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Author Topic: Jogger shot in Georgia  (Read 8489 times)

Jamisjockey

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #50 on: May 10, 2020, 11:19:58 AM »

This should be a reminder, no matter the outcome, that chasing down a person suspected of a crime will not play out well for you.
The court of public opinion will weigh in and hang you before you have the opportunity to be proven right or wrong.
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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #51 on: May 10, 2020, 11:27:24 AM »

Fact remains that no matter what Arbery was or wasn't up to you shouldn't go confronting people in a pickup with a shotgun.
But I will say this, many police departments have publicly stated that they will not response to many what they deem to be non emergency calls during this C19 mess basically saying you're on your own. Combine this with judges releasing criminals apparnelly including many violent ones and these are not normal times. Not justifying the shooting just wondering if this contributed to the shooting.

But, since this occurred in Feb I'm not sure if what  I said above is relevant except for the first line.
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WLJ

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #52 on: May 10, 2020, 11:39:58 AM »

It's all Orange Man's fault

Quote
Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms compared the shooting death of 25-year-old Ahmaud Arbery in February to lynchings in the Jim Crow-era South and said that President Trump’s rhetoric give racists “permission to do it in an overt way.”
Atlanta mayor calls Ahmaud Arbery killing 'a lynching'; says Trump's rhetoric gives racists permission
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/atlanta-mayor-calls-ahmaud-arbery-killing-a-lynching-says-trumps-rhetoric-gives-racists-permission
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WLJ

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #53 on: May 10, 2020, 11:42:53 AM »

Which begs the question, has anyone seen anything that would suggest race was in any way shape or form a factor in this? Not that it matters to the MSM/Dems/libs/race baiters ect....
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Ben

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #54 on: May 10, 2020, 11:46:05 AM »

Which begs the question, has anyone seen anything that would suggest race was in any way shape or form a factor in this? Not that it matters to the MSM/Dems/libs/race baiters ect....

Whether it was or wasn't, I'm going to reiterate that the optics of two bubbas in a pickup - one of them with a shotgun and riding in back instead of sitting in the passenger seat - chasing a black guy down the street, are simply devastating to the bubbas, even if they have a lifetime NAACP membership.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

WLJ

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #55 on: May 10, 2020, 11:51:08 AM »

Whether it was or wasn't, I'm going to reiterate that the optics of two bubbas in a pickup - one of them with a shotgun and riding in back instead of sitting in the passenger seat - chasing a black guy down the street, are simply devastating to the bubbas, even if they have a lifetime NAACP membership.

I agree and that's more than enough for the MSM etc.... Doesn't prove it though but feelings don't need proof do they?
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dogmush

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #56 on: May 10, 2020, 01:13:29 PM »

There's also going to be the issue of who initiated the confrontation. It would be one [still not a great idea] thing to follow someone suspected of a crime to get more evidence, or a better description for the cops.  It is a different thing to try  and stop or hold them. One is intimidating and rude, the other is an overtly hostile act.


For me, just going by the videos so far and the father and son's statement, the moment they pulled the truck in front of him and jumped out with guns, they had initiated violence.  What follows after that initiation is on them.

More facts may change that calculation, but we'll see.

MechAg94

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #57 on: May 10, 2020, 01:25:09 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcB6l3r0E04
Stefan Molyneux takes a different tack on this story.  It is worth considering.  One thing he mentions is Aubrey was on probation for a previous incident.  The retired police officer may have known who he was and he may have recognized the retired officer.   If he was actually trying to get away from a possible crime to avoid getting a parole violation, how would that affect his decision making.  Stefan Molyneux is making some assumptions in taking that line of reasoning I think.  Further investigation and trial should bring all that out if true.

What dogmush said is still true.  Even if Aubrey was a criminal running from a crime, that still may not legally excuse what the shooter did. 

“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Hawkmoon

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #58 on: May 10, 2020, 01:40:41 PM »

Private property is, indeed, private property. Entering without permission is trespassing. Whether or not it's criminal trespass depends on the wording of the state's laws on trespass.

According to the National Review, Georgia's state law on citizen's arrest is:

Quote
A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

Apparently the two defendants are claiming that they witnessed Arbery committing a burglary, giving them the right to arrest him. But he didn't take anything from the construction site, so he didn't commit a "burglary," even though he was trespassing. So their claim that they had justification to arrest him is open to debate. More to the point -- the law on citizen's arrest (if the citation from the NR is correct and complete) doesn't seem to authorize the use of deadly force in effecting a citizen's arrest.

Stay tuned.  [popcorn]

[Edit to add] Found an article by a Georgia attorney about Georgia's law on criminal trespass:
https://bixonlaw.com/georgia-trespassing-101/

It doesn't appear that Arbery's entry into the construction site qualifies as criminal trespass -- unless he had intentions of stealing, but if he was out for a jog that's unlikely. In any event, it looks like even criminal trespass in Georgia is only a misdemeanor, not a felony.

Another recital of the law, from an unbiased source:
https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-16/chapter-7/article-2/part-1/16-7-21/

dogmush

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #59 on: May 10, 2020, 01:51:28 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcB6l3r0E04
Stefan Molyneux takes a different tack on this story.  It is worth considering.  One thing he mentions is Aubrey was on probation for a previous incident.  The retired police officer may have known who he was and he may have recognized the retired officer.   If he was actually trying to get away from a possible crime to avoid getting a parole violation, how would that affect his decision making.  Stefan Molyneux is making some assumptions in taking that line of reasoning I think.  Further investigation and trial should bring all that out if true.

What dogmush said is still true.  Even if Aubrey was a criminal running from a crime, that still may not legally excuse what the shooter did. 



I would assume that if the retired cop knew Aubrey was on probation he would have made sure the cops knew that he knew it, and it would be in his initial statement.

I haven't seen that anywhere (which makes sense as the case is still open), but the lawyers for the accused have also not mentioned it in their statements so far. That makes me assume they didn't know each other in advance.

In the FL case of he who shall not be named lest ShootingStudent appear the trial was where a ton of the initial statements and reports became public in their entirety. We may have to wait that long to make informed opinions,  or at least remain open to changing our minds.

gunsmith

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #60 on: May 10, 2020, 02:04:47 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcB6l3r0E04
Stefan Molyneux takes a different tack on this story.  It is worth considering.  One thing he mentions is Aubrey was on probation for a previous incident.  The retired police officer may have known who he was and he may have recognized the retired officer.   If he was actually trying to get away from a possible crime to avoid getting a parole violation, how would that affect his decision making.  Stefan Molyneux is making some assumptions in taking that line of reasoning I think.  Further investigation and trial should bring all that out if true.

What dogmush said is still true.  Even if Aubrey was a criminal running from a crime, that still may not legally excuse what the shooter did. 



 Stefan is a pretty cool dude most of the time, I love his stuff.
However, while being "pro-gun" ... he doesn't really understand use of guns or study the laws and civilian uses of guns in a criminal case like we do....

 Most of us here would probably know that the police dislike freelancers apprehending and unlawfully shooting "perp's"
We would know that you leave the apprehending and unlawfully shooting to the professionals with uniforms, badges and legal immunity
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #61 on: May 10, 2020, 02:08:07 PM »

In the FL case of he who shall not be named lest ShootingStudent appear the trial was where a ton of the initial statements and reports became public in their entirety. We may have to wait that long to make informed opinions,  or at least remain open to changing our minds.


He who shall not be named lest he who shall not be deadnamed appear?
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #62 on: May 10, 2020, 02:11:53 PM »

It's all Orange Man's fault
Atlanta mayor calls Ahmaud Arbery killing 'a lynching'; says Trump's rhetoric gives racists permission
Quote
Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms compared the shooting death of 25-year-old Ahmaud Arbery in February to lynchings in the Jim Crow-era South and said that President Trump’s rhetoric give racists “permission to do it in an overt way.”

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/atlanta-mayor-calls-ahmaud-arbery-killing-a-lynching-says-trumps-rhetoric-gives-racists-permission

Get a dictionary, your honor. If racists were lynching blacks "in an overt way," they wouldn't try to disguise it as defending their neighborhood from criminals.

Wait, why am I expecting a race-baiting, race-huckster Democrat to say anything that makes sense?  :facepalm:
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #63 on: May 10, 2020, 03:32:19 PM »

I would assume that if the retired cop knew Aubrey was on probation he would have made sure the cops knew that he knew it, and it would be in his initial statement.

Was Arbery still on probation? The articles that mention probation date that as 2018.

MillCreek

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #64 on: May 10, 2020, 07:41:44 PM »

Whether it was or wasn't, I'm going to reiterate that the optics of two bubbas in a pickup - one of them with a shotgun and riding in back instead of sitting in the passenger seat - chasing a black guy down the street, are simply devastating to the bubbas, even if they have a lifetime NAACP membership.

And if I was a black man in the South, who saw a couple of bubbas heading toward me with shotguns, I would be worried about their intentions, even if they have a lifetime NAACP membership.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #65 on: May 10, 2020, 07:45:30 PM »

I wonder how it would have played out if the intended victim had a concealed carry permit and successfully defended himself from the unwarranted attack.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #66 on: May 10, 2020, 07:57:01 PM »

Perd Hapley

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #67 on: May 10, 2020, 08:01:46 PM »

I wonder how it would have played out if the intended victim had a concealed carry permit and successfully defended himself from the unwarranted attack.

Very quietly.
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Ben

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #68 on: May 10, 2020, 08:15:03 PM »

Update: https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/gbi-reviewing-new-video-footage-ahmaud-arbery-case/xvSWFTbaD0k9cr80R7CTnL/?ftag=YHF4eb9d17

There's video from a house across the street from the construction site.

A couple of things from that link open this up for me. This isn't the kind of walking through a house under construction that people might think was okay. If it was a new subdivision being built with ongoing construction of homes, that, to me, could be a lookeeloo just investigating floorplans. This looks more like somebody's house in an established neighborhood undergoing a remodel. I would never consider poking around in those circumstances. Also, hard to tell from the sped up video, but it doesn't look like he was jogging before he entered the home.

Also:

Quote
Arbery’s family said he liked to jog in the area. One of the armed men who confronted Arbery that day later told police they pursued him because they thought he had been involved in earlier break-ins in the neighborhood.

Again, why travel nine miles to jog in a random neighborhood versus a park, school track, along a river, etc.?

So I have growing suspicions about the victim's intentions. Though at this point I'm still calling him a victim because I still haven't seen cause for shooting him.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #69 on: May 10, 2020, 08:20:10 PM »


Again, why travel nine miles to jog in a random neighborhood versus a park, school track, along a river, etc.?


This is the second reference I've seen on APS to nine miles, but the articles I've read said the shooting occurred two miles from where Arbery lived. Two miles isn't an unreasonable jog.

That said, I agree regarding the nature of Arbery's visit to the house under construction (or reconstruction). But the neighbor who called in that someone had entered the house told the dispatcher that the house was under construction and open.

Ben

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #70 on: May 10, 2020, 08:23:34 PM »

This is the second reference I've seen on APS to nine miles,

My responses were based off one of WLJ's posts. If it's actually two miles, that's not at all unreasonable. That would pretty much be considered jogging in one's own neighborhood.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #71 on: May 10, 2020, 08:58:32 PM »

This is the second reference I've seen on APS to nine miles, but the articles I've read said the shooting occurred two miles from where Arbery lived. Two miles isn't an unreasonable jog.

That said, I agree regarding the nature of Arbery's visit to the house under construction (or reconstruction). But the neighbor who called in that someone had entered the house told the dispatcher that the house was under construction and open.

How far was the shooting from the alleged trespassing?
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WLJ

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #72 on: May 10, 2020, 08:59:25 PM »

My responses were based off one of WLJ's posts. If it's actually two miles, that's not at all unreasonable. That would pretty much be considered jogging in one's own neighborhood.

I posted that it was a comment I saw.
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Andiron

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #73 on: May 10, 2020, 09:27:45 PM »

I'm changing my vote to "trigger happy vigilantes remove choir boy and themselves from society, and nothing of value was lost".

Quote
Barnhill even tried to criminalize Arbery early on, bringing up his past record to cops. Court documents show that he was convicted of shoplifting and of violating probation in 2018, according to The New York Times. Five years earlier, Arbery was also indicted on accusations that he took a handgun to a high school basketball game.


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Hawkmoon

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Re: Jogger shot in Georgia
« Reply #74 on: May 10, 2020, 09:38:44 PM »

How far was the shooting from the alleged trespassing?

One or two blocks.
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