Author Topic: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry  (Read 9971 times)

Fly320s

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #100 on: June 06, 2021, 01:53:01 PM »
The whole calendar system is illogical when you get down to it.

And so is ..., time measurement, and compass/angle degree points.


I'll bite.  What is wrong in your mind with those systems?
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230RN

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #101 on: June 06, 2021, 01:59:43 PM »
The whole calendar system is illogical when you get down to it. Remember what happened when the French tried fixing that*?
And so is the Imperial measurement system or whatever it's called this week, time measurement, and compass/angle degree points.

*Including clocks

There are all kinds of confusions in all kinds of measurement systems.  Why not 100 degree circles and ten hour clocks?

One confusion in my mind is a case of the use of "a handgun" in our (Commierado's) permitting literature.  Does that prohibit the use of a backup piece?

Many states have explanations that use of the singular means any number, use of a date means any date thereafter, use of the male gender means females as well, et cetera.  I hope that exists in Colorado law, but I never delved into it in detail.

It concerned me because I used to carry a backup gun and didn't know if I was committing a technical violation.

Still relevant, K-Frame Ben*, since the Second Amendment uses the plural, and if we (Commierado) were "Constitutional Carry," backup guns would be OK, nicht wahr?

roffle

Terry, 230RN

* Oops, sorry.  Note the German, a nod to Ben's heritage.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2021, 08:07:56 AM by 230RN »

K Frame

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #102 on: June 08, 2021, 07:49:44 AM »
"Still relevant, K-Frame,"

Say what now? I don't think I've posted in this thread before this....
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230RN

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #103 on: June 08, 2021, 08:08:29 AM »
^ Correction made, and thanks.

Glad at least one person is reading my stuff.   =D

Terry
« Last Edit: June 08, 2021, 08:20:53 AM by 230RN »

MechAg94

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #104 on: June 08, 2021, 04:52:22 PM »
Two thieves stole a calendar a few months ago.   


They both got 6 months. 

 =)
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WLJ

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #105 on: June 25, 2021, 03:11:43 PM »
Louisiana has passed Constitutional Carry BUT the Gov has said he will Veto it. It remains to be seen if we can overturn a veto. My money says they can't overturn his veto. :mad: :'(

Yep

Louisiana Governor John Bel Edwards Vetoes Constitutional Carry Bill
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/louisiana-governor-john-bel-edwards-vetoes-constitutional-carry-bill/
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #106 on: June 25, 2021, 03:15:02 PM »
Lame.
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RocketMan

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #107 on: June 25, 2021, 05:05:32 PM »
Lame.

Well, the other 21 states with permitless carry have blood running in the streets, so...
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

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MechAg94

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #108 on: June 26, 2021, 09:04:14 AM »
There are all kinds of confusions in all kinds of measurement systems.  Why not 100 degree circles and ten hour clocks?

One confusion in my mind is a case of the use of "a handgun" in our (Commierado's) permitting literature.  Does that prohibit the use of a backup piece?

Many states have explanations that use of the singular means any number, use of a date means any date thereafter, use of the male gender means females as well, et cetera.  I hope that exists in Colorado law, but I never delved into it in detail.

It concerned me because I used to carry a backup gun and didn't know if I was committing a technical violation.

Still relevant, K-Frame Ben*, since the Second Amendment uses the plural, and if we (Commierado) were "Constitutional Carry," backup guns would be OK, nicht wahr?

roffle

Terry, 230RN

* Oops, sorry.  Note the German, a nod to Ben's heritage.
I wasn't sure so I looked it up.  Another link included some other possible origins, but ancient astronomy makes a lot of sense.  The 12 hour day/month is based out of that also. 

https://www.physlink.com/Education/Askexperts/ae373.cfm
Quote
It was during the reign of Nebuchadnezzar (605-562 BC) in the Chaldean dynasty in Babylon that the circle was divided into 360 degrees. This was because the Chaldeans had calculated by observation and inference that a complete year numbered 360 days. The basis of angular measure for the mathematicians of Babylon was the angle at each of the corners of an equilateral triangle. They did not have decimal fractions and thus found it difficult to deal with remainders when doing division. So they agreed to divide the corner of an equilateral triangle into 60 degrees, because 60 could be divided by 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 without remainder. Each degree was divided into 60 minutes and each minute into 60 seconds. If the angles at the corners of six equilateral triangles are placed together they form the angle formed by a complete circle. It is for this reason that there are six times 60 degrees of arc in the complete circle.
Setting up a system where the math can be done with whole numbers makes a lot of sense, most especially when you have to do it in your head. 

There were plenty of other links that went into a lot more.  Seems there is a great deal of history around that issue.
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MechAg94

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #109 on: June 29, 2021, 02:36:51 PM »
I got hold of a Texas Constitutional Carry guide done by US Law Shield.  It is in PDF.  Not sure how to put it up for download, but I can email it if anyone wants to see it. 

Someone who is not a resident of Texas can carry.   

It apparently only applies to handguns which is odd, but rifles were already allowed for open carry. 
The guide says typical "no guns" type signs can be enforced as well  as a new 30.05 sign.  A specific 30.06 signage is the only sign that is effective for LTC holders. 
There may be an issue being within 1000 feet of a school since existing law only makes an exception for LTC holders. 

There is a list of 14 or so places carry is not allowed.  Sucks but something that ought to be fixed.  I don't remember the LTC restrictions being that long. 
Schools, Polling Places, Courts, Racetracks, Secured area of airports, within 1000 feet of a place of execution, Bars (51% location), Proff sporting events, Correctional Facilities, civil commitment facilities, Hospitals/nursing homes, mental hospitals, amusement parks, room of an open meeting of a govt entity. 


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MillCreek

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #110 on: June 29, 2021, 02:39:21 PM »
^^^Racetracks?  Hmm.
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MechAg94

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #111 on: June 29, 2021, 03:26:55 PM »
^^^Racetracks?  Hmm.
Similar to a sporting event maybe?

I get the impression that when the opposition doesn't like a bill, but can't stop it, the game then becomes "How many BS rules and exceptions can we insert". 
« Last Edit: June 29, 2021, 03:39:39 PM by MechAg94 »
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #112 on: June 29, 2021, 03:29:29 PM »
List looks like the same one used for LTC restrictions.

Brad
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MechAg94

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #113 on: June 29, 2021, 03:42:52 PM »
List looks like the same one used for LTC restrictions.

Brad
The two key differences to me:
1.  The deal about having a gun within 1000 feet of a school.  Apparently the law that allowed an LTC holder to keep their gun in the parking lot specifically said LTC holders and may not apply to constitutional carry. 

2.  Generic no-guns signs will legally apply where those were meaningless to an LTC holder.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #114 on: June 29, 2021, 04:07:04 PM »

There may be an issue being within 1000 feet of a school since existing law only makes an exception for LTC holders. 


That's definitely an issue, and not just for Texas or even for all "constitutional carry" states. It's also an issue with reciprocity.

The issue is the federal Gun Free School Zones Act, which makes it a federal felony to possess a firearm (maybe only applies to handguns -- I don't remember) within 1,000 feet of a school property. The exception to which you refer is for holders of a carry license/permit, but it has to be issued by the state in which the school is located. Reciprocal recognition by one state of your home state permit doesn't provide protection under the GFSZ Act.

And, of course, your point is spot on -- constitutional carry is no help under the federal GFSZ Act.
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MechAg94

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #115 on: June 30, 2021, 08:44:44 AM »
It has been legal to have a concealed firearm in your car for a few years now.  That has never come up to my knowledge.  Maybe because it is concealed.  I doubt it will come up with Constitutional Carry either, but I guess it could. 

Never heard of anyone jogging or walking past a school while open carrying. 
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #116 on: June 30, 2021, 09:31:44 AM »
It has been legal to have a concealed firearm in your car for a few years now.  That has never come up to my knowledge.  Maybe because it is concealed.  I doubt it will come up with Constitutional Carry either, but I guess it could. 

Never heard of anyone jogging or walking past a school while open carrying. 

Castle Doctrine thing. Your vehicle is considered an extension of your home, thus you are within your rights to have a firearm in it regardless of carry license status.

Brad
« Last Edit: June 30, 2021, 10:26:45 AM by Brad Johnson »
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #117 on: June 30, 2021, 10:11:53 AM »

Never heard of anyone jogging or walking past a school while open carrying.

The federal GFSZ law isn't limited to open carry, and it isn't limited to pedestrians.

https://handgunlaw.us/documents/BATFLetterONGFSZ2013.pdf

18 U.S.C. 922 (scroll down to (q) for the GFSZA):

https://law.justia.com/codes/us/2010/title18/parti/chap44/sec922/

Quote
(q)(1) The Congress finds and declares that—

(A) crime, particularly crime involving drugs and guns, is a pervasive, nationwide problem;

(B) crime at the local level is exacerbated by the interstate movement of drugs, guns, and criminal gangs;

(C) firearms and ammunition move easily in interstate commerce and have been found in increasing numbers in and around schools, as documented in numerous hearings in both the Committee on the Judiciary 3 the House of Representatives and the Committee on the Judiciary of the Senate;

(D) in fact, even before the sale of a firearm, the gun, its component parts, ammunition, and the raw materials from which they are made have considerably moved in interstate commerce;

(E) while criminals freely move from State to State, ordinary citizens and foreign visitors may fear to travel to or through certain parts of the country due to concern about violent crime and gun violence, and parents may decline to send their children to school for the same reason;

(F) the occurrence of violent crime in school zones has resulted in a decline in the quality of education in our country;

(G) this decline in the quality of education has an adverse impact on interstate commerce and the foreign commerce of the United States;

(H) States, localities, and school systems find it almost impossible to handle gun-related crime by themselves—even States, localities, and school systems that have made strong efforts to prevent, detect, and punish gun-related crime find their efforts unavailing due in part to the failure or inability of other States or localities to take strong measures; and

(I) the Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce clause and other provisions of the Constitution, to enact measures to ensure the integrity and safety of the Nation's schools by enactment of this subsection.

(2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

(iii) that is—

(I) not loaded; and

(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;

(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;

(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or

(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.

(3)(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be unlawful for any person, knowingly or with reckless disregard for the safety of another, to discharge or attempt to discharge a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the person knows is a school zone.

(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the discharge of a firearm—

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

(ii) as part of a program approved by a school in the school zone, by an individual who is participating in the program;

(iii) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in a school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual; or

(iv) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity.

(4) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed as preempting or preventing a State or local government from enacting a statute establishing gun free school zones as provided in this subsection.

(r) It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to—

(1) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or

(2) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Attorney General.
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WLJ

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #118 on: July 05, 2021, 11:09:41 AM »
I can hear them screaming now "The blood in the streets has started"
From what I see Darwin scores again!

Long story short guy with his family in the car shoots man approaching his car with a gun after road rage incident.
Photo of the guy shot tells me a lot about his personality.

Driver Shoots, Kills Armed Motorcyclist Who Came Towards Him On I-35, Fort Worth Police Say
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKfS3CaFTVg
« Last Edit: July 05, 2021, 07:55:51 PM by WLJ »
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #119 on: July 05, 2021, 12:33:02 PM »
Couple of our local news stations are running stories and posting them to FB every chance they get. They aren't terrible in terms of bias, but it's definitely lurking under the surface. It's obvious they're mining for FB comments supporting a repeal of the new law, but the majority comments keep coming back in support of the new (a thin majority, but a majority nonetheless). As expected, the "ERMAGHURD BLOOD IN THE STREETS!!" crowd is parroting all the usual blather.

Brad
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #120 on: July 05, 2021, 12:36:43 PM »
I don't know if the motor vehicle laws on this are uniform throughout all 50 states. In my state, it's illegal for motorcyclists to ride between lanes. That don't stop the punks on crotch rockets from doing it, but it is illegal.

It sounds to me like this was a case of Darwin's law being proved by real life results.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #121 on: July 05, 2021, 12:38:31 PM »
The two key differences to me:
1.  The deal about having a gun within 1000 feet of a school.  Apparently the law that allowed an LTC holder to keep their gun in the parking lot specifically said LTC holders and may not apply to constitutional carry...

Same thing we have in MO. There are a number of situations where it's illegal to carry, but there's an exemption for those with permits.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #122 on: July 05, 2021, 12:43:46 PM »
Same thing we have in MO. There are a number of situations where it's illegal to carry, but there's an exemption for those with permits.

Having a gun in your car isn't tied to a Texas LTC. It's an extension of the Castle Doctrine laws. Your car is considered an extension of your home no matter LTC status where the vehicle is parked, so having a gun in it is okie dokie (unless it's federal property or in a Native American territory, then you're SOL). At least that's the law as I understand it, bit IANAL, YMMV, etc, etc.

*Edit to add* Found the relevant law. It's Texas HB 1815 represented under Texas Penal Code 46.02(a)(2)(b). Straight up states any Texan who can legally own a firearm can have it in their vehicle or watercraft so long as it's concealed and they aren't engaged in criminal activity.

Brad
« Last Edit: July 05, 2021, 02:14:22 PM by Brad Johnson »
It's all about the pancakes, people.
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MechAg94

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #123 on: July 05, 2021, 01:18:18 PM »
I am still curious if the school issue would ever come up resulting from a traffic stop or some other circumstance. 

The jogging/walking scenario I bought up was just brainstorming.  I can't think of much other way it would come up without it being tied to some other offense.  Either way, I think it is unlikely.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Texas is Going for Permitless Carry
« Reply #124 on: July 05, 2021, 02:29:30 PM »

*Edit to add* Found the relevant law. It's Texas HB 1815 represented under Texas Penal Code 46.02(a)(2)(b). Straight up states any Texan who can legally own a firearm can have it in their vehicle or watercraft so long as it's concealed and they aren't engaged in criminal activity.


This law does not provide any protection against the federal GFSZA law. The exception in the federal law very clearly applies to those who hold a license issued by the state in which the school is located. A state law that allows possession of a loaded firearm without a license obviously doesn't seem to satisfy this.

Any lawyers present? Does a state law such as this constitute "license" under the language of the GFSZA?

Quote
(q)(1)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a
  firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to
  believe, is a school zone.
  `(B) Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to the possession of a firearm--
  `(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
  `(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by
  the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision
  of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires
  that, before an individual obtain such a license, the law enforcement
  authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual
  is qualified under law to receive the license;

  `(iii) which is--
  `(I) not loaded; and
  `(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack which is in a
  motor vehicle;
  `(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the
  school zone;
  `(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between
  a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the
  individual;
  `(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
  `(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing
  school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private
  lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by
  school authorities.

My understanding is that the qualification means a criminal background check, and Texas Penal Code 46.02(a)(2)(b) doesn't require a background check.
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