Author Topic: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread  (Read 446627 times)

K Frame

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5025 on: March 15, 2021, 07:09:01 AM »
Ireland and the Netherlands have just suspended the use of the Astra Zeneca vaccine over concerns about possible blood clots.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/15/covid-ireland-netherlands-suspend-astrazeneca-vaccine-amid-blood-clot-fears.html
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bedlamite

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5026 on: March 15, 2021, 08:54:39 AM »
Ireland and the Netherlands have just suspended the use of the Astra Zeneca vaccine over concerns about possible blood clots.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/15/covid-ireland-netherlands-suspend-astrazeneca-vaccine-amid-blood-clot-fears.html

Along with Italy, Austria, Norway, Iceland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg and Denmark.
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MillCreek

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5027 on: March 17, 2021, 06:16:51 PM »
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/03/scicheck-haglers-widow-rebuts-rumors-about-how-he-died/

Sounds like Mr. Hagler died of a cardiac or pulmonary event.
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MillCreek

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5028 on: March 18, 2021, 11:54:43 AM »
https://www.wsj.com/articles/who-china-hunt-covid-origins-11616004512?mod=itp_wsj&ru=yahoo

If you can get past the paywall or find the article via other means, this is a very interesting WSJ investigation showing the restrictions on the WHO investigation into the origins of the COVID virus.  The PRC has worked very hard to suppress an independent and unbiased investigation.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

TechMan

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5029 on: March 19, 2021, 09:24:31 AM »
I finished listening to this book: https://www.amazon.com/Great-Influenza-Deadliest-Pandemic-History/dp/0143036491.  It is a very interesting read.
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230RN

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5030 on: March 20, 2021, 03:05:51 PM »
Got my second (Pfizer) shot today.  No lines, no triage like my first one.  Just walked in, gave them my ritual "No, no, no" on the coughing etc questions, showed my card from the first one, was ushered in to the shooting range, got shot, waited the fifteen minutes to see if I was DRT or not, and off I went.  Recap: zero reactions to the first shot.

Big error:  Since it was so quick I decided to go shopping for a few things.  I forgot what shopping on a Saturday was like.  AAAAACCCKKK!

Terry, 230RN

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K Frame

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5031 on: March 21, 2021, 09:14:36 AM »
So, heard a wonderful little tale from one of my coworkers the other day.

Our customer, government entity, issued us letters stating that, because of the work that we do we should be classified as 1b, essential for national security, and to bump us to that group.

So, one of my coworkers took his letter to Andrews Air Force base. Waited an hour in line, only to be rejected when he showed the letter.

Why? Because the .gov staff giving the shots at Andrews said that the letter was not personalized to the holder and, because of that, it would not be accepted. My coworker said while he was there about 60 people were booted out of line because they had the same letter.

I love .gov. What a bunch of f*expletive deleted*tards.
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ConstitutionCowboy

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5032 on: March 21, 2021, 12:07:16 PM »
Food for thought ...

If you get the Covid, develop symptoms and stay home, are helping the herd achieve immunity? Someone gave it to you and maybe staying home will deprive someone else of getting it and you're therefore not passing on the opportunity to achieve natures best immunity. We've been designed to work that way, though not all diseases will be cured by a person's own immune system. Even polio can be cured by one's own immune system but not the damage it can create or cause in some people.

Certain diseases such as syphilis and tuberculosis aren't handled well with a person's immune system but those diseases are curable with the proper drugs. Viruses rely completely on a person's immune system. Vaccines only boost or 'train' a person's immune system for a particular virus, they will not prevent you from acquiring it. You're just more able to defeat it. While I'm still strong and healthy, I'll rely on natures way to defeat viruses.

Here is another thought to consider: If I have the disease and remain symptom free, doesn't that mean my immune system is doing its job and any viruses I might expel are weekend or dead and might aid someone else's immune system develop/build up their immune system's resistance just like a vaccine?

Woody
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zxcvbob

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5033 on: March 21, 2021, 12:18:48 PM »
Food for thought ...

If you get the Covid, develop symptoms and stay home, are helping the herd achieve immunity? Someone gave it to you and maybe staying home will deprive someone else of getting it and you're therefore not passing on the opportunity to achieve natures best immunity. We've been designed to work that way, though not all diseases will be cured by a person's own immune system. Even polio can be cured by one's own immune system but not the damage it can create or cause in some people.

Certain diseases such as syphilis and tuberculosis aren't handled well with a person's immune system but those diseases are curable with the proper drugs. Viruses rely completely on a person's immune system. Vaccines only boost or 'train' a person's immune system for a particular virus, they will not prevent you from acquiring it. You're just more able to defeat it. While I'm still strong and healthy, I'll rely on natures way to defeat viruses.

Here is another thought to consider: If I have the disease and remain symptom free, doesn't that mean my immune system is doing its job and any viruses I might expel are weekend or dead and might aid someone else's immune system develop/build up their immune system's resistance just like a vaccine?

Woody

If you catch the disease and get over it, you have some immunity; don't know how much. Probably as much or more than if you got the vaccine.  The scientific community can't seem to make up its mind about whether people without symptoms can spread the disease.  Theoretically it is not only possible but likely.  But there's little or no evidence -- at least that I've seen.  This disease has been so politicized all the data is suspect.   You're probably shedding virus, but maybe not enough to infect someone unless they are extremely susceptible (like someone with an active AIDS infection)

Herd immunity means when someone does get the disease the virus can't find enough non-immune people to jump to to keep spreading, and it dies-out.
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De Selby

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5034 on: March 21, 2021, 08:10:26 PM »
Spreading pestilence and disease is not “natural medicine.”  That’s just making people sick.

I cannot begin to comprehend how the spectrum of American values has grown to include the proposition that making people sick with a really nasty virus might be a public service, akin to natural immunisation.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

cordex

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5035 on: March 21, 2021, 08:55:18 PM »
Spreading pestilence and disease is not “natural medicine.”  That’s just making people sick.

I cannot begin to comprehend how the spectrum of American values has grown to include the proposition that making people sick with a really nasty virus might be a public service, akin to natural immunisation.
I don’t agree with intentional infection, but for most people it is not a particularly nasty virus.

De Selby

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5036 on: March 21, 2021, 09:43:00 PM »
I don’t agree with intentional infection, but for most people it is not a particularly nasty virus.

Would you use a firearm that had a failure rate of one percent causing death, and up to 10 percent injuries causing hospitalisation?

The numbers of deaths and and cases of serious illness, including long term chronic health problems, are nasty. Those numbers both get downplayed and puffed up for political reasons, but on the best evidence available no sane person should be casual about catching or spreading it.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

kgbsquirrel

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5037 on: March 21, 2021, 11:14:15 PM »
Would you use a firearm that had a failure rate of one percent causing death, and up to 10 percent injuries causing hospitalisation?

The numbers of deaths and and cases of serious illness, including long term chronic health problems, are nasty. Those numbers both get downplayed and puffed up for political reasons, but on the best evidence available no sane person should be casual about catching or spreading it.

It is not smallpox.  It does not have a 1% mortality.  It is not sane to treat it like that.

De Selby

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5038 on: March 21, 2021, 11:49:32 PM »
It is not smallpox.  It does not have a 1% mortality.  It is not sane to treat it like that.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

It isn’t smallpox, but it’s also not the flu. And mortality ranges above 1 percent.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Perd Hapley

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5039 on: March 22, 2021, 12:08:32 AM »
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I cannot begin to comprehend how the spectrum of American values has grown to include the proposition that making people sick with a really nasty virus might be a public service, akin to natural immunisation.

  :rofl:

If reviving the measles party is your signal there might be something wrong with Americans' moral code, I think you missed a few things. The past two months, for example.
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zahc

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5040 on: March 22, 2021, 12:22:44 AM »
Regardless of the severity of the disease, it may be impossible to stop. It might just have to work it's course into the human population. That's what happened with the 1918 flu and now that flu is not dangerous anymore. Sucks for all the people that died yeah.

All the covid cowerers are banking on vaccines. Vaccines can work. But we don't know how well; all indications, to me, are that we will be lucky if the vaccine works as well as the annual flu vaccine. Note, we have not eradicated the flu via vaccination; I see no reason to expect we will conquer covid that way.

We also cannot put the world on hold every year so we can genetically sequence every strain just so we can "stop" it. That's doing damage comparable to the disease itself; cure worse than disease. Eventually someone will come up with a globally optimized response solution. Probably something like "stay home if you are sick, wash your hands frequently, avoid large gatherings, get vaccinated, especially if you have a risk factor". Then sit back and watch people die by the thousands, yes, just like the seasonall flu every year, because life sucks and viruses exist and people often die from them. You know, exactly how we managed viruses up until a year or so ago.

I'm not saying covid is not bad. It's pretty nasty. I'm just saying it doesn't look like there's much we can practically do about it, and the current response is equal parts information crisis and spiritual crisis, and not sound epidemiology.
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kgbsquirrel

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5041 on: March 22, 2021, 12:24:38 AM »
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

It isn’t smallpox, but it’s also not the flu. And mortality ranges above 1 percent.

If mortality was above 1% we would have millions dead, not thousands.  It is the equivalent to a bad flu and pneumonia year.

De Selby

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5042 on: March 22, 2021, 02:57:51 AM »
If mortality was above 1% we would have millions dead, not thousands.  It is the equivalent to a bad flu and pneumonia year.

Do you have data about case fatality that Johns Hopkins doesn’t? Would be interested to see how you concluded their data is wrong.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

De Selby

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5043 on: March 22, 2021, 02:58:46 AM »
  :rofl:

If reviving the measles party is your signal there might be something wrong with Americans' moral code, I think you missed a few things. The past two months, for example.

Would you send your children to a measles party if it killed upwards of 1 in 100, and maimed ten times that?
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

De Selby

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5044 on: March 22, 2021, 03:01:43 AM »
Regardless of the severity of the disease, it may be impossible to stop. It might just have to work it's course into the human population. That's what happened with the 1918 flu and now that flu is not dangerous anymore. Sucks for all the people that died yeah.

All the covid cowerers are banking on vaccines. Vaccines can work. But we don't know how well; all indications, to me, are that we will be lucky if the vaccine works as well as the annual flu vaccine. Note, we have not eradicated the flu via vaccination; I see no reason to expect we will conquer covid that way.

We also cannot put the world on hold every year so we can genetically sequence every strain just so we can "stop" it. That's doing damage comparable to the disease itself; cure worse than disease. Eventually someone will come up with a globally optimized response solution. Probably something like "stay home if you are sick, wash your hands frequently, avoid large gatherings, get vaccinated, especially if you have a risk factor". Then sit back and watch people die by the thousands, yes, just like the seasonall flu every year, because life sucks and viruses exist and people often die from them. You know, exactly how we managed viruses up until a year or so ago.

I'm not saying covid is not bad. It's pretty nasty. I'm just saying it doesn't look like there's much we can practically do about it, and the current response is equal parts information crisis and spiritual crisis, and not sound epidemiology.

And yet, some countries have completely eliminated covid and the best evidence about vaccines is that they’re capable of developing herd immunity if vaccination rates are high enough.

The resignation on this virus is bizarre. It seems like only in America can nothing be done, when significant parts of the rest of the world are controlling the spread and rolling out vaccines that will end it.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

cordex

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5045 on: March 22, 2021, 04:34:06 AM »
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

It isn’t smallpox, but it’s also not the flu. And mortality ranges above 1 percent.
Do you believe that observed case fatality rate and mortality rate are the same thing?

Using the blanket formula of deaths/detected cases also presumes that everyone has the exact same risk. What is the observed CFR (again, not the same thing as an overall IFR) for people in various age groups?

The CDC current best guess ranges from an IFR of 0.002% for the 17 and younger cohort to 9% in the over 65 cohort. If observed CFR is any guide, the over 65 cohort is heavily skewed by the over 85s, but the CDC doesn’t break it down further.

As far as long term health impacts, yes, that may be a potential concern but the degree of that concern is still a big question. There are long term health impacts from most diseases, including very common ones.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html#

De Selby

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5046 on: March 22, 2021, 06:32:43 AM »
Do you believe that observed case fatality rate and mortality rate are the same thing?

Using the blanket formula of deaths/detected cases also presumes that everyone has the exact same risk. What is the observed CFR (again, not the same thing as an overall IFR) for people in various age groups?

The CDC current best guess ranges from an IFR of 0.002% for the 17 and younger cohort to 9% in the over 65 cohort. If observed CFR is any guide, the over 65 cohort is heavily skewed by the over 85s, but the CDC doesn’t break it down further.

As far as long term health impacts, yes, that may be a potential concern but the degree of that concern is still a big question. There are long term health impacts from most diseases, including very common ones.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html#

Okay, so you’re not disputing it kills over 1 percent - it’s just that because the 16.5 percent of the population 65 or over is hit much harder than younger years, you reckon it’s less of a problem. Again, doesn’t seem sane to compare it to the flu.

Then there’s that whole thing of it being possible to contain and eradicate covid transmission, which would handle the deaths and the long term medical consequences.

"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

kgbsquirrel

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5047 on: March 22, 2021, 06:36:37 AM »
Do you have data about case fatality that Johns Hopkins doesn’t? Would be interested to see how you concluded their data is wrong.

The lack of bodies being burned en masse and my own damn brain conclude we are no where near a 1% mortality figure.  Go appeal-to-authority on somebody else's leg.

Ron

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5048 on: March 22, 2021, 07:42:44 AM »
The numbers are universally inflated.

They are "lying to us for our own good" doesn't work on me.
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zxcvbob

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5049 on: March 22, 2021, 08:46:58 AM »
Would you send your children to a measles party if it killed upwards of 1 in 100, and maimed ten times that?


Were measles parties really a thing?  I don't think so; I believe that was chicken pox.
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