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Author Topic: Greenpeace Founder: ‘Climate Change Crisis’ Is a ‘Completely Made-Up Issue’  (Read 2949 times)

WLJ

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More from Patrick Moore

Quote
[They] invent ever-more far-fetched problems that in the end don’t really exist. The climate change issue a completely made-up issue. Of course the climate has been changing, ever since the Earth was born, and of course it’s still changing now. It hasn’t really changed very much. People don’t even realize that 20,000 years ago there was a mile of ice on top of New York City, and three miles of ice on top of Montreal. That change from then until now is substantial, but the little bit of temperature change that has occurred in the last couple of hundred years on the planet Earth is nothing compared to the changes that have occurred in the past over time. It is completely exaggerated, and it being used to scare people.

Greenpeace Founder: ‘Climate Change Crisis’ Is a ‘Completely Made-Up Issue’
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/03/21/greenpeace-founder-climate-change-crisis-is-a-completely-made-up-issue/



Never Underestimate The Power Of The Stupid Side

WLJ

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Is it Tin-foil-hat of me for me to expect this guy to be found dead soon?
Never Underestimate The Power Of The Stupid Side

Hawkmoon

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Is it Tin-foil-hat of me for me to expect this guy to be found dead soon?

Unfortunately, probably not. He makes too much sense.

bedlamite

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Is it Tin-foil-hat of me for me to expect this guy to be found dead soon?

Wouldn't surprise me. They have already started erasing him.

https://www.cfact.org/2019/03/17/greenpeace-and-google-disappear-dr-patrick-moore/
Is defenestration possible through the overton window?

MechAg94

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Is it Tin-foil-hat of me for me to expect this guy to be found dead soon?
Maybe an ice hat would be more appropriate.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Ron

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Burn the heretic at the stake!

The wish not to believe can influence as strongly as the wish to believe.

Who can escape their own cognitive biases?

WLJ

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Burn the heretic at the stake!



But fire adds to climate change
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Ron

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Mulch the heritic!
The wish not to believe can influence as strongly as the wish to believe.

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WLJ

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Never Underestimate The Power Of The Stupid Side

230RN

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We  have got to stop putting fuzzy-headed Nannies in positions of political power.

Hawkmoon

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Do we need [more] proof that the "climate change" crisis is not a crisis, man-made or otherwise, but a man-made fraud? Here we go, then:

https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/key-greenland-glacier-growing-again-after-shrinking-years-nasa-study-ncna987116

Greenland's largest glacier has been growing, not shrinking, for the past two years. That should be good news, right? Well ... unless you're a "climate change OMG" acolyte, that is. To the acolytes, this is kind of like Mueller's report finding that there was no Russian collusion by the rump campaign.

Quote
A natural cyclical cooling of North Atlantic waters likely caused the glacier to reverse course, said study lead author Ala Khazendar, a NASA glaciologist on the Oceans Melting Greenland (OMG) project. Khazendar and colleagues say this coincides with a flip of the North Atlantic Oscillation — a natural and temporary cooling and warming of parts of the ocean that is like a distant cousin to El Nino in the Pacific.

The water in Disko Bay, where Jakobshavn hits the ocean, is about 3.6 degrees cooler than a few years ago, study authors said.

While this is “good news” on a temporary basis, this is bad news on the long term because it tells scientists that ocean temperature is a bigger player in glacier retreats and advances than previously thought, said NASA climate scientist Josh Willis, a study co-author. Over the decades the water has been and will be warming from man-made climate change, he said, noting that about 90 percent of the heat trapped by greenhouse gases goes into the oceans.

“In the long run we’ll probably have to raise our predictions of sea level rise again,” Willis said.

So, if it's cyclical when the water cools and the glacier grows, why isn't it cyclical when the water warms and the glacier shrinks? What was the extent and thickness of this clacier over the 500 year period when the Vikings inhabited Greenland, from [roughly] 900 A.D. to 1400 A.D.?

As usual, when the evidence supports the narrative, the true believers cite the evidence. When the evidence contradicts the narrative ... it's only a temporary aberration, and we just have to "raise our predictions" (translation: revise the models and tinker with the data some more) in order to continue to "prove" that what we said would happen WILL happen, even while the opposite IS happening.

We should be selling tickets. George Carlin would be proud.

WLJ

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It's not exactly a secret that many glaciers ebb and flow 
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MechAg94

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It's not exactly a secret that many glaciers ebb and flow 
It seems to be a secret kept from a lot of global warming advocates.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Firethorn

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It's not exactly a secret that many glaciers ebb and flow 

Very true.  The problem I see though with denying global warming/climate change is that sure, ONE glacier is growing.  What about the hundred or so that are shrinking?

I see it like examining a house for dry rot.  You sample 12 boards, 11 have dry rot, 1 is sound.  Do you say the house has dry rot because of the 11 boards, or that the house is fine because of the 1 that didn't have dry rot?

Fact:  We're expecting the northern passage through the arctic sea to open up enough for routine traffic any year now.  Bays up here in and around Alaska are opening up from ice sooner and sooner. 

It's not like the people who want to prevent/limit global climate change want us to go back to having a mile of ice on top of where NYC is.  They want to limit the amount of ice melt on Antarctica and elsewhere so that major coastal cities don't end up underwater, or even just lose so much buffer that they flood too much.  Ocean biology types are worried about acidification killing the coral reefs, as well as pteropods and other calcium using microbes, which will cause us to lose a lot of fish stocks. 

bedlamite

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Very true.  The problem I see though with denying global warming/climate change is that sure, ONE glacier is growing.  What about the hundred or so that are shrinking?

I see it like examining a house for dry rot.  You sample 12 boards, 11 have dry rot, 1 is sound.  Do you say the house has dry rot because of the 11 boards, or that the house is fine because of the 1 that didn't have dry rot?

Fact:  We're expecting the northern passage through the arctic sea to open up enough for routine traffic any year now.  Bays up here in and around Alaska are opening up from ice sooner and sooner. 

It's not like the people who want to prevent/limit global climate change want us to go back to having a mile of ice on top of where NYC is.  They want to limit the amount of ice melt on Antarctica and elsewhere so that major coastal cities don't end up underwater, or even just lose so much buffer that they flood too much.  Ocean biology types are worried about acidification killing the coral reefs, as well as pteropods and other calcium using microbes, which will cause us to lose a lot of fish stocks. 

Yep, there are a lot of problems, but it would really help if they were approached logically instead of ZOMG THE SKY IS FALLING!!!11!!1
Is defenestration possible through the overton window?

Ron

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Very true.  The problem I see though with denying global warming/climate change is that sure, ONE glacier is growing.  What about the hundred or so that are shrinking?

I see it like examining a house for dry rot.  You sample 12 boards, 11 have dry rot, 1 is sound.  Do you say the house has dry rot because of the 11 boards, or that the house is fine because of the 1 that didn't have dry rot?

Fact:  We're expecting the northern passage through the arctic sea to open up enough for routine traffic any year now.  Bays up here in and around Alaska are opening up from ice sooner and sooner.  

It's not like the people who want to prevent/limit global climate change want us to go back to having a mile of ice on top of where NYC is.  They want to limit the amount of ice melt on Antarctica and elsewhere so that major coastal cities don't end up underwater, or even just lose so much buffer that they flood too much.  Ocean biology types are worried about acidification killing the coral reefs, as well as pteropods and other calcium using microbes, which will cause us to lose a lot of fish stocks.  

The problem is the planet warms and the planet cools, regardless of mankind.

I won’t bother asking you what percentage of climate change is natural vs mankind induced.

10% mankind? 40% mankind? 100% mankind? 1% mankind?

Climate scientists don’t know is the answer.

By know I mean know in the verifiable, testable, able to withstand falsification know.

You know, science.



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Who can escape their own cognitive biases?

Hawkmoon

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I confess. I'm a climate change sinner. Last weekend I used a match to light a stick of incense in my living room.

Enjoy whatever is left of your lives, because I have sealed your collective doom.

Firethorn

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I won’t bother asking you what percentage of climate change is natural vs mankind induced.

By most of the definitions I've seen, 100%.  Because it's defined as the change in climate caused by humans. 

That said, rather than percentages, it's normally stated in degrees.  4-6F by 2050, for example.  Do you actually NEED to run off the cliff and crash at the base in order to accept that there is a cliff ahead?

The problem with your demands is that to meet the falsification levels you demand we'd need to have duplicate earths in order to "test".  If we had multiple earths, we wouldn't really need to worry about global warming...

As such, computer modeling is used(which has been refined tremendously since the '80s when we started modeling), continued observations, and falsifiable experiments conducted at smaller sizes. 

Oh, and Hawkmoon, wood, what matches are made out of, is a carbon neutral fuel.  As is most incense stuff.  It's the coal, gasoline, and natural gas that is adding carbon to the atmosphere.  Non-carbon energy sources includes nuclear, solar, wind, hydro, geothermal, and more.  We don't even need to eliminate all CO2 production, just get it down to a level where we aren't threatening our ocean ecology(fish are good to have, right?), flooding coastal cities, losing much of Florida, etc...

Hawkmoon

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We don't even need to eliminate all CO2 production, just get it down to a level where we aren't threatening our ocean ecology(fish are good to have, right?), flooding coastal cities, losing much of Florida, etc...

How much lower were the oceans when the North American continental glaciers extended as far south as mid-state New York and Holyoke, Massachusetts? How much higher were the oceans when the Vikings were living on Greenland year 'round? They were there for roughly 500 years. Even if you dismiss that as an atypical "warming spell," it was a warming spell -- which was then followed by significant cooling off and growth of glaciers. Was that 500 year "warming spell" all caused (100 percent) by human activity? If not, why should we say/believe that current warming is 100 percent caused by human activity?

TommyGunn

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Oh, goody, another argument over man-made globular warmulating!!!!!! [popcorn] [tinfoil] :facepalm: :facepalm:
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

Firethorn

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How much lower were the oceans when the North American continental glaciers extended as far south as mid-state New York and Holyoke, Massachusetts? How much higher were the oceans when the Vikings were living on Greenland year 'round? They were there for roughly 500 years. Even if you dismiss that as an atypical "warming spell," it was a warming spell -- which was then followed by significant cooling off and growth of glaciers. Was that 500 year "warming spell" all caused (100 percent) by human activity? If not, why should we say/believe that current warming is 100 percent caused by human activity?

1: enough that we had a land/ice bridge between North America and  Siberia.
2: That was a gulf stream event, localized, oceans weren't significantly higher

Doesn't really matter though, as we hadn't built mega-cities on the coasts yet.  We're concerned about current conditions, remember?

Current warming is caused by human activity because that is what all the calculations tell us.  All the simulation models don't match up with current conditions unless the human changes are included.  Or do you believe that current CO2 levels(not to mention other gasses, CO2 is only the biggest) aren't caused by humans?

And really, it doesn't matter whether the warming is man made or not, the flooding will happen I'd the Earth warms, period.  We'd like to prevent that bit, remember?  Also, not killing our oceans would be nice, they're a big part of the biosphere.  And that is more about acidification from the extra CO2.

EDIT:  Holy heck, doing research for my MSL class (ocean studies), and came across this:
https://www.npr.org/2018/04/13/602240020/atlantic-ocean-current-slows-down-to-1-000-year-low-studies-show

Basically, Greenland's glacier could be growing because local temperatures are cooling because the AMOC process has slowed(an ocean circulation system), resulting in less heat being moved to the area.  Of course, the weakening of the AMOC process was due to greenland's melting glaciers dumping vast amounts of cold fresh water into the ocean...  So at least it seems a bit self-regulating.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 01:29:34 AM by Firethorn »

Ron

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Climate science = mainstream news

Calculations, heh

I agree with you on this though, adapt or die.
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makattak

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2: That was a gulf stream event, localized, oceans weren't significantly higher


That's an amazing amount of certainty for an event 1000 years in the past.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Firethorn

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That's an amazing amount of certainty for an event 1000 years in the past.

Eh, you're right.  I was just repeating what I remembered.  Turns out I was wrong too:

https://news.utexas.edu/2010/11/11/medieval-warm-period-not-so-random/

1.  Increased solar radiation during the period
2.  Decreased volcanic activity (this stuff adds up)
3.  Shifts in ocean current bringing warmer water to the area.