Author Topic: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control  (Read 61182 times)

cordex

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Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
« Reply #650 on: June 17, 2022, 10:25:50 AM »
Not just TV. More than a century ago, Mark Twain wrote something along the lines of "If you don't read the newspaper, you are uninformed. If you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed."
To bring this into the modern era:
... and if you read true information that makes you mistrust the government then you're malinformed.

WLJ

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Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
« Reply #651 on: June 17, 2022, 11:17:15 AM »
Kyle Rittenhouse
@ThisIsKyleR
Come and take ‘em, Joe.
https://twitter.com/ThisIsKyleR/status/1533930686121484295

Many of the comments are headache inducing
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WLJ

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Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
« Reply #652 on: June 17, 2022, 11:33:10 AM »
The Pennsylvania governor has posted an infographic to show how red flag laws work. I know nothing about him, so I can't tell if he's serious that this is a good example or if he's being sarcastic.



https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/06/16/gov-tom-wolf-posts-a-cartoon-version-of-how-red-flag-laws-work-to-prevent-mass-shootings/

Real World version

https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1537791670149861377/photo/1
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Perd Hapley

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Angel Eyes

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Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
« Reply #654 on: June 17, 2022, 12:51:57 PM »

"I make love to men daily, but in the imagination."
                         - Barack Obama

cordex

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Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
« Reply #655 on: June 17, 2022, 01:20:04 PM »
Red flag laws lend themselves to serious abuse, and I don't trust them to either be designed or used in good faith.

However, I would note that whenever a mediagenic mass-shooting happens, in deflecting from gun control many folks on "our side" tend to point to the (inevitable) lengthy history of complaints about often sub-criminal, or mildly-criminal behavior on the part of the shooter and say "Well, look at how obviously crazy that person was, why didn't the cops do something before he snapped?" I've seen the argument more times than I can count on APS and have probably made it myself.  It seems to me that proponents of that position are asking for some sort of red flag laws.

That said, I don't pretend to have any answers.  If government could be trusted - both now and in perpetuity - then one might put a lot of possible solutions on the table.  But the government absolutely cannot be trusted.

 =|

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
« Reply #656 on: June 17, 2022, 01:23:14 PM »
Kyle Rittenhouse
@ThisIsKyleR
Come and take ‘em, Joe.
https://twitter.com/ThisIsKyleR/status/1533930686121484295

Many of the comments are headache inducing

Rittenhouse is an idiot.

That gun is already taken.  FOPA-86 drives the market value of that gun well in excess of $200,000.  Realistically, it should sell somewhere closer to a piece of precision industrial construction equipment, in the $5k-$10k range.
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MillCreek

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Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
« Reply #657 on: June 17, 2022, 01:34:30 PM »
https://mynorthwest.com/1491212/red-flag-law-washington/

I have been looking for actual data on the number of ERPOs in Washington state and why they are granted.  I would have thought there would be state-wide numbers, but if so, I have not found them.  I did see this tidbit in the article linked above: 

For 2018, the unit assisted on a total of 71 ERPOs that were ultimately granted – only two of those were initiated by family members, though, highlighting the need to educate the public about the fact that they can ask the court for assistance.

Of the 71, Wyatt says 45 percent involved people threatening to hurt themselves, while 33 percent involved threats against others. The remainder was a mixture of the two.

Wyatt says most of the threats against others were domestic violence related.


So a big chunk of the orders granted in King County in 2018 were for threats of suicide and the rest were for threats against others, primarily domestic violence. 

As long as there is due process and judicial review, I have no problem with the concept of temporarily or even permanently removing firearms from people with suicidal intent, or medical or psychiatric problems making them a danger to themselves or others, such as dementia.  From the standpoint of predicting current or future dangerousness of someone, I am more skeptical on our ability to do so and there is lots of potential for political or legal manipulation of the system.  It is hard to generate data on a negative: by temporarily removing these guns, we prevented X number of deaths or injuries.
_____________
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MechAg94

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Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
« Reply #658 on: June 17, 2022, 02:12:10 PM »
Rittenhouse is an idiot.

That gun is already taken.  FOPA-86 drives the market value of that gun well in excess of $200,000.  Realistically, it should sell somewhere closer to a piece of precision industrial construction equipment, in the $5k-$10k range.
He is a kid.  Why are you looking at him for wise commentary on the RKBA? 
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sumpnz

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Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
« Reply #659 on: June 17, 2022, 02:27:31 PM »
Rittenhouse is an idiot.

That gun is already taken.  FOPA-86 drives the market value of that gun well in excess of $200,000.  Realistically, it should sell somewhere closer to a piece of precision industrial construction equipment, in the $5k-$10k range.

That assumes it’s even transferable at all.  It’s entirely possible the range has a SOT license and it’s a post-86 minigun.

MechAg94

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Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
« Reply #660 on: June 17, 2022, 03:07:21 PM »
Polls were mentioned previously.  This one came up on Truth about Guns. 

Nearly 3 Out Of 4 Support Raising Legal Age To Buy Any Gun, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds; Support For Assault Weapons Ban Hits A Low
https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3848

( I guess it could be the same poll for all I know)
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

WLJ

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Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
« Reply #661 on: June 18, 2022, 07:41:19 AM »
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
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Pb

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Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
« Reply #662 on: June 19, 2022, 09:38:13 PM »
Ok, so what does the article say? 

WLJ

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Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
« Reply #663 on: June 21, 2022, 08:47:27 AM »
Says text of the bill will be made available later today.

BREAKING NEWS: Senate Negotiators Reach Agreement On Red Flag & Boyfriend Loophole!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOHVzf0pcF4
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Angel Eyes

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Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
« Reply #664 on: June 21, 2022, 01:43:05 PM »
A potential roadblock is inclusion of the Hyde Amendment in the gun-control bill:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/abortion-provision-latest-hangup-senate-gun-bill

... because guns should not be used to perform abortions, or something ...
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HankB

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Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
« Reply #665 on: June 21, 2022, 02:55:04 PM »
A potential roadblock is inclusion of the Hyde Amendment in the gun-control bill:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/abortion-provision-latest-hangup-senate-gun-bill

... because guns should not be used to perform abortions, or something ...
Hey, Republicans - how about attaching the Hearing Protection Act to the democrat gun bill?
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Ben

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Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
« Reply #666 on: June 21, 2022, 05:29:20 PM »
Hey, Republicans - how about attaching the Hearing Protection Act to the democrat gun bill?

Hey, no *expletive deleted*it. That's a great idea.
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sumpnz

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Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
« Reply #667 on: June 21, 2022, 05:39:43 PM »
Hey, Republicans - how about attaching the Hearing Protection Act to the democrat gun bill?

WHAT??

WLJ

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Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
« Reply #668 on: June 21, 2022, 05:51:25 PM »
According to this they have something they're trying to vote on today
Something about the abortion part of the red flag part being a sticking point

BREAKING: Senate Gun-Control Heads To The Floor For A Vote!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJUmvwqSvMc
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WLJ

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Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
« Reply #669 on: June 21, 2022, 10:15:37 PM »
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
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WLJ

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Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
« Reply #670 on: June 21, 2022, 10:20:23 PM »
Mostly mental health stuff
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WLJ

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Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
« Reply #671 on: June 21, 2022, 10:41:02 PM »
Fed funding for state level red flag laws
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Jim147

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Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
« Reply #672 on: June 21, 2022, 10:46:15 PM »
Tons of FBI funding from somewhere. No guaranty of due process on the red flag laws. Just a suggestion.
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WLJ

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Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
« Reply #673 on: June 21, 2022, 11:04:02 PM »
Ok, so what does the article say?


Sorry just noticed your question.
Thought I had type a comment but where did it go? Probably lost somewhere between keyboard and chair.
Anyway, that was a photo posted and the whole point is the absurdity of thinking an EO could magically stop "gun" violence.
The actual article never saw it, just the title was enough for me to know it was a waste of time.
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WLJ

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Re: Looks like Biden is Ready to Move on Gun Control
« Reply #674 on: June 22, 2022, 09:38:03 AM »
Investments in mental health. In other words federal $$$$$$$$$$

Federal grant program to “encourage” states to adopt “red flag” firearms seizure laws. Basically bribe money to get the states to do the dirty work

Expands background checks to anyone under 21 to include juvenile records

Changes the wording in what defines a gun dealer from someone who sells firearms “with the principal objective of livelihood and profit” to “‘to predominantly earn a profit.”

Makes straw purchases double secret illegal

Closes the  "boyfriend loophole" by changing the definition of what is a relationship.

School safety clearing house. Not sure what what that is yet but I think basically more money for school security

***Update: Done Deal?*** Gun deal reportedly reached by Senate negotiators. Here's what's included
https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2022/06/12/gun-deal-reportedly-reached-by-senate-negotiators-heres-whats-included-n59277

Senate deal finally a bill. Is it as bad as we thought?
https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2022/06/22/senate-bill-n59604
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