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Author Topic: Preparing For the Derek Chauvin Verdict  (Read 2878 times)

Perd Hapley

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Re: Preparing For the Derek Chauvin Verdict
« Reply #150 on: April 24, 2021, 07:13:02 PM »

Are you under the impression that a single juror refusing to convict means an acquittal?

Of course. When did that change?

And, yeah, a nail to be hammered down. I get my life destroyed. I'm just waiting for it to happen. It will come.
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just Warren

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Re: Preparing For the Derek Chauvin Verdict
« Reply #151 on: April 24, 2021, 10:42:27 PM »

No, if it's one juror out of 12 it's a hung jury.

If it's 11 out of 12 jurors it's a well-hung jury.
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Nick1911

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Re: Preparing For the Derek Chauvin Verdict
« Reply #152 on: April 24, 2021, 11:34:18 PM »

No, if it's one juror out of 12 it's a hung jury.

If it's 11 out of 12 jurors it's a well-hung jury.

 :rofl:

dogmush

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Re: Preparing For the Derek Chauvin Verdict
« Reply #153 on: April 25, 2021, 01:52:37 AM »

Of course. When did that change?


As far as I know, that has NEVER been the case.  As Warren mentioned in his dad joke, if the vote isn't unanimous for either acquittal or conviction, it's a hung jury, the judge declares a mistrial, and the State tries again with a new jury.  Which is why I said that one vote doesn't really make a difference.

12 Angry Men would have been a lot shorter movie if Henry Fonda could have just voted not guilty and everyone went home.

Bogie

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Re: Preparing For the Derek Chauvin Verdict
« Reply #154 on: April 25, 2021, 08:15:44 AM »

The other fun is when a juror ignores the judge's rules... Which sometimes seem to be contrived to ensure either conviction or acquittal...
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zxcvbob

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Re: Preparing For the Derek Chauvin Verdict
« Reply #155 on: April 25, 2021, 10:37:59 AM »

The other fun is when a juror ignores the judge's rules... Which sometimes seem to be contrived to ensure either conviction or acquittal...

Jurors are allowed to ignore the judge's rules.  Our first chief justice of the USSC even said so.  That IMHO is the main point of having juries, to be triers of the law as well as the facts in exceptional cases.  But they need to go down that road carefully and not often.
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WLJ

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Re: Preparing For the Derek Chauvin Verdict
« Reply #156 on: May 01, 2021, 01:16:12 PM »

Looks like they're calling for more "severe" penalties than is the norm

Quote
Prosecutors are asking a judge to give Derek Chauvin a more severe penalty than state guidelines call for when he is sentenced in June for George Floyd's death, arguing in court documents filed Friday that Floyd was particularly vulnerable and that Chauvin abused his authority as a police officer.

Defense attorney Eric Nelson is opposing a tougher sentence, saying the state has failed to prove that those aggravating factors, among others, existed when Chauvin arrested Floyd on May 25.
https://www.wlky.com/article/derek-chauvin-george-floyd-higher-sentence-prosecutors/36306364
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Ben

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Re: Preparing For the Derek Chauvin Verdict
« Reply #157 on: May 01, 2021, 01:28:17 PM »

Looks like they're calling for more "severe" penalties than is the norm
https://www.wlky.com/article/derek-chauvin-george-floyd-higher-sentence-prosecutors/36306364

How much more severe can they get? He's already going up for two different kinds of murder and manslaughter. If they wanted even more, they should have gone for different charges to begin with. If they are shooting for more than is stated as a maximum for the current charges and get it, I would be in favor of the whole thing being thrown out. That is not justice in the United States.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Preparing For the Derek Chauvin Verdict
« Reply #158 on: May 01, 2021, 01:30:15 PM »

Jurors are allowed to ignore the judge's rules.  Our first chief justice of the USSC even said so.  That IMHO is the main point of having juries, to be triers of the law as well as the facts in exceptional cases.  But they need to go down that road carefully and not often.

The last time I was called for jury duty, unlike previous times, voir dire was conducted as a group rather than individually. We were under oath so, when we were asked if anyone might have trouble following a judge's instructions, I had to raise my hand. Much hilarity ensued.

First, they immediately sent all the other prospective jurors out of the room. Then BOTH attorneys ganged up on me and told me that jurors have to follow the judge's instructions. I told them I disagreed. Finally, they sequestered me in a small room while they found a judge, who then proceeded to tell me the same thing. I told her, as respectfully as I could, that I disagreed and that John Jay (the first Chief Justice) had disagreed. The judge told me that my understanding was incorrect. She dismissed me and told me to go home and do my homework.

So I did. I looked up the case (Brailsford v Georgia) and wrote the judge a letter to inform her that I had done as she instructed, found the case, and that I still believed I was correct. The judge never responded -- and I haven't been called for jury duty since. I think I'm black-listed.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2021, 06:04:34 PM by Hawkmoon »

Ben

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Re: Preparing For the Derek Chauvin Verdict
« Reply #159 on: May 04, 2021, 10:15:46 AM »

This is an interesting development:

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2021/05/04/the-verdict-should-be-thrown-out-a-chauvin-juror-appears-to-have-lied-about-attending-a-george-floyd-protest-and-check-out-his-t-shirt/

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/may/3/brandon-mitchell-derek-chauvin-juror-who-attended-/

Likely the most damning comment (If true - I can't find a direct quote):

Quote
The first Chauvin juror to speak out publicly also happens to be a BLM activist who lied to get on the jury and has admitted that he saw it as an opportunity to “spark social change.”


He claims that it was not a Floyd rally, but rather a civil rights rally. It's seems harder to explain away the shirt he was wearing though.

EDIT: This looks to verify that above quote:

https://thepostmillennial.com/chauvin-trial-juror-spark-some-change
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French G.

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Re: Preparing For the Derek Chauvin Verdict
« Reply #160 on: May 04, 2021, 12:36:33 PM »

So, ballot box tainted, jury box tainted, soap box highly suppressed by big tech. They need to stop pushing.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Preparing For the Derek Chauvin Verdict
« Reply #161 on: May 04, 2021, 05:14:21 PM »

This is an interesting development:

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2021/05/04/the-verdict-should-be-thrown-out-a-chauvin-juror-appears-to-have-lied-about-attending-a-george-floyd-protest-and-check-out-his-t-shirt/

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/may/3/brandon-mitchell-derek-chauvin-juror-who-attended-/

Likely the most damning comment (If true - I can't find a direct quote):


He claims that it was not a Floyd rally, but rather a civil rights rally. It's seems harder to explain away the shirt he was wearing though.

EDIT: This looks to verify that above quote:

https://thepostmillennial.com/chauvin-trial-juror-spark-some-change

Oh, yeah -- Brandon Michell, juror number 52. He's the same one who complained about one juror who actually wanted to take the time to understand what the law said before convicting. Mitchell is the guy who said it should have been over in 20 minutes.

https://news.yahoo.com/first-juror-speak-chauvin-trial-145029791.html

Quote
“I felt like it should have been 20 minutes,” Mr Mitchell said about the four-hour deliberation. He said only one juror, whom he didn’t identify, was not certain that Chauvin was guilty.

sumpnz

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Re: Preparing For the Derek Chauvin Verdict
« Reply #162 on: May 04, 2021, 05:38:11 PM »

It might, unfortunately, take a few years or more but his conviction will be overturned eventually.  Hopefully it doesn’t have to go all the way to SCOTUS, but it might.  I see no way the 2 murder charges can stand up to appeal, even without some of the jury and judge misbehavior.  With it the whole thing should be vacated and sent back for retrial.

Had they only convicted on manslaughter I’d be a lot more likely to assume Chauvin would be stuck serving his time.

Ben

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Re: Preparing For the Derek Chauvin Verdict
« Reply #163 on: May 04, 2021, 06:08:43 PM »

Had they only convicted on manslaughter I’d be a lot more likely to assume Chauvin would be stuck serving his time.

Yup,
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WLJ

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Re: Preparing For the Derek Chauvin Verdict
« Reply #164 on: May 04, 2021, 06:24:39 PM »

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zxcvbob

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Re: Preparing For the Derek Chauvin Verdict
« Reply #165 on: May 04, 2021, 06:28:11 PM »

I'm one of the few here who thinks Chauvin ought to hang, but I didn't see all the evidence.  But he's not guilty off all 3 charges; it's not possible.  And with the jury misconduct and the jury intimidation by Rep Waters and others, the whole thing needs to be either overturned and Chauvin released, or a mistrial declared and they start over.  (don't retry him, let the feds do that, 18 USC § 242)
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WLJ

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Re: Preparing For the Derek Chauvin Verdict
« Reply #166 on: May 04, 2021, 07:30:53 PM »

Quote
Nelson filed the motion on the grounds of juror misconduct, and that the court abused its discretion for failing to agree to the defense’s requests for a change of venue and sequestering the jury.
Derek Chauvin’s Attorney Files Motion For New Trial
https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021/05/04/derek-chauvins-attorney-files-motion-for-new-trial/

#news​ #justthefacts​ #realnews​
Breaking News: Chauvin Defense filed motion for Retrial
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENxM-W_T8gs
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Fly320s

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Re: Preparing For the Derek Chauvin Verdict
« Reply #167 on: May 04, 2021, 07:47:17 PM »

There is a photo floating around the internets of one of the jurors wearing a BLM t-shirt prior to the start of the trial.  That might be enough reason for a mistrial or retrial.
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WLJ

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Re: Preparing For the Derek Chauvin Verdict
« Reply #168 on: May 04, 2021, 07:49:40 PM »

There is a photo floating around the internets of one of the jurors wearing a BLM t-shirt prior to the start of the trial.  That might be enough reason for a mistrial or retrial.

Go to reply 159 the photo is in the links
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Fly320s

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Re: Preparing For the Derek Chauvin Verdict
« Reply #169 on: May 05, 2021, 04:54:00 PM »

Go to reply 159 the photo is in the links

Thanks.  That's probably where I saw it the first time.
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MechAg94

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Re: Preparing For the Derek Chauvin Verdict
« Reply #170 on: May 05, 2021, 05:03:54 PM »

I'm one of the few here who thinks Chauvin ought to hang, but I didn't see all the evidence.  But he's not guilty off all 3 charges; it's not possible.  And with the jury misconduct and the jury intimidation by Rep Waters and others, the whole thing needs to be either overturned and Chauvin released, or a mistrial declared and they start over.  (don't retry him, let the feds do that, 18 USC § 242)
I am in the boat that says Floyd died of an OD.  I think if they would have just stuffed him in the back of the car, he would have died anyway.  I thought they said he had enough Fentanyl in his system to do the job. 
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cordex

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Re: Preparing For the Derek Chauvin Verdict
« Reply #171 on: May 05, 2021, 05:26:35 PM »

I am in the boat that says Floyd died of an OD.  I think if they would have just stuffed him in the back of the car, he would have died anyway.  I thought they said he had enough Fentanyl in his system to do the job.
Yeah, the tox results and the fact that Floyd was complaining about inability to breathe when he was sitting in the car - before he demanded to get on the ground - seem to indicate that he was in a bad way already.  It isn't hard to believe that perhaps the position he was in or the pressure on him caused him to die slightly sooner, but I doubt it was the primary cause.

I believe the primary factor was the demonstrated overdose.  It is possible that had he cooperated with police and notified them that he thought he was ODing that they could have naloxoned him right away and saved his life.  When he decided to fight being put in the car and forced them to restrain him outside the vehicle until the ambulance could arrive, he probably aggravated the situation.  The cops restraining him unaware of his narcotic-induced respiratory depression didn't help either.  The crowd that surrounded the cops and started yelling at them forced the police to split attention and also probably made them dig in on their decisions.  I know a bunch of angry people cursing at me and demanding me to do something isn't likely to inspire me to carefully consider the merit of their position.

I've heard from unreliable sources that Chauvin didn't allow the ambulance to respond as quickly as they could, but I don't know the details about that, or if there is any truth to it at all.

French G.

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Re: Preparing For the Derek Chauvin Verdict
« Reply #172 on: May 05, 2021, 06:47:27 PM »

He said he couldn’t breathe while in the car because ever since Eric Garner that is as standard as Miranda rights in these interactions. All BS
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sumpnz

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Re: Preparing For the Derek Chauvin Verdict
« Reply #173 on: May 05, 2021, 08:47:10 PM »

The ambulance was delayed by the hostility of the crowd, not Chauvin, AFAIK.  When the paramedics arrived they stuffed Floyd in the van and drove a few miles away before even trying to treat him because of the crowd. 

Now, could Chauvin have done things differently to help de-escalate the crowd?  Was his apparent lack of concern the cause of the hostility of the crowd?  Had he played just a little to the cameras and made it look like he cared about Floyd surviving the encounter would anything have changed?  Who knows, but while I don’t think Chauvin meant Floyd any harm, and was following the training on how to restrain someone in excited delirium, his lack of understanding how he was going to be perceived in the publication of the video, and how to use those cameras to his advantage rather than detriment was a huge part of the problem. 
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