Green electric vehicles

[MillCreek]

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/are-electric-vehicles-really-as-green-as-advertised/

How the electricity is produced is a major factor in the green impact of electric vehicles.  I will be really interested to see surplus vehicle batteries on the market as power storage.  If that happens, I will give serious thought to putting up a small wind turbine and capturing some juice.

[Grandpa Shooter]

I don't see the electric vehicles ever making a real dent in the market.  It would be really costly to install enough charging stations to ever make a lengthy trip possible in an EV. let alone the cost of the electricity.  The hybrids do some good, but even then the cost of replacing the batteries is prohibitive.  My brother, the ultimate greenie, is still driving a 10 year old Prius on gas only, because he can't afford new batteries.

[Jim147]

I don't like green. I want a white one.

[WLJ]

I don't like green. I want a white one.

Racist

[Fly320s]

I don't see the electric vehicles ever making a real dent in the market.  It would be really costly to install enough charging stations to ever make a lengthy trip possible in an EV. let alone the cost of the electricity.  The hybrids do some good, but even then the cost of replacing the batteries is prohibitive.  My brother, the ultimate greenie, is still driving a 10 year old Prius on gas only, because he can't afford new batteries.

The infrastructure would be a minor cost compared to the battery costs, because the costs will be spread out over many consumers, just like gas stations today.   Some of those gas stations will be converted to charging stations.

And electricity is pretty cheap.  My cost to charge my battery at home is around $8, IIRC.  I bet that commercial power is cheaper than my home power. 

The big cost is time.  My home charger takes about four hours.  The Tesla Superchargers take about 30 minutes.

EVs are already taking market share, though it is still a small percentage.  Tesla sells more cars every year and all other manufacturers are starting their own EV lines.

Like it or not, EVs will become more and more common.  Maybe because they are better.  Maybe because they are mandated.  Maybe because they are better for the planet.  Probably a combination of all three.

[RoadKingLarry]

I have no issues with the concept of electric powered vehicles.
 
When I can economically buy one that will replace this I'll seriously consider it.

[Fly320s]

How much weight can it haul?  Tow capacity?

[RoadKingLarry]

It's originally rated as 5/4 ton. I've never gotten around to fabricating a tow hitch for it but if I can get traction it'll pull it.
As to how much it can haul? I don't really know, I've loaded it up with as much fresh cut green oak firewood (a little over 1/2 a cord) as I could pile on and the most notable effect was that the ride was smoothed out a bit
 

[MechAg94]

I can see electric working just fine for people who just need one to run errands locally or short commutes.  When it gets to longer trips or heavier vehicles, we will see.  If electric can handle the typical commuter car that people use every day, that will be a big impact.  Whether it is better depends on how our electrical infrastructure is managed. 

Tesla was supposedly working on a truck.  A coworker has to haul his daughter around with horses for barrel racing a lot of weekends.  I don't know if the truck will handle that, but they might get there eventually.

[MillCreek]

I can see electric working just fine for people who just need one to run errands locally or short commutes.  When it gets to longer trips or heavier vehicles, we will see. 

This is exactly the business case my wife and I are contemplating for after we retire.  Most of our running about at that time will probably be pretty local.  Although I would think we will always have at least one ICE vehicle for utility or longer trips. 

[Fly320s]

Tesla was supposedly working on a truck.  A coworker has to haul his daughter around with horses for barrel racing a lot of weekends.  I don't know if the truck will handle that, but they might get there eventually.

For that, check out the Rivian R1T.  https://rivian.com/r1t    11,000 pounds towing capacity and about 1,600 pounds in the small bed.

I think it as awesome, but the sticker price kills the deal for me. 

Two prototype R1Ts drove from Tierra Del Fuego, Argentina to Los Angeles as part of Ewan McGregor's motorcycle documentary, "A Long Way Up."  McGregor and his pal rode electric motorcycles from Harley Davidson.

[MechAg94]

For that, check out the Rivian R1T.  https://rivian.com/r1t    11,000 pounds towing capacity and about 1,600 pounds in the small bed.

I think it as awesome, but the sticker price kills the deal for me. 

Two prototype R1Ts drove from Tierra Del Fuego, Argentina to Los Angeles as part of Ewan McGregor's motorcycle documentary, "A Long Way Up."  McGregor and his pal rode electric motorcycles from Harley Davidson.

Looks good, but the question I have to ask is can it make the stated range with 11,000 lbs attached?  I know my coworker might do 150 miles round trip heading to nearby county fairgrounds. 

[MechAg94]

This is exactly the business case my wife and I are contemplating for after we retire.  Most of our running about at that time will probably be pretty local.  Although I would think we will always have at least one ICE vehicle for utility or longer trips.

The other big question is the life of the batteries and the cost of a battery change.  With some cars, you have the expectation they will last quite a long time, others are disposable.  My Mother has a 15 year old Chevy Trailblazer that probably has 50,000 miles on it.  Even with the low miles, a similar car might still require battery changes.  The best niche might be the disposable car category that people aren't going to keep longer than 5 or 7 years anyway.

[Fly320s]

Looks good, but the question I have to ask is can it make the stated range with 11,000 lbs attached?  I know my coworker might do 150 miles round trip heading to nearby county fairgrounds.

No.  Website says range is cut in half at full load.  There is a longer range version coming out next year.

[Grandpa Shooter]

We drive from Ky to Az to our other property, and will be leaving the beginning of April.  It's 1600 miles one way and I will drive it straight through with maybe a nap at a rest area.  Can an electric vehicle do that?  I will be driving an F 150 with commercial shell and towing an 8 foot utility trailer with commercial topper, loaded with tools, supplies and building materials.  Can an electric truck do that?  I think not.

[Fly320s]

We drive from Ky to Az to our other property, and will be leaving the beginning of April.  It's 1600 miles one way and I will drive it straight through with maybe a nap at a rest area.  Can an electric vehicle do that?  I will be driving an F 150 with commercial shell and towing an 8 foot utility trailer with commercial topper, loaded with tools, supplies and building materials.  Can an electric truck do that?  I think not.

Yes, of course an EV can do that.  The trip will just take longer.

Your driving time will be 24 hours, not counting fuel stops.  Tesla says their Model X will take 32 hours, including charging time. Towing a trailer will reduce the range on both vehicles and increase the total trip time, but it can be done.

[kgbsquirrel]

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/are-electric-vehicles-really-as-green-as-advertised/

How the electricity is produced is a major factor in the green impact of electric vehicles.  I will be really interested to see surplus vehicle batteries on the market as power storage.  If that happens, I will give serious thought to putting up a small wind turbine and capturing some juice.

A steam turbine spun by a solar heated boiler would be substantially more power dense.  Density and reliability of solar (superior to wind in most places) but instead of pricy photovoltaic cells you just use standard mirrors.

[230RN]

I don't see the electric vehicles ever making a real dent in the market.  It would be really costly to install enough charging stations to ever make a lengthy trip possible in an EV. let alone the cost of the electricity.  The hybrids do some good, but even then the cost of replacing the batteries is prohibitive.  My brother, the ultimate greenie, is still driving a 10 year old Prius on gas only, because he can't afford new batteries.

So what kind  of millimeterage does he get per ml?

[MechAg94]

Yes, of course an EV can do that.  The trip will just take longer.

Your driving time will be 24 hours, not counting fuel stops.  Tesla says their Model X will take 32 hours, including charging time. Towing a trailer will reduce the range on both vehicles and increase the total trip time, but it can be done.

And that is really the rub.  Time is money. 

I am sure electric airliners are in someone's plans.  If you could fly from California to Chicago in 3 hours normally, but do it in 12 hours with an all electric airplane (same cost), would anyone go the electric route? 

[Ben]

I coincidentally just saw this article in my news feed. Seems kinda related to the conversation:

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2021/03/09/2021-ford-mustang-mach-e-reviews-owners/4636946001/

[MechAg94]

I coincidentally just saw this article in my news feed. Seems kinda related to the conversation:

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2021/03/09/2021-ford-mustang-mach-e-reviews-owners/4636946001/

The charging time surprises me.  I would think it would take longer even if not every time.


https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/find/nearest?fuel=ELEC
Map of US charging stations.  Plenty to get around if you do a little planning.

[MechAg94]

A question about electric drag racing popped into my head.  Found this. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bxwQeKhYXQ
The actual run seemed underwhelming.  Too quiet and the camera angle didn't give much appreciation for the distance.

I am curious if NASCAR allows electric motors.  I suspect not.

[Grandpa Shooter]

Yes, of course an EV can do that.  The trip will just take longer.

Your driving time will be 24 hours, not counting fuel stops.  Tesla says their Model X will take 32 hours, including charging time. Towing a trailer will reduce the range on both vehicles and increase the total trip time, but it can be done.

I'm not interested in parking anywhere while I wait to charge up.  If I'm going I want to get there.  This is not a sight seeing trip, it is to do maintenance on our property and get out of Kentucky for awhile.  While there I will be off grid with no recharging stations anywhere around.  How do I recharge an electric truck, if there were one affordable on a retirement pension?  All this talk of EV's is pie in the sky to me.

[Ben]

https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/find/nearest?fuel=ELEC
Map of US charging stations.  Plenty to get around if you do a little planning.

From that article I posted, apparently several manufacturers put a database in the infosystem so the GPS can direct you to stations. It sounds like it uses both GPS and miles left on the charge to give you a choice.

As far as waiting for a charge, 40 minutes or less is pretty darn good, at least for road trips. If I'm using electric as a local vehicle, obviously 40 minutes is a waste of time, but then I'm likely charging at home 95% of the time. On a road trip, even with a gas engine, you have 5-10 minutes of actually getting gas depending on lines and stuff, then I, at least, generally combine fuel stops with bathroom breaks, stretching and stuff, and sometimes food stops, so a fuel stop with my gas vehicle already takes me at least 15-30 minutes.

[cordex]

Another thing to consider is that just because someplace has one or more charging stations doesn't mean there won't be someone using it already.  I looked around my area and a lot of them were places like banks or car dealerships which means they probably aren't deploying tons of them.  So your 40 minutes might become much longer if you are waiting behind one or two people.  Waiting an extra few minutes to fuel up for gas isn't bad, but waiting a couple of hours because there is only one charging port available and there are a couple of people in front of you and there isn't another nearby charger?  That would be irritating.

I think EVs have their place, and I'd be interested in getting one for a spare vehicle (now that I've got a place to store it) but at their current price not a chance.  I'd love a bare-bones but tough electric work truck with a couple hundred mile range as most of the stuff I'd need a truck for at the new place would not require long trips.  For something like that which I wasn't using regularly I'd even consider looking into a solar-based charging station.  If it takes a few days to top it off, no big deal.

As far as an only vehicle?  Not unless I lived in an urban area with tons of charging options and didn't drive much.  Even then I'd worry about the edge cases.