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Author Topic: Jogger shot in Georgia  (Read 8385 times)

T.O.M.

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Jogger shot in Georgia
« on: May 07, 2020, 07:34:12 AM »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/5174327002

Black male out jogging during daylight hours.  Two white males see him, call police to report that they see a suspect in recent break ins running... "hauling ass"...through the neighborhood.  White males arm up (shotgun and .357 revolver), and pursue runner in their truck.   Get in front of runner, then confront him.  Fight ensues.  Runner is shot and killed.

When I first heard of this, it was in relation to the first prosecutor on the case stating that the shooting was justified under Georgia citizen arrest laws.  I've also read that some legal expert said the shooting was justified because the runner, when confronted, attacked one of the men, making it self defense/defense of others.  I've seen the video now.  Seems clear to me that the runner was actually running for exercise, based on dress and behavior (consistent pace, following roadway, etc.)

I'm a jogger.  I run through neighborhoods all the time.  I have had crazy things happen...been confronted by people, accused of doing things.  As often as not, I try to just keep on jogging.  If I was 25, and I was confronted by a male (not an LEO) with a long gun, I might just try and struggle for control of that gun. 

This one seems bad for the shooter to me.  Thoughts?
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Ron

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2020, 08:09:05 AM »

Is it ever a good to idea to go out looking for an opportunity exercise vigilante justice or play law enforcement officer?

 
The wish not to believe can influence as strongly as the wish to believe.

Who can escape their own cognitive biases?

Ben

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2020, 08:15:34 AM »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/5174327002

  Seems clear to me that the runner was actually running for exercise, based on dress and behavior (consistent pace, following roadway, etc.)


This one seems bad for the shooter to me.  Thoughts?


Watching the video yesterday, I came to the same conclusion.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

MechAg94

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2020, 09:12:25 AM »

Is it ever a good to idea to go out looking for an opportunity exercise vigilante justice or play law enforcement officer?

 
Not really.  Even less so when people are taking video of it.  Even if they just confronted and held the guy, it opens up liability concerns. 
If he was just jogging at a consistent pace, they could have called police. 

“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

makattak

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2020, 09:15:40 AM »

The video really doesn't look good for the two shooters.

They would have been justified to ASK him to stop, or to follow at a distance until police arrived, but I saw no evidence they had a reason to attempt to stop him. (By getting, armed, out of the vehicle.)

The jogger could very easily have seen that as a threat to his life. (And, I would argue, DID.)

Reading more about the case, I'm betting the fact that the two shooters were white had much less to do with the lack of charges than the fact that the shooter was a former police officer.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

MechAg94

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2020, 09:18:28 AM »

The other part I was thinking:  if your mind is zoned in on an activity and someone comes up and starts yelling at you, it may take a few seconds to register what they are saying.  Seeing a gun is not going to help that.

I hadn't heard about the case, but came across the video yesterday.  I find it hard to believe it was ruled as justified, but if they didn't have the video, maybe they believed whatever story was told.  I get the impression the guys with the guns thought things through less than the jogger did.  
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MechAg94

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2020, 09:24:04 AM »

The video really doesn't look good for the two shooters.

They would have been justified to ASK him to stop, or to follow at a distance until police arrived, but I saw no evidence they had a reason to attempt to stop him. (By getting, armed, out of the vehicle.)

The jogger could very easily have seen that as a threat to his life. (And, I would argue, DID.)

Reading more about the case, I'm betting the fact that the two shooters were white had much less to do with the lack of charges than the fact that the shooter was a former police officer.
True.  That is going to mean more to local police and prosecutors than his skin color.  I was wondering why they were pulling out citizens arrest stuff to justify the shooting.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

WLJ

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2020, 09:36:38 AM »

Quote
“We’re literally hunted EVERYDAY/EVERYTIME we step foot outside the comfort of our homes! Can’t even go for a damn jog man! Like WTF man are you kidding me?!?!?!?!?!? No man fr [for real] ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!!! I’m sorry Ahmaud(Rest In Paradise) and my prayers and blessings sent to the heavens above to your family!”
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/lebron-james-ahmaud-arbery-shooting-death

Not to trivialize the apparently avoidable tragedy that occured here but where was Lebron while thousands of blacks were being murdered by other blacks in the months before this happened? I seem to recall hearing nothing but crickets coming from his multi million dollar gated mansion. Brace yourselves for more of this from celebrities, the MSM, libs, and the race baiters, cherry picking murders for political gain. This could be worst than the Martin/Zimmerman case in the noise that's going to be generated. Combine this with the race baiting that's been going on with this C19 business and it's going to be long summer.

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dogmush

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2020, 09:55:11 AM »

I haven't done a lot of research on this, as it just hit my RADAR, but I tend to agree that this doesn't look good for the two shooters.

It also doesn't look good for the law enforcement agencies that spent two months looking really hard to find reasons to justify the shooting by someone they've worked with in the past.

Quote from: New York Times
Gregory McMichael is a former Glynn County police officer and a former investigator with the local district attorney’s office who retired last May.

https://www.nytimes.com/article/ahmaud-arbery-shooting-georgia.html

WLJ

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2020, 10:00:15 AM »

I haven't done a lot of research on this, as it just hit my RADAR, but I tend to agree that this doesn't look good for the two shooters.

It also doesn't look good for the law enforcement agencies that spent two months looking really hard to find reasons to justify the shooting by someone they've worked with in the past.

https://www.nytimes.com/article/ahmaud-arbery-shooting-georgia.html

Paywall
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dogmush

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2020, 10:02:44 AM »

Paywall

not for me.  You can rest assured I have never given the New York Times a dime.

I clicked the link in an opinion piece back to that story.  Opinon piece here: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/opinion/ahmaud-arbery-killing.html

Perd Hapley

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2020, 10:06:01 AM »

I can't wait to be told how brave and wise the Black Lives Matter demonstrators/rioters are to defy the white man's lock-down orders.
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Jocassee

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2020, 10:07:03 AM »

It looks bad, but it might just be another hunt for the Great White Defendant.

Waiting to see what shows up, nobody's paying for my opinion anyways.
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WLJ

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2020, 10:12:03 AM »

not for me.  You can rest assured I have never given the New York Times a dime.

I clicked the link in an opinion piece back to that story.  Opinon piece here: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/opinion/ahmaud-arbery-killing.html

Paywall again

It just sunk into my thick skull that this happened over two months ago. Yeah, the optics don't look good at all on this on the surface for the shooter and the police dept unless there's something we're not being  told/shown.
“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”
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Ben

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2020, 10:12:19 AM »

I will add that my opinion is only based on the video. I hadn't even heard of this until the video. There could certainly be missing information. When the Covington video came out, I was a kid hater too for about half a day until the rest of the info started flowing.

Still, even with more info in favor of the shooters, it's hard to get past this video.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

MechAg94

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2020, 11:09:46 AM »

I will add that my opinion is only based on the video. I hadn't even heard of this until the video. There could certainly be missing information. When the Covington video came out, I was a kid hater too for about half a day until the rest of the info started flowing.

Still, even with more info in favor of the shooters, it's hard to get past this video.
Agreed.  It is hard to justify self defense or citizens arrest when you drive up on someone and jump out waving shotguns around. 
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charby

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just Warren

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2020, 03:14:06 PM »

Is it ever a good to idea to go out looking for an opportunity exercise vigilante justice or play law enforcement officer?

 

Nope. It's not your job to enforce handicap spaces laws, decibel levels laws, chase down graffiti vandals, confront trash-dumpers, or confront joggers.

You are not the cops. Call the actual cops.

But if you're a former cop you probably still think like a cop. With that "go get 'em" attitude. Which led to this death.

---------------
Now if I can bring up Trayvon, that incident is different in that Zimmerman never directly confronted him. Just followed and reported and got ambushed and assaulted which led to a valid self-defense claim.
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T.O.M.

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2020, 08:46:09 PM »

Just got a news update on my phone.  Father and son shooters arrested and charged with murder.
No, I'm not mtnbkr.  ;)

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2020, 09:17:57 PM »

Just got a news update on my phone.  Father and son shooters arrested and charged with murder.

Has Georgia hate crime statutes? Will the Feds charge them with such?
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Andiron

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2020, 09:42:23 PM »

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/lebron-james-ahmaud-arbery-shooting-death

Not to trivialize the apparently avoidable tragedy that occured here but where was Lebron while thousands of blacks were being murdered by other blacks in the months before this happened? I seem to recall hearing nothing but crickets coming from his multi million dollar gated mansion. Brace yourselves for more of this from celebrities, the MSM, libs, and the race baiters, cherry picking murders for political gain. This could be worst than the Martin/Zimmerman case in the noise that's going to be generated. Combine this with the race baiting that's been going on with this C19 business and it's going to be long summer.



Ha,  that's just Thursday for those aholes.  nothing special.
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De Selby

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2020, 11:11:17 PM »

Nope. It's not your job to enforce handicap spaces laws, decibel levels laws, chase down graffiti vandals, confront trash-dumpers, or confront joggers.

You are not the cops. Call the actual cops.

But if you're a former cop you probably still think like a cop. With that "go get 'em" attitude. Which led to this death.

---------------
Now if I can bring up Trayvon, that incident is different in that Zimmerman never directly confronted him. Just followed and reported and got ambushed and assaulted which led to a valid self-defense claim.

The key difference between the Zimmerman case and this is that there is a video.  Killing the only other witness leaves one in a stronger position to make claims about who started what.
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makattak

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2020, 08:20:37 AM »

The key difference between the Zimmerman case and this is that there is a video.  Killing the only other witness leaves one in a stronger position to make claims about who started what.

Also it was daylight. And running around a neighborhood in daylight isn't suspicious, unlike a dark and rainy night.

Also, it was two against one. (Disparity of force.) And both were visibly armed.

Also, this likely WAS a case of good 'ol boys saying "Greg's a good guy, I'm sure he knew what he was doing. Shame about that jogger, he should have just complied!"

Also, they clearly admitted they tried to detain him, unlike Zimmerman, who only did it in the fevered imaginations of people who want to claim the Hispanic that had already fought against the law in a racial disparity case was actually racist.

Other than that, it's EXACTLY like Zimmerman.

But, I'm sure the mastermind George Zimmerman just made up a story on the spot that fit all the available evidence. Oh, and was smart enough to know the cops were bluffing when they claimed they had video, so he could pretend to be relieved.

But, yeah, this is just like Zimmerman.

Here's an idea: we all agree this is a bad shoot. Even without the video it sounds hinky. Why not take the win rather than trying to re-litigate the Zimmerman battle where you lost?



I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

makattak

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2020, 08:26:08 AM »

The key difference in the cases is that in both instances, the activists were sure that no charges were filed because a white guy killed a black guy and white police officers (which is all of them, because once a "Person of Color" becomes a police officer, he's automatically white) don't charge white people because white people look out for their own kind.*

IN THIS CASE, they're still wrong, because police don't care about "white people." They DO however, look after their own, but "their own" are other members of the police.

So the activists STILL have the mechanism wrong, but are correct in what went on. It's one of those weird situations where they are wrong on the motivations, but correct on the outcome. (It's like a math problem where you do all the operations wrong, but amazingly still come out with the right number.)


*They are so tied to this narrative that they had to invent "White Hispanic" to keep Zimmerman in the "White" category.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Perd Hapley

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2020, 09:27:42 AM »


*They are so tied to this narrative that they had to invent "White Hispanic" to keep Zimmerman in the "White" category.

No, they did not invent "white Hispanic." Hispanics have always come in various colors.

It is, though, rather obvious they only identified him as white because they knew they could use "white" as the pejorative term it has become.
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