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Author Topic: Make sure to ask for lug nut tightening  (Read 630 times)

BobR

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Make sure to ask for lug nut tightening
« on: February 19, 2021, 02:44:46 PM »

I am sure there is some esoteric law stuff here I don't understand because a lot of times the law deviates from common sense. But this time it seems to have taken  hard reversal from common sense. All I know is from now on I will ask for lug nut tightening with my tire rotations.  ;)

Michigan Court rules that a tire rotation does not include tightening lug nuts.

https://www.forgednfast.com/michigan-court-rules-that-a-tire-rotation-does-not-include-tightening-lug-nuts/?fbclid=IwAR1Q9jeqSlTFOJ6Z718WrWayXR4AgUo9rmsmVV_yQ52NIS-OTcNxebNEHj8

Then again I am just cynical enough to think this judge will be driving a new car every couple of years, and will get quite the deal on it.

bob

MillCreek

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Re: Make sure to ask for lug nut tightening
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2021, 02:45:44 PM »

This very night, I will ask my wife for lug nut tightening.  I will report back.
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BobR

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Re: Make sure to ask for lug nut tightening
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2021, 02:50:39 PM »

This very night, I will ask my wife for lug nut tightening.  I will report back.

I think I already know the answer but you go right ahead and try it!  :rofl:


bob

WLJ

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Re: Make sure to ask for lug nut tightening
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2021, 03:06:36 PM »

I guess oil changes don't include putting the drain plug back in now.
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MechAg94

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Re: Make sure to ask for lug nut tightening
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2021, 03:15:30 PM »

Why did this even get to court?  Did the dealership not take care of things when the brought the vehicle back in?  Anyone know the original story?
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cordex

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Re: Make sure to ask for lug nut tightening
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2021, 03:31:24 PM »

Why did this even get to court?  Did the dealership not take care of things when the brought the vehicle back in?  Anyone know the original story?
I think in the initial trial the dealership admitted to screwing up, but didn't agree with everything the vehicle owners said was damaged.  Also the plaintiffs were awarded attorney's fees and costs based on the dealership being found in violation of a specific act (specifically: charging for a repair not performed).  The dealership didn't contest the damages, just that they did not believe they had violated the act.
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On appeal, defendants do not challenge the jury verdict or the amount awarded as actual damages, but challenge the trial courtís directed verdict regarding whether they violated MVSRA and the related post-judgment award of attorney fees and costs.

Brad Johnson

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Re: Make sure to ask for lug nut tightening
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2021, 04:08:54 PM »

Surely something this blatantly idiotic will end up on Lehto's Law. He lurvs him some silliness like this, especially when it comes from Michigan.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMljRGC0eBJrxbUorWEnasg

edit to add... Looks like it already has.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPP8yXy_uO0

Brad
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Kingcreek

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Re: Make sure to ask for lug nut tightening
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2021, 04:38:55 PM »

I bought new tires and watched them mount balance and torque the lug nuts.
I drove it 6 miles home, pulled into garage, and rechecked every nut with my own torque wrench.
80 miles later I checked them again.
Itís not that I donít rust the minimum wage wrench monkeys, itís just that I trust myself more.
What we have here is failure to communicate.

Jim147

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Re: Make sure to ask for lug nut tightening
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2021, 06:27:39 PM »

The long shank mag wheels need to be retorqued at intervals. Soon after be installed they need checked the most.
Sometimes we carry more weight then we owe.
And sometimes goes on and on and on.

BAH-WEEP-GRAAAGHNAH WHEEP NI-NI BONG

AJ Dual

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Re: Make sure to ask for lug nut tightening
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2021, 11:27:26 AM »

Over torque is usually my problem. They never adjust the gun when driving the lug nuts.  :-[

I've broken off studs 10 times now trying to change the tires on my car from that.
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Jim147

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Re: Make sure to ask for lug nut tightening
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2021, 11:41:43 AM »

I make them use a torque wrench or I take the wheels in and put them back on myself.
Sometimes we carry more weight then we owe.
And sometimes goes on and on and on.

BAH-WEEP-GRAAAGHNAH WHEEP NI-NI BONG

zxcvbob

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Re: Make sure to ask for lug nut tightening
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2021, 12:35:56 PM »

I have had good luck lately at Walmart, of all places.  They use a torque wrench to tighten the lugs, and they once replaced an oil drain plug free of charge because the last place (the Ford dealer) had overtightened it and screwed it up somehow.  They gave me the old plug and it looks okay to me, but the corners are rounded off just slightly.  I'm guessing WMT did that trying to get the thing loose.

I bought a set of tires there, so I've been taking the car back for oil changes and free tire rotations.

I've never broken a wheel stud, but I have had to use a breaker bar and a cheater pipe to get lug nuts off after some tire jockey used an impact wrench to tighten them.  I would have been screwed it I'd had to change that tire on the side of the road.  :mad:
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dogmush

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Re: Make sure to ask for lug nut tightening
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2021, 12:37:06 PM »

Meh.  6 ugah-dugah's at 120psi is fine.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Make sure to ask for lug nut tightening
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2021, 05:40:19 PM »

This very night, I will ask my wife for lug nut tightening.  I will report back.

Your wife does your tire rotations?

Hawkmoon

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Re: Make sure to ask for lug nut tightening
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2021, 05:41:31 PM »

I am sure there is some esoteric law stuff here I don't understand because a lot of times the law deviates from common sense. But this time it seems to have taken  hard reversal from common sense. All I know is from now on I will ask for lug nut tightening with my tire rotations.  ;)

Michigan Court rules that a tire rotation does not include tightening lug nuts.


Shakespeare was right.

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers." ( Henry VI, Part 2, Act IV, Scene 2.)

Hawkmoon

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Re: Make sure to ask for lug nut tightening
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2021, 05:44:57 PM »


I've never broken a wheel stud, but I have had to use a breaker bar and a cheater pipe to get lug nuts off after some tire jockey used an impact wrench to tighten them.  I would have been screwed it I'd had to change that tire on the side of the road.  :mad:

This is why I never let a shop touch my tires and wheels on the vehicle. When I buy tires, I take the tires and wheels to the tire shop in the back of my Cherokee. Same thing when I want them balanced -- I take them off the car, I take them to the shop in the cargo bay of the Cherokee, and I put them back on the car when I get home. I use a torque wrench, not a burp gun.

zxcvbob

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Re: Make sure to ask for lug nut tightening
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2021, 05:47:03 PM »

Meh.  6 ugah-dugah's at 120psi is fine.

One ugah-dugah (with a light touch) is fine, but then you finish with the torque wrench.
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230RN

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Re: Make sure to ask for lug nut tightening
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2021, 06:32:34 PM »

Your wife does your tire rotations?

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Jim147

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Re: Make sure to ask for lug nut tightening
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2021, 07:20:58 PM »

This is why I never let a shop touch my tires and wheels on the vehicle. When I buy tires, I take the tires and wheels to the tire shop in the back of my Cherokee. Same thing when I want them balanced -- I take them off the car, I take them to the shop in the cargo bay of the Cherokee, and I put them back on the car when I get home. I use a torque wrench, not a burp gun.

How do you get tires in the Cherokee?
Sometimes we carry more weight then we owe.
And sometimes goes on and on and on.

BAH-WEEP-GRAAAGHNAH WHEEP NI-NI BONG

AmbulanceDriver

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Re: Make sure to ask for lug nut tightening
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2021, 11:31:36 PM »

Costco always spins them on to the lug with an air wrench (just to touch) then tightens with a torque wrench. And not just to some generic torque, I've seen them consulting a manual of some type before setting the torque.

I only see the impact guns in use when removing lugnuts.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Make sure to ask for lug nut tightening
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2021, 11:47:08 PM »

Costco always spins them on to the lug with an air wrench (just to touch) then tightens with a torque wrench. And not just to some generic torque, I've seen them consulting a manual of some type before setting the torque.


That would be good for most folks, but not for me.

Decades ago, on a cross-country trip I was passed by a late-model Mustang on an Interstate somewhere like Kansas. I was doing the speed limit, and the Mustang blew by me like I was standing still. A few miles down the road I pulled into a Stuckey's, and there was the Mustang -- with a totally shredded tire on the right rear. It had been a retread, but the speed overheated it and the tread parted company with the carcass.

It turned out to be a young couple on their honeymoon. And the guy couldn't get the lug nuts off, because they were rusted onto the studs and to the rims (which were steel) and all he had was a dorky handle that came with the jack. I had a 4-way spanner wrench in my car, so I helped him get the lug nuts loosened, and I also coaxed him into pulling his dipstick and putting a couple of drops of oil on each stud.

I've bought used cars on which the lug nuts were so frozen that I broke an impact socket trying to get them loose. So, a very long time ago, I started putting Never-Seez on my wheel studs. And I've never had a lug nut weld itself to the stud. BUT -- Never-Seez is a thread lubricant, and torque values are almost always specified as being for "clean, dry" threads. With lubrication, torque values should be reduced by a value of 15% to 25% (depending on the size and thread pitch). Since customers aren't allowed in the shop at most places, even a shop that uses a torque wrench would have no way of knowing that my lug nuts should be torqued to  90 ft-lbs rather than the 115 ft-lbs the Jeep service manual specifies.

Nick1911

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Re: Make sure to ask for lug nut tightening
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2021, 12:05:11 AM »

This is why I never let a shop touch my tires and wheels on the vehicle. When I buy tires, I take the tires and wheels to the tire shop in the back of my Cherokee. Same thing when I want them balanced -- I take them off the car, I take them to the shop in the cargo bay of the Cherokee, and I put them back on the car when I get home. I use a torque wrench, not a burp gun.

That would be good for most folks, but not for me.

Decades ago, on a cross-country trip I was passed by a late-model Mustang on an Interstate somewhere like Kansas. I was doing the speed limit, and the Mustang blew by me like I was standing still. A few miles down the road I pulled into a Stuckey's, and there was the Mustang -- with a totally shredded tire on the right rear. It had been a retread, but the speed overheated it and the tread parted company with the carcass.

It turned out to be a young couple on their honeymoon. And the guy couldn't get the lug nuts off, because they were rusted onto the studs and to the rims (which were steel) and all he had was a dorky handle that came with the jack. I had a 4-way spanner wrench in my car, so I helped him get the lug nuts loosened, and I also coaxed him into pulling his dipstick and putting a couple of drops of oil on each stud.

I've bought used cars on which the lug nuts were so frozen that I broke an impact socket trying to get them loose. So, a very long time ago, I started putting Never-Seez on my wheel studs. And I've never had a lug nut weld itself to the stud. BUT -- Never-Seez is a thread lubricant, and torque values are almost always specified as being for "clean, dry" threads. With lubrication, torque values should be reduced by a value of 15% to 25% (depending on the size and thread pitch). Since customers aren't allowed in the shop at most places, even a shop that uses a torque wrench would have no way of knowing that my lug nuts should be torqued to  90 ft-lbs rather than the 115 ft-lbs the Jeep service manual specifies.

Each to their own and all, but personal opinion: that's an awful lot of hassle and structure you've created for yourself to solve a very edge use case.

I take my car to a shop that uses a torque wrench, and have a $1 bit of cheater pipe thrown in with the factory spare tire crap.

dogmush

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Re: Make sure to ask for lug nut tightening
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2021, 04:45:15 AM »

But how often do you calibrate your torque wrench?!?!

Why those lugnuts could be 10 or 15% off?  You do do the biannual calibration,  right?

Devonai

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Re: Make sure to ask for lug nut tightening
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2021, 08:26:48 AM »

Why those lugnuts could be 10 or 15% off?  You do do the biannual calibration,  right?

When in doubt, just send it to PMEL and let them deal with it.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Make sure to ask for lug nut tightening
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2021, 01:33:28 PM »

It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
-HankB
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