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Author Topic: Chicago  (Read 4154 times)

Hawkmoon

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Chicago
« on: August 11, 2020, 01:38:27 AM »

https://www.foxnews.com/us/cook-county-state-attorney-kim-foxxs-office-has-dismissed-more-than-25000-felony-cases-more-than-35-higher-than-her-predecessor

In less than a year, Kim Foxx, the Cook County chief prosecutor, has dropped charges in more than 25,000 felony cases.

And Chicago wonders why crime is increasing ...

WLJ

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Re: Chicago
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2020, 07:58:19 AM »

It's not looting, it's reparations   :facepalm:

Quote
“That is reparations,” a BLM organizer said. “Anything they wanted to take, they can take it because these businesses have insurance"
Quote
Black Lives Matter Chicago issued a statement obtained by the Chicago Sun-Times that read, “The mayor clearly has not learned anything since May, and she would be wise to understand that the people will keep rising up until the [Chicago Police Department] is abolished and our Black communities are fully invested in,” the group said in a statement.

Black Lives Matter holds rally in Chicago to support those arrested after looting, unrest
https://www.foxnews.com/us/black-lives-matter-holds-rally-chicago-support-arrested-looting-unrest
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

Ron

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Re: Chicago
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2020, 08:11:41 AM »

This state is filled with mentally (and spiritually) unhealthy people.

Between the neurotic covid response and the blase response to anarchy I feel like I'm a stranger living in a strange land.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead

HankB

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Re: Chicago
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2020, 03:14:20 PM »

I was born and raised in Chicago, but moved away decades ago, way back in the 20th Century.

I personally saw how government veered between crooked and dysfunctional back then and I don't think things have improved with time - quite the contrary, the downward spiral has continued.

Chicago has so many cultural and educational institutions - zoos, science and history museums, the Art institute and Chicago symphony, Shedd aquarium, Adler planetarium . . . it even used to have a famous gun club & shotgun range right on the lakefront. But things are starting to get too dangerous to go there and the lefty nihilists who've been having their way with the city for generations are now focused on its destruction.

Sad to see this happening.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Those who work for a living are being BURIED by those who vote for a living.
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
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K Frame

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Re: Chicago
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2020, 03:37:25 PM »

Chicago is the new Detroit.

Only, it's dying faster than Detroit ever could.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Chicago
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2020, 04:39:15 PM »


And Chicago wonders why crime is increasing ...

Crime is not increasing, if you don't have convictions.  Lowered prosecutions means less crime.  By definition.

The DA is not prosecuting a variety of arrest reports and complaints.  This is no different than, say, a 1920's prohibition era DA refusing to prosecute moonshiners, mobsters, and speakeasy owners.  Or in more modern context, a DA refusing to prosecute a person operating a suppressor and machine gun manufacturing outfit without corresponding ATF FFL paperwork.

Gotta remember where we are and the legal system we profess to want.  Crimes have not been committed unless a trial has found it to be so.  Prior to that, they are police complaints and arrest reports.

All that being said, they are neglecting to prosecute some pretty important stuff.  Assault, murder, theft, rape... these are kind of the biggies that need to be heavily discouraged to have a civilized society.  Ideally a civilized society rapes all it wants (to crib from Penn Jillette).  The uncivilized fringe of society get scared from raping all it wants.

Quote
Between the neurotic covid response and the blase response to anarchy I feel like I'm a stranger living in a strange land.

Chicago/Seattle/Portland is not anarchy.  These people are socialist guerrillas.  Rather effete ones, with strange hair and poor arms training... but it's what they aspire to be.  Anarchism aims for the elimination of all involuntary forms of human interaction.  These people ooze compulsion with every breath they take, even if it's sometimes comical and whiny.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Chicago
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2020, 05:07:35 PM »

Quote
Ideally a civilized society rapes all it wants (to crib from Penn Jillette).  The uncivilized fringe of society get scared from raping all it wants.


I like that philosophy
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

Hawkmoon

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Re: Chicago
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2020, 09:34:51 PM »


Gotta remember where we are and the legal system we profess to want.  Crimes have not been committed unless a trial has found it to be so.  Prior to that, they are police complaints and arrest reports.


I disagree. If I have been mugged or my house has been burgled a crime has been committed, irrespective of whether or not a suspect has been identified, arrested, or convicted. Even more so if someone is murdered. A murder is a murder, even if/when the cops can't solce it.

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Chicago
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2020, 10:11:03 PM »

I disagree. If I have been mugged or my house has been burgled a crime has been committed, irrespective of whether or not a suspect has been identified, arrested, or convicted. Even more so if someone is murdered. A murder is a murder, even if/when the cops can't solce it.

This isn't cops not solving it, this is the prosecutor deciding not to prosecute the case after the cops present their suspect and evidence.  Much like deciding that a homicide was self defense rather than murder.

A crime isn't a crime until it's convicted in a court.  It's just an allegation before then.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

TommyGunn

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Re: Chicago
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2020, 10:41:57 PM »

There sure are a lot of victims in the Windy City for  .... "crime"  not having gone up ..... [tinfoil] ...... :police: ..... ;/
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

WLJ

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Re: Chicago
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2020, 10:42:40 PM »

If a tree falls in the forest.................
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

just Warren

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Re: Chicago
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2020, 10:48:46 PM »

...it's racist?
Member in Good Standing of the Spontaneous Order of the Invisible Hand.

WLJ

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Re: Chicago
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2020, 10:50:55 PM »

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

Doggy Daddy

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Re: Chicago
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2020, 01:39:41 AM »

A crime isn't a crime until it's convicted in a court.  It's just an allegation before then.

Schrodinger's felony?
Would you exchange
a walk-on part in a war
for a lead role in a cage?
-P.F.

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Chicago
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2020, 10:00:43 AM »

Schrodinger's felony?

George Zimmerman committed no crime in the shooting of Treyvon Martin.  You all would agree with that, right?

"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

K Frame

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Re: Chicago
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2020, 10:09:46 AM »

"A crime isn't a crime until it's convicted in a court.  It's just an allegation before then."

OK, that makes no sense, because DOJ crime statistics are not based on convictions.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

WLJ

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Re: Chicago
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2020, 10:15:51 AM »

I walk into my house and find my house ransacked and stuff missing, I would say more than likely a crime had occurred.
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

TommyGunn

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Re: Chicago
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2020, 10:36:30 AM »

George Zimmerman committed no crime in the shooting of Treyvon Martin.  You all would agree with that, right?

Some people think he did.  With the evidence set available it was not unreasonable to assume --existentially -- that he did, or might have.  Given that the trial is long over and given the actual result,  he was "not guilty" (courts do not issue a verdict of innocent,  they find the defendant guilty, or not guilty).

We here at the time were expressing our opinions on the matter at the time.  

In many cases,  the fact of the crime may be obvious; say a bank robbery with everything caught on video,  and plenty of witnesses.  That doesn't mean identifying the guilty is a lock-cinch obvious conclusion .... if all suspects were wearing disguises then things might get dicey.

I agree with the principle of "innocent until proven guilty"  in so far as crime and punishment is concerned.   I would also agree it's important to take care in investigations to assure the real truth is discovered,  and the public ought to be very leery of media news coverage as they often get things bass ackwards -- and the Zimmerman event is a good example of some news sources editing recordings to deliver a stilted and wrong idea of the event.

Each event really ought to be considered alone and not conflated with other even similar crimes .  
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

Hawkmoon

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Re: Chicago
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2020, 10:38:56 AM »

This isn't cops not solving it, this is the prosecutor deciding not to prosecute the case after the cops present their suspect and evidence.  Much like deciding that a homicide was self defense rather than murder.

A crime isn't a crime until it's convicted in a court.  It's just an allegation before then.

I still have to disagree. A crime is whatever is defined in the laws of the state as a crime. Breaking into a house and taking jewelry, money, guns, and/or the flat-screen television is a crime, and is defined as such in the statutes of every state. If your house is broken into and things have been stolen, a crime has been committed. That's not an allegation -- that's a fact.

It remains a fact that the crime occurred, irrespective of whether or not the police ever identify a suspect, and irrespective of whether or not the prosecutor chooses to take a suspect to court or to drop charges against a suspect. Your house was still broken into, your stuff was stolen; by definition, a crime occurred.

If you think you know who did it and you tell the cops, that's an allegation until such time it has been proven in court with sufficient certainty to result in a conviction. If the police think they have sufficient probable cause to arrest and charge someone for the crime, that's an allegation until such time it has been proven in court with sufficient certainty to result in a conviction.

Don't confuse the fact of a crime having been committed with the presumption of innocence that applies to any suspects.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Chicago
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2020, 10:40:44 AM »

If it's a White Oak

Discrimination! You didn't mention White Birch.

WLJ

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Re: Chicago
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2020, 10:42:39 AM »

Discrimination! You didn't mention White Birch.

White Ash
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

Jim147

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Re: Chicago
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2020, 10:52:14 AM »

But the red oak is native.
Sometimes we carry more weight then we owe.
And sometimes goes on and on and on.

BAH-WEEP-GRAAAGHNAH WHEEP NI-NI BONG

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Chicago
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2020, 12:29:21 PM »

I still have to disagree. A crime is whatever is defined in the laws of the state as a crime. Breaking into a house and taking jewelry, money, guns, and/or the flat-screen television is a crime, and is defined as such in the statutes of every state. If your house is broken into and things have been stolen, a crime has been committed. That's not an allegation -- that's a fact.

It remains a fact that the crime occurred, irrespective of whether or not the police ever identify a suspect, and irrespective of whether or not the prosecutor chooses to take a suspect to court or to drop charges against a suspect. Your house was still broken into, your stuff was stolen; by definition, a crime occurred.

If you think you know who did it and you tell the cops, that's an allegation until such time it has been proven in court with sufficient certainty to result in a conviction. If the police think they have sufficient probable cause to arrest and charge someone for the crime, that's an allegation until such time it has been proven in court with sufficient certainty to result in a conviction.

Don't confuse the fact of a crime having been committed with the presumption of innocence that applies to any suspects.

Unless the police or DA say no crime has been committed.

Examples:  Your child is not at home.  You worry and call the police.  You worry about kidnapping and similar crimes.  The police say your child is not missing yet, the necessary time has not gone by for it to be a real missing persons situation.

You shoot and kill a home intruder.  Their family believes it is murder.  The investigation by police and DA says it was not.

You awaken one morning with flat tires.  Valve stems are missing.  You call the police, they take no report.

Your lawnmower is stolen from your garage overnight... you neglected to close the door.  You call the police.  They want proof of ownership before they begin a report.  You have no receipts, no photographs, and lawnmowers aren't registered.  They do nothing.


Even for insurance purposes, such as your home burglary incident, the police have the power to label or un-label something as a criminal action.  The individual isn't able to make that determination in the society we live in today.  And that's worthy of digestion alongside other discussions going on today such as qualified immunity.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Chicago
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2020, 12:30:38 PM »

Some people think he did.  With the evidence set available it was not unreasonable to assume --existentially -- that he did, or might have.  Given that the trial is long over and given the actual result,  he was "not guilty" (courts do not issue a verdict of innocent,  they find the defendant guilty, or not guilty).


The trial of Zimmerman determined that the homicide that occurred, was committed in self defense and that no murder or manslaughter happened at all.  There was no criminal loss of life to be tried, and therefore no crime.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

TommyGunn

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Re: Chicago
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2020, 02:28:54 PM »

The trial of Zimmerman determined that the homicide that occurred, was committed in self defense and that no murder or manslaughter happened at all.  There was no criminal loss of life to be tried, and therefore no crime.

Yeah .... so what?    You said what I said in different words. ???
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero
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