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Author Topic: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry  (Read 1801 times)

Ben

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Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« on: April 16, 2021, 05:35:01 PM »

Good for Texas, especially in these times. An interesting part of the story was the mention of police chiefs being against it as well as "firearm instructors". I assume the "firearm instructors" are the "niche" guys who focus on permit courses versus trainers who do a wide range of basic and defensive firearms and also offer permit courses as part of that.

I may be wrong, but  I don't think many Idaho police chiefs were against it when permitless carry passed here. Maybe the story only heard about the Texas police chiefs from bigger cities that might lean dem.

Quote
The Texas House on Thursday gave initial approval to a bill that would allow Texans to carry handguns without a permit or training.

After hours of debate, House Bill 1927, led by Rep. Matt Schaefer (R-Tyler.), passed 84–56 largely along party lines, in a blow to Democrats who have long railed against loosening gun laws after the 2019 mass shooting at an El Paso Walmart.

Texas has more than 1.6 million licensed handgun owners. But scrapping that required permit has been a long-sought goal of conservative activists in the Lone Star State. If approved, Texas would become the largest of some 20 states that already allow handguns to be carried in public without a permit.

“It’s time to restore faith in law-abiding Texans,” Schaefer said on the House floor. “This bill should be called common-sense carry.”

The Republican lawmaker argued that obtaining a permit is both time-consuming and costly—roughly between $100 and $150 per handgun license. Applicants must also go through criminal history and background checks.

Democrats pushing against the bill have been fighting for enhanced gun safety measures since the El Paso mass shooting that left 23 people dead.

“Even knowing the political realities, I was hopeful,” said Democratic state Rep. Joe Moody, whose district is in El Paso. “But now here we are, the first legislative session back since then, and it’s another date that’s going to be burned into my head.”

The measure has also drawn opposition from Texas police chiefs, as well as some firearm instructors who run licensing courses, who critics say have a financial incentive to oppose the change. The bill now goes to the Senate, where its prospects are uncertain.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/texas-house-gives-initial-approval-to-no-permit-carry-bill_3778465.html
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230RN

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2021, 06:00:28 PM »

Seems to me "common sense" gun control should be defined by a "common sense" reading of the Second Amendment.

I've heard mention of the notion that FFLs and the like in general, would not like to see ATF dismantled or any of the "big" gun control acts repealed, from '34 on. That's when I first heard the expression "breaking your own rice bowl."

I figure maybe the licensing (not the "shooting") instructors, (though there's an overlap), might feel the same way.  This is the first time I personally have heard that "suspicion" talked about openly.

Several years ago I heard some wag wish buying a gun was like buying a coffeepot. You pays yer money and you takes it home.

Terry, 230RN

Ben

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2021, 06:15:13 PM »


I figure maybe the licensing (not the "shooting") instructors, (though there's an overlap), might feel the same way.  This is the first time I personally have heard that "suspicion" talked about openly.

Regarding the instructors that focus their classes on any kind of CCW training requirements, I have seen pushback from them many times in many states. Instructors that teach a wide variety of classes, not so much, since stuff like permitless carry can actually attract business for them regarding defensive handgun classes.

That's the smart way to teach anyway. When you have, for example, CCW, defensive handgun 1, defensive handgun 2, etc., you have a ladder for repeat students. If all you do is the one "get your carry permit in 4 hours!" class, then you are one and done regarding students.
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Fly320s

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2021, 06:25:54 PM »


Several years ago I heard some wag wish buying a gun was like buying a coffeepot. You pays yer money and you takes it home.

That's how I view it.  Buying a gun should be like buying any other consumer product.
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Fly320s

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2021, 06:27:11 PM »

If Texas was as pro-gun as the Texans thought they were, Texas would have had constitutional carry first.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2021, 07:29:57 PM »

When Oklahoma went constitutional carry a few years ago one of the biggest opponents was the OSBI, they were loudly bemoaning the loss of revenue from permit fees. :mad:
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2021, 07:39:35 PM »

Good for Texas, especially in these times. An interesting part of the story was the mention of police chiefs being against it as well as "firearm instructors". I assume the "firearm instructors" are the "niche" guys who focus on permit courses versus trainers who do a wide range of basic and defensive firearms and also offer permit courses as part of that.


Basically correct. Texas requires requalification with live fire to renew carry permits, and the instructors who teach the courses 9and run the requals) have traditionally been vehemently opposed to any ideas that threaten their cash cow income stream.

Another example of how "gun guys" are often our own worst enemies.

Grandpa Shooter

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2021, 08:06:59 PM »

Good for Texas, especially in these times. An interesting part of the story was the mention of police chiefs being against it as well as "firearm instructors". I assume the "firearm instructors" are the "niche" guys who focus on permit courses versus trainers who do a wide range of basic and defensive firearms and also offer permit courses as part of that.

I may be wrong, but  I don't think many Idaho police chiefs were against it when permitless carry passed here. Maybe the story only heard about the Texas police chiefs from bigger cities that might lean dem.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/texas-house-gives-initial-approval-to-no-permit-carry-bill_3778465.html

I think you would find that the majority of big city cops are political hacks who parrot what they are told.  I have never in my years of watching street cops and working with one police force as a civilian, heard of any "on the streets" officers being for control.  When I worked as a range safety officer, many sworn officers wanted law abiding folks carrying, knowing it took some pressure off them.

MechAg94

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2021, 09:57:32 PM »

Basically correct. Texas requires requalification with live fire to renew carry permits, and the instructors who teach the courses 9and run the requals) have traditionally been vehemently opposed to any ideas that threaten their cash cow income stream.

Another example of how "gun guys" are often our own worst enemies.
We don't require re-qualification anymore.  You do the first class that includes shooting and then you just renew.  I just submitted my renewal online this month.  My picture and fingerprints were updated for my DL a couple years ago which might have been the only hang up.  The state LTC license fee was lowered to $40.  Both happened some years ago.

« Last Edit: April 16, 2021, 10:20:11 PM by MechAg94 »
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MechAg94

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2021, 10:18:39 PM »

If Texas was as pro-gun as the Texans thought they were, Texas would have had constitutional carry first.
From what I have seen, that is all in the minds of people in other states.   =D 

Gotta defend my state I guess.  =)  Texas is pro-gun IMO (gun ownership is high), but not nearly as libertarian leaning as I would like.  There have always been a lot of "there ought to be a law" types here that are conservative, but not necessarily libertarian.  The state was run by Democrats for over 100 years until the 90's.  We have made steady progress on gun rights and self defense laws ever since.  With the legislature only meeting every other year, that isn't a fast process.  In the last 10 or 15 years, have eliminated laws about traveling with guns (that took some effort), removed almost all restrictions on knives, clubs, hatchets, and brass knuckles. 


I am really hoping we can get Constitutional Carry passed.  At least it passed the House early enough in the session there should be plenty of time to push past any hang ups.  The TSRA has always had a fairly strong voice here, but the last few years GOA Texas has had Rachel Malone as the Texas Director and she is pretty active.  I am hopeful and need to make sure I contact my state Senator next week.  Passing this would be a huge win.  It will cap off all the pro-gun changes over the last 25 years.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2021, 10:54:23 PM by MechAg94 »
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Ron

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2021, 10:45:50 AM »

Indiana was on the cusp of going Constitutional Carry.

The state senate conservatives conserved the status quo and killed the bill by not giving it a hearing.

There is a possibility that the $75 lifetime carry permit cost will be reduced to zero, no cost.

The wish not to believe can influence as strongly as the wish to believe.

Who can escape their own cognitive biases?

Grandpa Shooter

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2021, 10:48:32 AM »

Indiana was on the cusp of going Constitutional Carry.

The state senate conservatives conserved the status quo and killed the bill by not giving it a hearing.

There is a possibility that the $75 lifetime carry permit cost will be reduced to zero, no cost.
Was this before or after the shooting at Fed Ex?

WLJ

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MechAg94

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2021, 03:58:52 PM »

Indiana was on the cusp of going Constitutional Carry.

The state senate conservatives conserved the status quo and killed the bill by not giving it a hearing.

There is a possibility that the $75 lifetime carry permit cost will be reduced to zero, no cost.
Maybe they can make a second go of it.  This is at least the 2nd time Constitutional Carry has come up in Texas.  The last session it seemed to have some support, but the Texas House leadership (no longer in office) was looking for an excuse to drop it and did.   I get the impression there is more support for it this time since it passed the house. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Hawkmoon

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2021, 11:28:09 PM »

Coincidence?

Permitless carry under discussion in Indiana ==> mass shooting in Indianapolis.

Permitless carry under discussion in Texas ==> mass shooting in Austin.

MechAg94

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2021, 07:26:30 AM »

Coincidence?

Permitless carry under discussion in Indiana ==> mass shooting in Indianapolis.

Permitless carry under discussion in Texas ==> mass shooting in Austin.
Do you think the guy in Austin might be a Brony also?
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2021, 12:24:31 AM »

Coincidence?

Permitless carry under discussion in Indiana ==> mass shooting in Indianapolis.

Permitless carry under discussion in Texas ==> mass shooting in Austin.

I'd point out that there's no way permit-less carry makes it easier to commit a mass shooting - only easier to stop one. But we all know that doesn't matter in politics.  :facepalm: :facepalm:
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Grandpa Shooter

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2021, 10:19:11 AM »

Coincidence?

Permitless carry under discussion in Indiana ==> mass shooting in Indianapolis.

Permitless carry under discussion in Texas ==> mass shooting in Austin.
I see that you figured that out also.  I was tracking that sort of stuff for a long time (since 1994) but finally realized it was not coincidental, and wasn't helping my blood pressure.

WLJ

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2021, 10:33:33 AM »

Could be argued that when things like permitless carry bills come up the MSM will tend to put a bit more focus on shootings
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WLJ

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2021, 11:46:55 AM »

Lt. Gov says they currently don't have the votes

Texas Lt. Governor Patrick Won’t Bring Constitutional Carry to the Floor If the Votes Aren’t There
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/texas-lt-governor-patrick-wont-bring-constitutional-carry-to-the-floor-if-the-votes-arent-there/
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MechAg94

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2021, 02:29:38 PM »

I will have to wait and see what others say about it.  At some point, I want them on record as voting against it, but there is still time to work on getting the votes.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Ben

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2021, 02:58:40 PM »

Lt. Gov says they currently don't have the votes

Texas Lt. Governor Patrick Won’t Bring Constitutional Carry to the Floor If the Votes Aren’t There
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/texas-lt-governor-patrick-wont-bring-constitutional-carry-to-the-floor-if-the-votes-arent-there/

What the heck is going on down there? Honestly, I would have expected Texas to be one of the first states on the bandwagon, not one of the last states.
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Ben

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"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Jim147

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2021, 09:54:18 PM »

BBQ guns.
Sometimes we carry more weight then we owe.
And sometimes goes on and on and on.

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