

Trump doesn't attack these people in public and in person. Public Trump is a different character than Twitter Trump who is further different from Private Meeting Trump.

And these... intrepid journalists... are unable to grasp that.

^^^^This.  Except when he is shitting on CNN and Lame Stream Media.

[Scout26]

I like how the left is all "The Intelligence community says Russia did it !!!"

The same intelligence community that missed the WTC bombing (the first time), 9/11, Got us into a war in Iraq on false pretenses, etc ??  Those guys that you lambasted for being wrong, Wrong, WRONG!!! in the past, you now hold up as the absolute authorities as getting this right ??

Color me skeptical... 

[Perd Hapley]

I like how the left is all "The Intelligence community says Russia did it !!!"

The same intelligence community that missed the WTC bombing (the first time), 9/11, Got us into a war in Iraq on false pretenses, etc ??  Those guys that you lambasted for being wrong, Wrong, WRONG!!! in the past, you now hold up as the absolute authorities as getting this right ??

Color me skeptical... 

Is that like how they hated law enforcement when it was hunting unarmed black kids for sport, but then were outraged that Trump would have misgivings about the FBI, but then they want to abolish ICE?

[De Selby]

Is that like how they hated law enforcement when it was hunting unarmed black kids for sport, but then were outraged that Trump would have misgivings about the FBI, but then they want to abolish ICE?

Then blasts Trump for actually making a statement about the issue during the campaign, which said there was more to do in race relations and correctly identified a lack of economic power as part of the problem?

Yep. Crazy

[Boomhauer]

What happened to the "Asia Pivot" ??

Did the 1980's call back and offer their foreign policy ??

Did China and Best Korea "meddle" in our election(s) ??

And since no votes were changed, nor voting machines hacked, what exactly was the "meddling" that they did ??  Did they send people from "Organizing For Russia" to work for Trump and help canvass neighborhoods ??  Did they donate large amounts of money to help defeat our sitting Prime Minister ??  What exactly did they do ??

The Russians found some boxes of forgotten absentee ballots in the trunk of a Lada


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DittoHead]

Color me skeptical... 

Skeptical that it was Russia?

[Scout26]

Skeptical that it was Russia?

Yes, since the server was never examined by the FBI.

https://www.thenation.com/article/a-new-report-raises-big-questions-about-last-years-dnc-hack/

https://theforensicator.wordpress.com/page/1/

[bedlamite]

Yes, since the server was never examined by the FBI.

https://www.thenation.com/article/a-new-report-raises-big-questions-about-last-years-dnc-hack/

https://theforensicator.wordpress.com/page/1/

I'm surprised they didn't. They missed an opportunity and could have blamed it on Trump.