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Author Topic: That's a big oops!  (Read 3776 times)

RoadKingLarry

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Re: That's a big oops!
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2019, 10:01:57 AM »

Dewatering is a very important part of fighting a shipboard fire. We had a carrier that had a fire on the O3 level (right below the flight deck) and the amount of water put about a 7-8 degree list on the boat at the pier. There was some concern it may have tried to lay over if it went much further.


bob

Do tell  [popcorn]

 =D
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

230RN

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Re: That's a big oops!
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2019, 10:16:32 AM »

Do tell  [popcorn]

 =D

I've already mentioned the Normandie.
There is no proof without evidence.
There is no evidence without investigation.
There is no investigation without suspicion.
Suspicion without proof is paranoid.

All nicely wrapped up, right?

Andiron

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Re: That's a big oops!
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2019, 10:02:44 PM »

Dewatering is a very important part of fighting a shipboard fire. We had a carrier that had a fire on the O3 level (right below the flight deck) and the amount of water put about a 7-8 degree list on the boat at the pier. There was some concern it may have tried to lay over if it went much further.


bob

Stupid question,  as a guy who only rode around on boats (My ass Rides In Navy Equipment),  do they not have automatic bilge pumps to accommodate that?  Apples to oranges,  but I recall fishing with my dad and his boat had a little port thing that would occasional shoot water out that got in through a slow leak on the outdrive.  I'd have assumed they'd just have a scaled up version of that on larger ships.
"Leftism destroys everything good." -  Ron


Iím not blinded by hate. I hate because Iím not blind

BobR

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Re: That's a big oops!
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2019, 10:38:10 PM »

Do tell  [popcorn]

 =D

USS Forrestal at Pier 12 in Norfolk. 3 days before leaving on a Med deployment, 10 July 1972. A *expletive deleted*bag Seaman on the Admirals staff set 3 fires, one below decks forward, one below decks aft and then one on the O3 level, in the Admirals cabin close to CIC. By the time the fire party was able to get to the O3 level the fire had gotten into the overhead cable runs and moved fore and aft. We fought the fire for about 12 hours, had to cut holes in the flight deck to stick nozzles through so we could pump water on it. OBAs quitting too soon, hoses failing, it was a cluster. There were no drainage holes between the knee knockers on the O3 level (they are standard now) so all of the water we were pumping in there stayed there. We took on a list, had tugs beside us to pull us out in the bay because the fire was getting very close to the magazines on the O3 level. GQ was called away about 0330 and because my GQ station was aft in hanger bay 3 I got to go forward and join the DC parties fighting the fire on the O3 level. That fire put us back in the yards for 3 months, all of our gear in CIC had to be replaced and when we came out of the yards we finished our deployment and did the next one. In all we did a little over 10 months on a Med deployment.

bob

eta: They pulled the brows about 0800, if you were on board you were a firefighter, if not you stayed on the pier and watched.

BobR

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Re: That's a big oops!
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2019, 10:46:11 PM »

Stupid question,  as a guy who only rode around on boats (My ass Rides In Navy Equipment),  do they not have automatic bilge pumps to accommodate that?  Apples to oranges,  but I recall fishing with my dad and his boat had a little port thing that would occasional shoot water out that got in through a slow leak on the outdrive.  I'd have assumed they'd just have a scaled up version of that on larger ships.

The big boats have big pumps but where this water was the only to get it out was for it to overflow the knee knockers and find a way down a ladder.

Knee knockers, actually more of mid shin destroyers but they are called knee knockers.



bob

eta: IIRC after our fire every carrier had drains cut into the deck near one of the corners because the deck was the overhead of the hanger bay. That way it would drain to the hanger bay and over the side.

dogmush

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Re: That's a big oops!
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2019, 12:23:41 AM »

Stupid question,  as a guy who only rode around on boats (My ass Rides In Navy Equipment),  do they not have automatic bilge pumps to accommodate that?  Apples to oranges,  but I recall fishing with my dad and his boat had a little port thing that would occasional shoot water out that got in through a slow leak on the outdrive.  I'd have assumed they'd just have a scaled up version of that on larger ships.

There are pumps, but they aren't automatic.

Also unlike many civilian (and military non-US Navy) ships don't have very big crews so someone has to remember to turn them on, while doing all the other fire stuff.

On my boat, I have had a big note written on the top of my Damage Control board that said "DEWATER- T+5:00" to remind me and my first mate to call the engine room and start that process.  That came from a Fire Drill  After Action Review when the whole team realized that we had been pumping water into the hull for a notional 25 min to fight the fire.

Also, bilge pumps don't work if you loose generator power.

HeroHog

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Re: That's a big oops!
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2019, 12:58:39 AM »

In 76, when I was in USN Boot Camp, ALL were taught Damage Control/Fire Fighting. You worked fire hose, shoring timbers and hull patches, Light Water, dry chemical and CO2 extinguishers, the works. While there may have been a fire team on board the bigger ships, EVERYONE was supposed to be able to do Damage Control in an emergency. My job during GQ or during Sea Duty was to be a Sound Powered Phone talker and to relay engine room status/messages to the bridge.
I might not last very long or be very effective but I'll be a real pain in the ass for a minute!
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kgbsquirrel

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Re: That's a big oops!
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2019, 02:25:39 AM »

Repair 2A SCBA monkey.
DIET #2 nozzleman.
Main Battledress stretcher bearer.

Good times.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: That's a big oops!
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2019, 05:45:22 AM »

On subs every soul is a firefighter every soul is a damage control expert..
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

WLJ

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Re: That's a big oops!
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2019, 11:21:26 AM »

On a related note, Drachinifel put up a video on the USS Franklin fire


USS Franklin (CV-13) - What to do when everything is on fire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tJh-XkVyYA
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Jamisjockey

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Re: That's a big oops!
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2019, 11:36:21 AM »

It's just that one side has a high reliance on the numbers, which is OK as far as it goes, and the other side has a high reliance on what looks right, which is also OK as far as it goes.

The latter side also realizes that "$ooner or later, $omeone's going to pu$h the limit$."

The "$omeone" doesn't have to be the engineer.

So, since apparently irreconcilable differences in outlook exist, there was no point in going further with this.  

OK?

Terry, 230RN

 ;/ ;/ ;/
JD

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Andiron

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Re: That's a big oops!
« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2019, 09:02:02 PM »

Thanks Dogmush and BobR for the explanation.
"Leftism destroys everything good." -  Ron


Iím not blinded by hate. I hate because Iím not blind

Andiron

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Re: That's a big oops!
« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2019, 09:05:04 PM »

;/ ;/ ;/

Yeah,  there's a time where one should just take the "L" with grace.
"Leftism destroys everything good." -  Ron


Iím not blinded by hate. I hate because Iím not blind

kgbsquirrel

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Re: That's a big oops!
« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2019, 09:09:25 PM »

On a related note, Drachinifel put up a video on the USS Franklin fire


USS Franklin (CV-13) - What to do when everything is on fire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tJh-XkVyYA

Thank you, that was an hour well spent.  =)

230RN

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Re: That's a big oops!
« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2019, 09:37:28 PM »

I'll take the "L" expecially since apparently the dynamic stabilization systems are not part of the initial stabilization calculations as I had expected, but the darned things still tip over.  So something, somewhere, is not being considered or is mistaken.

So, in light of the greater wisdom of the APS community, I apologize for expressing my concern over ship stabilization based on the idea that "if it don't look safe, it ain't safe."

That was apparently wrong in terms of the engineering calculations, but apparently some people (not necessarily the engineers or designers) do push the loading too far every once in a while.

So, gentlemen, forgive me.

Terry, 230RN

There is no proof without evidence.
There is no evidence without investigation.
There is no investigation without suspicion.
Suspicion without proof is paranoid.

All nicely wrapped up, right?

Jamisjockey

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Re: That's a big oops!
« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2019, 09:20:13 AM »

I'll take the "L" expecially since apparently the dynamic stabilization systems are not part of the initial stabilization calculations as I had expected, but the darned things still tip over.  So something, somewhere, is not being considered or is mistaken.

So, in light of the greater wisdom of the APS community, I apologize for expressing my concern over ship stabilization based on the idea that "if it don't look safe, it ain't safe."

That was apparently wrong in terms of the engineering calculations, but apparently some people (not necessarily the engineers or designers) do push the loading too far every once in a while.

So, gentlemen, forgive me.

Terry, 230RN



Because nobody would ever push anything past it's design limitations..... ;/

Driving to the grocery store is inherently safe.  It's all the jackoffs around you pushing their vehicles past their design limitations that make it dangerous....
JD

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cordex

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Re: That's a big oops!
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2019, 11:48:39 PM »

If anyone cares she is still there.

Hawkmoon

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Re: That's a big oops!
« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2019, 12:05:59 AM »

If anyone cares she is still there.

I'm sure the harbormaster is VERY happy.
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