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Author Topic: $75K/Year to be on the Poop Patrol  (Read 3628 times)

dm1333

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Re: $75K/Year to be on the Poop Patrol
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2018, 07:04:00 AM »

The problem isn't a lack of public toilets.  The problem is a group of people who enable this kind of behavior.

MillCreek

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Re: $75K/Year to be on the Poop Patrol
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2018, 07:22:07 AM »

Seattle and Portland have done some experiments with accessible toilets in public areas, and they have worked reasonably well albeit at a high cost.  The initial attempt in Seattle failed miserably insofar as the toilets became sites for prostitution and drug use.  Portland then came up with the 'Portland Loo: http://portlandloo.com/ and that seems to be working pretty well.

https://www.citylab.com/design/2012/01/why-portlands-public-toilets-succeeded-where-others-failed/1020/

https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/seattle/seattle-to-install-public-toilets-in-ballard-u-district/460369165

Public sanitation requirement is a fact of life, and the more restroom access that people have, the less crap on the streets.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
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Ben

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Re: $75K/Year to be on the Poop Patrol
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2018, 07:31:30 AM »

The problem isn't a lack of public toilets.  The problem is a group of people who enable this kind of behavior.

While the problem is multi-faceted, this certainly is a big part of it. If someone has stats to prove me wrong, feel free to post and I'll reevaluate my opinion, but the greatest homeless problems (separate from homelessness in general) seem to really focus on liberal cities. Even taking climate into account, San Diego has less of a homeless problem than San Francisco. San Diego has a homeless problem, but they don't have as many "problem homeless".

I certainly saw that in Santa Barbara. We had homeless who spit on you there. All the downtown businesses, Chamber of Commerce, etc. complained and asked the city council to do something, but the city council wanted to be diverse and understanding. When the local government enables the behavior, that city will become a magnet for the problem homeless. So while San Diego has homeless camping out and sitting around downtown with "need money" signs, but generally being this side of polite, you have problem homeless in San Francisco doing all the crap they do there because the city enables them, like by scooping up their poop and giving them needles. It's like the parent giving in to the child who is having a tantrum in the middle of Walmart.
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dm1333

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Re: $75K/Year to be on the Poop Patrol
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2018, 08:41:20 AM »

Seattle and Portland have done some experiments with accessible toilets in public areas, and they have worked reasonably well albeit at a high cost.  The initial attempt in Seattle failed miserably insofar as the toilets became sites for prostitution and drug use.  Portland then came up with the 'Portland Loo: http://portlandloo.com/ and that seems to be working pretty well.

https://www.citylab.com/design/2012/01/why-portlands-public-toilets-succeeded-where-others-failed/1020/

https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/seattle/seattle-to-install-public-toilets-in-ballard-u-district/460369165

Public sanitation requirement is a fact of life, and the more restroom access that people have, the less crap on the streets.

I would rephrase that, the less homeless people you have the less crap there is on the streets. 

Homeless people taking a crap on the street is a symptom, it isn't the real problem.  And there isn't just one problem to solve, either.  The northern CA town I lived in for 8 years had enough shelters that every single homeless person could get three meals a day and sleep with a roof over their head.  Large numbers of homeless still slept outdoors and passed up those free meals according to the PD and local charities.  Why would they choose to do that?

lee n. field

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Re: $75K/Year to be on the Poop Patrol
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2018, 09:53:12 AM »

Seattle and Portland have done some experiments with accessible toilets in public areas, and they have worked reasonably well albeit at a high cost.  The initial attempt in Seattle failed miserably insofar as the toilets became sites for prostitution and drug use.  Portland then came up with the 'Portland Loo: http://portlandloo.com and that seems to be working pretty well.

Public sanitation requirement is a fact of life, and the more restroom access that people have, the less crap on the streets.

Interesting.  I don't imagine with all that stainless steel and open breezy grating it would be all that much fun to use in a good hard Midwest winter.
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Firethorn

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Re: $75K/Year to be on the Poop Patrol
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2018, 10:05:03 AM »

Why would they choose to do that?

Generally because said homeless shelters have policies that disallow the homeless from using them without jumping through what I would term "excessive" hoops.  One of the major requirements to be sober/dry before being let in.  Withdrawal sucks enough that sleeping outside while intoxicated is better than attempting to sleep inside undergoing withdrawal.  In other cases the person needs to have a clean criminal record, not bring XYZ in(when XYZ is about all the person owns), etc...

That's why there is currently a big push towards "housing first" policies, that isn't restricted to liberal cities, that studies have shown to save substantial amounts of money.

The idea is simple:  Get the homeless housed in a permanent way first.  It turns out that the temporary nature of "shelters" ends up being both expensive(you could put them up in hotels for the nightly cost), and ineffective(psychological stuff). 

By getting them into housing that they don't have a set time limit after which they have to leave, they can afford to "settle in", check off that box in the pyramid of needs(shelter), and move up. 

Once they're settled in, that is when you move in with things like addiction treatment, counseling, metal health care, etc...

Quote from: MillCreek
Interesting.  I don't imagine with all that stainless steel and open breezy grating it would be all that much fun to use in a good hard Midwest winter.

Still better than taking a crap on the pavement?

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Re: $75K/Year to be on the Poop Patrol
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2018, 10:23:57 AM »

$75K for a fairly simple job. I'd be willing to clean up poo for $75K.

But it's nowhere near enough just to pay me to move to San Fancisco.
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Re: $75K/Year to be on the Poop Patrol
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2018, 10:37:11 AM »

I've never been to Frisco, but from what I'm hearing the public pooping is rather a new problem. Did all of those public toilets for the homeless just vanish? If the problem is that they've not enough public facilities, shouldn't that be easy to prove by just finding the data on public toilets per 100,000 of the city's population, over time?


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MillCreek

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Re: $75K/Year to be on the Poop Patrol
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2018, 10:57:48 AM »

Most of the shelter beds in Seattle are full on any given night; but interviews have been done of people who have passed up a shelter bed.  I have read several articles about this in local media.  The three most common reasons to pass up a bed are:
1. No drugs or alcohol are allowed
2. No pets are allowed
3. No couples are allowed

For people who are not mentally ill or have substance use disorders, the no pets and I can't stay with my wife/husband/partner are the big reasons.  Just like those of us with homes, many of the homeless have pets and/or people for security and companionship.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

MillCreek

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Re: $75K/Year to be on the Poop Patrol
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2018, 11:00:04 AM »

Interesting.  I don't imagine with all that stainless steel and open breezy grating it would be all that much fun to use in a good hard Midwest winter.

The designers of the Portland Loo actually talk about how the unit was designed to be relatively unpleasant to loiter in: do your business and leave.
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MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

Ben

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Re: $75K/Year to be on the Poop Patrol
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2018, 12:32:42 PM »

Generally because said homeless shelters have policies that disallow the homeless from using them without jumping through what I would term "excessive" hoops.  One of the major requirements to be sober/dry before being let in.  Withdrawal sucks enough that sleeping outside while intoxicated is better than attempting to sleep inside undergoing withdrawal.  In other cases the person needs to have a clean criminal record, not bring XYZ in(when XYZ is about all the person owns), etc...

To use Santa Barbara again, yeah, I saw a good bit of that. The shelters were available, but certain segments of the homeless population would not use them. They generally stayed in encampments under a couple of railroad bridges or in a couple of local parks. Paramedics were at those places at least weekly for alcohol poisoning or drug overdoses. Which I guess is fine as it's Darwin in action, except for at the parks some of the homeless were criminals and a danger to city residents, especially kids.

The kinds of people that went into the shelters seemed to be more of the "because of bad luck" homeless, who were more inclined to try and do something about their situation. I think it's much better for people like that to have some protection from the seedier elements, so I think the shelter rules are a good thing.
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dm1333

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Re: $75K/Year to be on the Poop Patrol
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2018, 12:52:23 PM »

While the problem is multi-faceted, this certainly is a big part of it. If someone has stats to prove me wrong, feel free to post and I'll reevaluate my opinion, but the greatest homeless problems (separate from homelessness in general) seem to really focus on liberal cities. Even taking climate into account, San Diego has less of a homeless problem than San Francisco. San Diego has a homeless problem, but they don't have as many "problem homeless".

I certainly saw that in Santa Barbara. We had homeless who spit on you there. All the downtown businesses, Chamber of Commerce, etc. complained and asked the city council to do something, but the city council wanted to be diverse and understanding. When the local government enables the behavior, that city will become a magnet for the problem homeless. So while San Diego has homeless camping out and sitting around downtown with "need money" signs, but generally being this side of polite, you have problem homeless in San Francisco doing all the crap they do there because the city enables them, like by scooping up their poop and giving them needles. It's like the parent giving in to the child who is having a tantrum in the middle of Walmart.

I was shocked when the city came out with an anti pan handling campaign.  I was even more shocked at how many liberals were in favor of it.  My guess is that in a town of 10,000 people you can't really overlook how many homeless there were and the pan handlers were aggressive.  The local shelters were all booze/drug free, that was the reason people chose to stay on the streets.

dogmush

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Re: $75K/Year to be on the Poop Patrol
« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2018, 12:54:51 PM »

Why are they communists?

I suspect bad parenting, and lack of being taught to think, but with Union members it could just be they picked it up at the hall.

Fly320s

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Re: $75K/Year to be on the Poop Patrol
« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2018, 01:55:58 PM »

The designers of the Portland Loo actually talk about how the unit was designed to be relatively unpleasant to loiter in: do your business and leave.

No sink.  That is unpleasent enough.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: $75K/Year to be on the Poop Patrol
« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2018, 02:02:04 PM »

I suspect bad parenting, and lack of being taught to think, but with Union members it could just be they picked it up at the hall.

 :lol:
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Doggy Daddy

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Re: $75K/Year to be on the Poop Patrol
« Reply #40 on: August 26, 2018, 03:36:38 PM »

No sink.  That is unpleasent enough.

Looks like there's a hand sanitizer dispenser inside, and hand-washing facilities on the outside of the Loo.
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freakazoid

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Re: $75K/Year to be on the Poop Patrol
« Reply #41 on: August 26, 2018, 03:51:04 PM »

Remember when PETA rented that robot to try to drive homeless out of their parking lot?

Ummm... What?
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French G.

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Re: $75K/Year to be on the Poop Patrol
« Reply #42 on: August 26, 2018, 05:33:39 PM »

Why are they communists?
I think the history of organized labor will bail me out on that one.

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HankB

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Re: $75K/Year to be on the Poop Patrol
« Reply #43 on: August 27, 2018, 04:15:10 AM »

Roughly $37.50/hour+ benefits. 

It's just hard to believe that one of the most trendy, upscale, and "progressive" cities in America has a huge problem with people crapping on the sidewalks, so much so that they have to hire people to clean it up.  (along with hypodermic needles, as I understand it.)

My mind boggles. 
I wonder if they have different union rules for poop patrol and needle patrol, so one can't police up the other's mess?
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Perd Hapley

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Re: $75K/Year to be on the Poop Patrol
« Reply #44 on: August 27, 2018, 05:58:42 AM »

I wonder if they have different union rules for poop patrol and needle patrol, so one can't police up the other's mess?


Yeah, but what if the needle has poop in it? Wasn't that trending right in between the ice bucket challenge, and the Harlem shake?
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