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Author Topic: "ethnomathematics"  (Read 2596 times)

Hawkmoon

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Re: "ethnomathematics"
« Reply #50 on: February 14, 2021, 01:58:48 PM »

I did a search on Denney Pate. According to one article I found, he has been with Figg for 31 years -- his entire working career. And the article says that it was his seal on the drawings, so he is the engineer of record. The article doesn't say, but after 31 years he may well be a partner.

https://heavy.com/news/2018/03/denney-denny-pate-figg-florida-fiu-bridge-collapse/

WLJ

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Re: "ethnomathematics"
« Reply #51 on: February 14, 2021, 01:59:55 PM »

One of the more famous examples
A single small design change resulted in 118 people dying

A Brief History of: The Hyatt Regency Walkway Collapse (Short Documentary)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La_VBtjhUHU
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Hawkmoon

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Re: "ethnomathematics"
« Reply #52 on: February 14, 2021, 02:15:06 PM »

One of the more famous examples
A single design change resulted in 118 people dying

A Brief History of: The Hyatt Regency Walkway Collapse (Short Documentary)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La_VBtjhUHU

That one is a classic, and it resulted in major changes to the way architects and engineers review and [don't] "approve" shop drawings. Before the Hyatt Regency collapse, our shop drawing stamps had options for "Approved," "Approved as Noted," "Revise and Resubmit," and either ""Not Approved" or "Rejected."

After Hyatt Regency, the liability insurers demanded that the language be changed so that architects and engineers not "approve" shop drawings. The new language is along the lines of "Reviewed - No Exceptions Taken," "Reviewed - Construction May Proceed as Noted," "Revise and Resubmit," and "Not Accepted." There is now also a block of verbiage (which doesn't mean anything as a result of the Hyatt Regency decision, but the insurers demand it anyway) that says something like "Our review is limited to general conformance with the design concept ..." and a bunch of other weasel words intended to create some distance between the architect/engineer and whoever it is that generates the shop drawings.

It may seem like a minor change but, in the legal arena where the word "Approve" carries great significance, this was a sea change in professional liability.

I could write a book on why and how what seemed like a minor departure from the original design became such a major issue, but it has already been written up in detail in a number of publications. This was another case where who was the engineer of record became a crucial point. In the Hyatt Regency case, the engineers who designed it had a design for the hanger rods that supported the catwalks. The steel company that was hired to fabricate the hanger rods changed the design to make it easier to fabricate the rods. The design engineers "approved" the shop drawings, without noticing the significance of the change.

In court, the engineer of record argued that the fabricator had changed their design, so they shouldn't be liable. The court disagreed. The court ruled that, as the engineer of record, it was their responsibility to ensure that the completed project was safe. By reviewing and "approving" the shop drawings, they took ownership of the change. This was the major wake-up call for architects and engineers -- if you are the architect/engineer of record, YOU OWN IT. Up to then, reviews of shop drawings were often limited to a quick scan. If it more or less looked like what the firm had designed, it was "approved." All of a sudden, architects and engineers found that they had to actually look at the shop drawings, and understand them.

That incident changed the way architects and engineers ran their practices permanently.

Jim147

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Re: "ethnomathematics"
« Reply #53 on: February 14, 2021, 04:02:52 PM »

One of the more famous examples
A single small design change resulted in 118 people dying

A Brief History of: The Hyatt Regency Walkway Collapse (Short Documentary)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La_VBtjhUHU

I was living in the KC area at the time and remember when it hit the news. My dads friend was a first responder and headed straight from our house to there.

He took his own life a few years later. Not sure if there was any connection.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: "ethnomathematics"
« Reply #54 on: February 14, 2021, 06:22:18 PM »

More to the point, what's with putting "the 'right' answer" in quotes, as if there isn't really such a thing as a right answer in mathematics? It appears that some people are unclear on the concept of how math works. 2+2 can never equal 3 or 5, regardless of whether they put "right" in quotes or not.


Math has many shades of grey, unless it's proving climate change.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: "ethnomathematics"
« Reply #55 on: February 14, 2021, 10:27:36 PM »


Math has many shades of grey, unless it's proving climate change.

Or tallying up covid deaths.
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WLJ

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Re: "ethnomathematics"
« Reply #56 on: February 14, 2021, 10:44:10 PM »

Or counting votes
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Hawkmoon

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Re: "ethnomathematics"
« Reply #57 on: February 15, 2021, 12:13:43 AM »

The three great lies:

1. Of course I'll respect you in the morning
2. The science is settled
3. The vote wasn't rigged

Hawkmoon

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Re: "ethnomathematics"
« Reply #58 on: February 15, 2021, 12:34:42 AM »

I don't think these guys would agree that in math there are no wrong answers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMKXbLBgkEc

Fast forward to 09:40 for the math part

230RN

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Re: "ethnomathematics"
« Reply #59 on: February 15, 2021, 03:59:04 AM »

Haqkmoon commented,

Quote
It's the damnedest web site I've even seen, though. I tried it in two different browsers, and I don't see anything on there about an address, a phone number, or any way to contact them or even to figure out where their office(s) is/are located.

I've been noticing that trend more and more lately.  I guess part of it is it's more cost-effective to deal with inquiries on the website than phone or mail or knocking on their door.  As opposed to being sneaky or skullduggerous.

I started to notice this when I tried to get filters for a 110 Volt hand vacuum cleaner (like a Dustbuster) and there was no information in the packing or the instructions as to where they were from.  The retailer didn't know (or care to find out) either.

I let it go, but that triggered me into checking stuff like that from time to time.

I guess the last resort is to inquire as to their "Agent For Service" through (usually) the Secretary of State for your State.

Ben

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Re: "ethnomathematics"
« Reply #60 on: February 15, 2021, 11:37:38 AM »

Good point:

Quote
Zaid Jilani
@ZaidJilani
·
18h
Ironically, Chinese and Indian kids are not going to be taught like this. Only Anglo-American countries like US, UK, Canada are fertile ground for this ideology.

I also saw a black educator on the news yesterday simply ripping these people to shreds regarding the harm rich white liberals are doing to black students. I wish there was a video clip of it.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

griz

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Re: "ethnomathematics"
« Reply #61 on: February 15, 2021, 04:06:54 PM »

Good point:

I also saw a black educator on the news yesterday simply ripping these people to shreds regarding the harm rich white liberals are doing to black students. I wish there was a video clip of it.

I wish more people would realize that.  Doesn't matter the race, if you tell a student the deck is stacked against them and they are as smart as anybody else, and then you give them the same grade as the student who knew the right answers, you aren't doing them any favor.  They need an education, not a diploma.
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Angel Eyes

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Perd Hapley

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Re: "ethnomathematics"
« Reply #63 on: February 16, 2021, 01:00:37 PM »

"White supremacy culture" - good grief. First it was rape culture, and now this.

Wait. Are all my white guy friends out there raping black chicks, and didn't invite me?  ;/

(I know, that sounds weird, coming from a guy with a black avatar.)
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WLJ

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Re: "ethnomathematics"
« Reply #64 on: March 05, 2021, 11:18:33 AM »

Weep for this country

Student in Baltimore high school ranks near the top half of his class with a 0.13 grade point average
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2021/03/04/student-in-baltimore-high-school-ranks-near-the-top-half-of-his-class-with-a-0-13-grade-point-average/
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Ben

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Re: "ethnomathematics"
« Reply #65 on: March 05, 2021, 11:24:21 AM »

Weep for this country

Student in Baltimore high school ranks near the top half of his class with a 0.13 grade point average
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2021/03/04/student-in-baltimore-high-school-ranks-near-the-top-half-of-his-class-with-a-0-13-grade-point-average/

They seem to be focusing blame on the school. I'm positive there is plenty of blame in public school administration, but:

Quote
As we dig deeper into [Tiffany France’s] son’s records, we can see in his first three years at Augusta Fells, he failed 22 classes and was late or absent 272 days. But in those three years, only one teacher requested a parent conference, which France says never happened. No one from the school told France her son was failing and not going to class.

Somehow the parent is shocked to find out he skipped 272 days of school over three years? Report cards weren't sent home? The parent never demanded to see his grades?
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

WLJ

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Re: "ethnomathematics"
« Reply #66 on: March 05, 2021, 11:35:27 AM »

They seem to be focusing blame on the school. I'm positive there is plenty of blame in public school administration, but:

Somehow the parent is shocked to find out he skipped 272 days of school over three years? Report cards weren't sent home? The parent never demanded to see his grades?

It's every which way you turn in this
The Parent(s) didn't care
The school didn't care
The school admin didn't care
At the root I blame modern inner city society (I'm sure many a dem/lefty would scream racism at that). Kind of hard to make someone care about getting an education when they're brought up a culture where willful ignorance is not only allowed but actively encouraged in many cases. I'm sure the parent(s) are victims of this as well and the cycle continues. The solution as always will be to scream racism and throw more money at it rather than trying to undo the culture of ignorance which would be racist of course.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2021, 11:48:09 AM by WLJ »
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Angel Eyes

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Re: "ethnomathematics"
« Reply #67 on: March 05, 2021, 11:43:31 AM »

They seem to be focusing blame on the school. I'm positive there is plenty of blame in public school administration, but:

Quote
Even though the student failed Algebra I, Spanish I, and English II, he was promoted to Algebra II, Spanish II, and English III. Now that he’s made it through the system for four years, they’re sending him back to ninth grade to start over, as if that’s going to help.

So ... yeah, the school bears a sizable chunk of the blame.  Waiting until he's about to graduate before sending him back down to 9th grade?  How about addressing the problem when he started failing his classes?

Not that the mother is blameless, but if she's working three jobs as claimed in the article, she won't have much time for anything else.  As others have asked: where is the father? 
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MechAg94

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Re: "ethnomathematics"
« Reply #68 on: March 05, 2021, 12:11:56 PM »

And there are a bunch of other kids that are in worse shape than this one.  He is near the midpoint.  How many kids at that school are actually there on any given day?  The school district is using him as a funding tool by claiming him in their head count and no one at any level cares. 

Quote
Reminded of the college prof from a few yrs ago: "The ever-present soft bigotry of low expectations and the permanent claim that the solutions to the plight of my people rest exclusively on the goodwill of whites rather than on our own hard work is psychologically devastating."

And also, yeah. it would be nice if he had an education, but he could have been working and/or learning a trade for the last 3 years.  Maybe his Mom wouldn't need to work 3 jobs.

I am sure the Govt answer will be to increase truancy enforcement so they can fine the parent. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Hawkmoon

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Re: "ethnomathematics"
« Reply #69 on: March 05, 2021, 02:34:58 PM »

Unfortunately, some of them will end up designing bridges with SJW math.

http://www.cpdm.com/architecture/misalignedbridgehires.jpg

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.3xlpxeimliSPM1_5xjBpCgHaF3%26pid%3DApi&f=1

If they succeed in completely trashing math (and STEM in general) in U.S. schools, they'll have a stronger argument for unlimited importation of cheap foreign workers who know how to add 2+2 and get 4 as an answer.

Angel Eyes

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Perd Hapley

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Re: "ethnomathematics"
« Reply #71 on: March 05, 2021, 06:15:51 PM »

I guess the Left realized the easiest way to put Americans into re-education camps was to turn the whole country into one.
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MechAg94

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Re: "ethnomathematics"
« Reply #72 on: March 05, 2021, 08:57:35 PM »

http://www.cpdm.com/architecture/misalignedbridgehires.jpg

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.3xlpxeimliSPM1_5xjBpCgHaF3%26pid%3DApi&f=1

If they succeed in completely trashing math (and STEM in general) in U.S. schools, they'll have a stronger argument for unlimited importation of cheap foreign workers who know how to add 2+2 and get 4 as an answer.
Is that one bridge a fake?  Why would they finish the road surface when the bridge was misaligned?
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Hawkmoon

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Re: "ethnomathematics"
« Reply #73 on: March 05, 2021, 11:59:24 PM »

Is that one bridge a fake?  Why would they finish the road surface when the bridge was misaligned?

It may be. There was another (I think more widely known) image of a misaligned bridge, but apparently our friends at Snopes don't seem to think it's real ... so I didn't use it.

In the real world -- my last long-term assignment in the construction world was a VERY large railroad repair facility. I can't begin to count how many sets of eyes reviewed the original design and construction plans, and then how many sets of eyes reviewed the "shop drawings" for each component that went into the building. The main shop had three rail lines running through it, each long enough to hold an entire 6-car commuter train indoors and under roof. At various points along each line there are turntables, so the trucks (the undercarriages that hold the wheels) can be removed from a car, rotated 90 degrees, and rolled off to the side where they can be hoisted up by a gigantic overhead crane.

Don't remember if the total is nine or twelve of these turntables. After all the reviews and approvals ... when they were installed the rails didn't line up with the tracks. I am very happy that I wasn't one of the sets of eyes that reviewed those shop drawings.

WLJ

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Re: "ethnomathematics"
« Reply #74 on: July 15, 2021, 08:47:10 AM »

And the solution will be!
Blame white people.
Throw more money at the teachers unions

More than 40 percent of Baltimore high school students earned a grade point average below 1.0
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2021/07/14/more-than-40-percent-of-baltimore-high-school-students-earned-a-grade-point-average-below-1-0/
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