Author Topic: Mueller is done  (Read 23937 times)

Hawkmoon

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Re: Mueller is done
« Reply #125 on: May 09, 2019, 01:12:10 AM »
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WLJ

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Re: Mueller is done
« Reply #126 on: May 29, 2019, 11:46:58 AM »
He really is done

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"I'm speaking out today because our investigation is complete," Mueller said. "We are formally closing the Special Counsel's office and I am resigning from the Department of Justice to return private life."
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"I hope and expect this to be the only time that I will speak to you in this manner. I am making that decision myself," Mueller said. "I do not believe it is appropriate for me to speak further about the investigation."

"The report is my testimony...Our written work speaks for itself," he continued. "Any testimony would not go beyond our report...We chose those words carefully."

But then he throws the media a bone

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"I will close by reiterating the central allegation of our indictments, that there were multiple, systematic efforts to interfere in our election. And that allegation deserves the attention of every American,” Mueller said.

Mueller: The Special Counsel Report Speaks for Itself, I'm Not Commenting Further
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2019/05/29/robert-mueller-statement-n2547007
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WLJ

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Re: Mueller is done
« Reply #127 on: May 29, 2019, 11:56:22 AM »
From the AP
In short: No evidence proves he's guilty 

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WASHINGTON (AP) — Special counsel Robert Mueller said Wednesday he believed he was constitutionally barred from charging President Donald Trump with a crime but pointedly emphasized that his report did not exonerate the president. He cautioned lawmakers who have been negotiating for his public testimony that he would not go beyond his report in the event he appears before Congress.
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Trump, who has repeatedly and falsely claimed that Mueller's report cleared him of obstruction of justice, modified that contention somewhat shortly after the special counsel's remarks. He tweeted, "There was insufficient evidence and therefore, in our Country, a person is innocent. The case is closed!"

Mueller: Special counsel probe did not exonerate Trump
https://www.wdrb.com/news/national/mueller-special-counsel-probe-did-not-exonerate-trump/article_8d8d0ae7-4146-5eca-8223-bd94090dba17.html
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MechAg94

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Re: Mueller is done
« Reply #128 on: May 29, 2019, 12:37:50 PM »
It really isn't the prosecutor's job to exonerate someone. 
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HankB

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Re: Mueller is done
« Reply #129 on: May 29, 2019, 01:20:30 PM »
It really isn't the prosecutor's job to exonerate someone. 
And proof of innocence can be difficult to establish - for example, how many people who drive the typical 10k - 20k miles per year can prove they never exceeded the speed limit in 2016?
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Mueller is done
« Reply #130 on: May 29, 2019, 01:45:32 PM »
It really isn't the prosecutor's job to exonerate someone. 

Unless the prosecutor is Comey and the someone is Hillary...
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WLJ

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Re: Mueller is done
« Reply #131 on: May 29, 2019, 02:01:00 PM »
Comey doesn't want to go out like a kamikaze
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Scout26

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Re: Mueller is done
« Reply #132 on: May 29, 2019, 04:04:32 PM »
They are all but coming out and daring Nancy to pull the trigger on impeachment.
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Mueller is done
« Reply #133 on: May 29, 2019, 04:49:45 PM »
He really is done


He may be done but the news media idiots aren't.  :facepalm:

How NBC managed to turn a 9 minute speech that could be summed up in less than two minutes into almost a full hour Special News Report is really obnoxious.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Mueller is done
« Reply #134 on: May 29, 2019, 04:59:15 PM »
He may be done but the news media idiots aren't.  :facepalm:

How NBC managed to turn a 9 minute speech that could be summed up in less than two minutes into almost a full hour Special News Report is really obnoxious.

Remember, these people don't understand summaries. They thought Barr's summary should have been the entire, non-redacted document.
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BobR

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Re: Mueller is done
« Reply #135 on: May 29, 2019, 05:17:29 PM »
I am catching some of the fallout on the online news sources. The many Senators (D) are all calling for impeachment proceedings knowing that they will mostly be safe from the fallout because they aren't the one bringing it home, they will just be able to say we could not succeed because of the other side of the aisle. I think they think having the House run this up the pole is as good as an all out win. I think they misjudge us uneducated, smelly Walmart shoppers.

bob

WLJ

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Re: Mueller is done
« Reply #136 on: May 29, 2019, 07:00:27 PM »
I guess the new norm is going to be convicting anyone who can't prove they didn't commit a crime. 
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Mueller is done
« Reply #137 on: May 29, 2019, 08:37:32 PM »
I guess the new norm is going to be convicting anyone who can't prove they didn't commit a crime. 

The facts of the case are irrelevant, it is the seriousness of the allegations that matter.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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MechAg94

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Re: Mueller is done
« Reply #138 on: May 29, 2019, 08:46:47 PM »
On the other side of things, I really hope Trump does a scorched earth campaign against the federal employees who pushed this stuff.  I would love to see a smack down of elected officials also, but I think the most important part is setting an example of the federal employees who effectively participated in an attempted coup.  His order to declassify everything would be a good start.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Mueller is done
« Reply #139 on: May 29, 2019, 11:25:25 PM »
Remember, these people don't understand summaries. They thought Barr's summary should have been the entire, non-redacted document.

And yet they're perfectly happy with certain other "summaries": ["Some people did something"]
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Mueller is done
« Reply #140 on: May 30, 2019, 01:03:00 AM »
It appears that Mueller really is done -- or, at least, he wants to be:

https://www.newser.com/story/275811/muellers-2-years-of-silence-are-about-to-end.html

Quote
He also made clear that "any testimony from [our] office would not go beyond our report. ... We chose those words carefully and the work speaks for itself," and that he would not provide information beyond what has already been made public in any appearance before Congress: "Beyond what I've said here today and what is contained in my written report, I do not believe it is appropriate for me to speak further."

Here's the take-away for me: We have a legal system that says a person is considered to be innocent until proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be guilty. Them's the rules. Mueller said:

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He made clear that his office "concluded we would not reach a determination one way or the other about whether the president committed a crime,"

So, irrespective of whether or not Mueller's team had enough proof of Trump's innocence to come out and say so unequivocally, the fact is they also didn't have enough proof of guilt to say so. So, the way the system works, if a special prosecutor's team could not uncover enough evidence after two years of digging to say with any degree of certainty that they thought Trump was guilty ... then by the rules of our system Trump is innocent.
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freakazoid

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Re: Mueller is done
« Reply #141 on: May 30, 2019, 01:37:00 AM »
The article goes on about some of what the report said about the FBI and it ain't good.

WSJ Columnist: This Is What's Being Glossed Over In The Mueller Report On Russian Collusion
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2019/03/25/wsj-columnist-this-is-whats-being-glossed-over-in-the-mueller-report-on-russian-collusion-n2543660

This was in there

Quote
I never thought I’d see the day where Democrats are visibly upset that the President of The United States DIDN’T collude with the Russians.
    — Donald Trump Jr. (@DonaldJTrumpJr) March 25, 2019

How true.

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MikeB

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Re: Mueller is done
« Reply #142 on: May 30, 2019, 08:59:45 AM »
I guess the new norm is going to be convicting anyone who can't prove they didn't commit a crime. 

That is the Mueller, Weismann, Comey MO. Those three especially the first two have a history of questionable prosecutions/persecutions. Mueller should never have been appointed if any special counsel was even really warranted. He should definitely have been blocked from hiring Weismann.

Chester32141

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Re: Mueller is done
« Reply #143 on: May 30, 2019, 09:16:55 AM »
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/05/office-of-inspector-general-finds-top-fbi-official-illegally-leaked-to-media-including-sensitive-info-sealed-by-fed-courts-doj-declines-prosecution/

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Despite the fact that this senior FBI official, who was not named in the summary, clearly broke multiple laws, the Department of Justice declined to prosecute the individual.

What's the use of catching them if there are no consequences … :facepalm:
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makattak

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Re: Mueller is done
« Reply #144 on: May 30, 2019, 09:19:25 AM »
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/05/office-of-inspector-general-finds-top-fbi-official-illegally-leaked-to-media-including-sensitive-info-sealed-by-fed-courts-doj-declines-prosecution/

What's the use of catching them if there are no consequences … :facepalm:

So they can get a stern talking to and told that it was BAD. Maybe even told to think about what they did.
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Scout26

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Re: Mueller is done
« Reply #145 on: May 30, 2019, 09:36:01 AM »
Could someone tell me what law(s) Trump is accused of breaking (other than "Didn't let Hillary win".)   My understanding is that if there is NO crime (i.e. collusion) there there can't be any obstruction of justice.   Maybe some of our resident tile-crawlers can explain to this rube from flyover country what I'm missing.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 10:31:48 AM by Amy Schumer »
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Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
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Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
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for the motherland.

DittoHead

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Re: Mueller is done
« Reply #146 on: May 30, 2019, 09:36:35 AM »
So, irrespective of whether or not Mueller's team had enough proof of Trump's innocence to come out and say so unequivocally, the fact is they also didn't have enough proof of guilt to say so. So, the way the system works, if a special prosecutor's team could not uncover enough evidence after two years of digging to say with any degree of certainty that they thought Trump was guilty ... then by the rules of our system Trump is innocent.

I'm not sure that interpretation is correct. I think Andrew McCarthy is correct (as usual) in his analysis.
What matters is that Mueller can be fairly understood to be saying he believed President Trump committed obstruction of justice. That is not the only possible interpretation, but it is the most likely interpretation.

Mueller said Wednesday that if he had concluded there was insufficient evidence to charge Trump with obstruction, he would have said so (as he did with collusion). He then emphasized that he did not say so. That strongly implies that he believes the evidence is sufficient (notwithstanding that the attorney general has found otherwise). Mueller added that, in deciding not to allege obstruction even though the evidence was arguably sufficient to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, he relied on the OLC guidance. Finally, he deduced from this, and from his understanding of the Constitution, that in our system it is for Congress, not federal prosecutors, to deal with presidential misconduct.

Now, as I said, this is not the only conceivable interpretation. We could conservatively construe Mueller as saying that, because the OLC guidance prevents a sitting president from being indicted, he decided not to think about whether there was sufficient evidence to charge obstruction. But this is unlikely.
...
A much more straightforward interpretation is that Mueller believes there is enough evidence to indict, he decided he could not do so under the guidance, and he intentionally left the matter for Congress to resolve — with the advice that felonies may have been committed.
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MechAg94

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Re: Mueller is done
« Reply #147 on: May 30, 2019, 11:38:49 AM »
Could someone tell me what law(s) Trump is accused of breaking (other than "Didn't let Hillary win".)   My understanding is that if there is NO crime (i.e. collusion) there there can't be any obstruction of justice.   Maybe some of our resident tile-crawlers can explain to this rube from flyover country what I'm missing.
My understanding from the Mueller report is they found no evidence of this collusion stuff.  They had no direct evidence of obstruction either, but they are trying to say that Trump's statements and tweets about ending the investigation and firing Mueller amount to some form of obstruction even though President Trump never actually did anything.  The tile crawling lawyers are doing their best to twist things to make it seem like there was obstruction.  Apparently the lack of an actual crime is important, but the relevant law has a clause that could maybe be interpreted by an aggressive prosecutor to say there doesn't need to be a crime if you cross your eyes hard enough.  I heard the intent of the people who drafted that law was that a crime was necessary.
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WLJ

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Re: Mueller is done
« Reply #148 on: May 30, 2019, 11:40:54 AM »
Coming soon to an impeachment near you

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Hawkmoon

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Re: Mueller is done
« Reply #149 on: May 30, 2019, 01:10:54 PM »
I'm not sure that interpretation is correct. I think Andrew McCarthy is correct (as usual) in his analysis.

It's difficult to support a conclusion that Mueller was certain Trump had committed a crime when Mueller said this:

Quote
He made clear that his office "concluded we would not reach a determination one way or the other about whether the president committed a crime,"

That doesn't say definitively that Trump is innocent, but it very clearly does say that the entire Miueller team could not agree that Trump had committed a crime ... any crime.
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