Author Topic: How Dare Israel...  (Read 3745 times)

French G.

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Re: How Dare Israel...
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2021, 11:47:11 PM »
We can absolutely pick a side. I'm not one who thinks Israel is our greatest ally by any stretch but we have on one side a relatively free society that acts to first world standards. One all the world powers helped bring into being mainly because they didn't want the Jews either. On the other we have terrorists. Tired of the moral equivalence BS.

As a country we could start by not sending the PA and Iran a dime. Crushing sanctions and more of them. Same with China, don't do business with them. I guess we can turn a blind eye to attempts at genocide, but not like it will stop when there is no Jew in the world. They'd rather be attacking us anyway, Israel is just more convenient.
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

Nick1911

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Re: How Dare Israel...
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2021, 01:00:44 AM »

Wait,  that's an option?  RPGs are really handy,  if they're just going to hand them out..

Ehh, I'm holding out for a strela-2.   [ar15]

Andiron

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Re: How Dare Israel...
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2021, 10:44:24 PM »
Ehh, I'm holding out for a strela-2.   [ar15]

SAMs have their place,  I'd love a pallet of them for anti drone use.  RPGs are more utilitarian.
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Ron

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Re: How Dare Israel...
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2021, 07:19:53 AM »
I promise, this is not the one land dispute in the mideast that it makes sense to pick sides.

The extant to which this isn't our problem can not be overstated.

Short, pithy and 100% correct.
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

MechAg94

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Re: How Dare Israel...
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2021, 09:26:32 AM »
At some point, I would be in favor of just telling both sides to fight as long as they want and stay out of it until they are done. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Ben

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Re: How Dare Israel...
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2021, 09:31:02 AM »
I'm fine with the US staying out of it, which also means not nagging Israel.

As a private citizen though, I get to choose sides. So when I see Hamas using human shields, and Israel sending out countless warnings before they destroy infrastructure, and Israel just wanting to be left alone while Hamas calls for its extinction, I can decide which side more closely aligns with my own philosophy.
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Angel Eyes

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Re: How Dare Israel...
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2021, 07:49:19 PM »
IDF takes out Hamas rocket site:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-gL21TynZc

Politics aside (yeah right), I must say I'm impressed with the precision of the strike.
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Andiron

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Re: How Dare Israel...
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2021, 09:50:40 PM »
Quote
“Whenever the standard of freedom and independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will be America’s heart, her benedictions and her prayers. But she does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the wellwisher to freedom and independence for all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. She well knows that by once enlisting other banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extridition, in all wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy and ambition which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom….She might become the dictress of the world but would no longer be ruler of her own spirit….Americans should not go abroad to slay dragons they do not understand in the name of spreading democracy.”

John Quincy Adams

Any would be politician in the country should be forced to memorize this quotes and those like it from the Founders.  Wise men.

Entangling alliances have us good and truly boned.
"Leftism destroys everything good." -  Ron

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MechAg94

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Re: How Dare Israel...
« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2021, 09:58:58 PM »
Good quote.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

TommyGunn

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Re: How Dare Israel...
« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2021, 11:21:52 PM »
Any would be politician in the country should be forced to memorize this quotes and those like it from the Founders.  Wise men.

Entangling alliances have us good and truly boned.

So .... in a situation where a allied nation is defending against a terrorist group .... we should be neutral? ? ? ???
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

WLJ

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Re: How Dare Israel...
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2021, 09:18:34 AM »
Cue the meltdown

Quote
Breaking911
@Breaking911
President Biden pledges to "replenish Israel's Iron Dome system to ensure its defenses and security in the future."
https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2021/05/20/uh-oh-bidens-pledge-about-israels-iron-dome-defense-system-is-guaranteed-to-spark-a-lefty-meltdown/

Now wait a minute, it's manufactured in Israel so how is Biden plan on replenishing it? Oh that's right $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
But by afternoon he never said it anyway
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MechAg94

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Re: How Dare Israel...
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2021, 09:56:15 AM »
So .... in a situation where a allied nation is defending against a terrorist group .... we should be neutral? ? ? ???
I think our allies have the ability to take care of their own problems.  We may support them (which we do for Israel), but I think that is all that is necessary.  I would say the same about Yemen. 

I think that quote applies quite nicely to our national adventures in Afghanistan and Iraq.  Our leadership got our military bogged down trying to establish democracy amongst a bunch of Muslim tribes instead of focusing on a few basic goals and getting out.  20 years occupying a foreign country now.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

TommyGunn

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Re: How Dare Israel...
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2021, 10:17:24 AM »
I think our allies have the ability to take care of their own problems.  We may support them (which we do for Israel), but I think that is all that is necessary.  I would say the same about Yemen. 

I think that quote applies quite nicely to our national adventures in Afghanistan and Iraq.  Our leadership got our military bogged down trying to establish democracy amongst a bunch of Muslim tribes instead of focusing on a few basic goals and getting out.  20 years occupying a foreign country now.

While I do not defend some our our military  adventures (think Iraq) and others were well-motivated but poorly prosecuted,  I remain skeptical of the idea that "our allies have the ability to take care of their own problems,"  atleast as a universal statement.  We were allied with England in the early 20th century,  yet,  were they really able to defeat the Third Reich without our help? ?   
Our experience in WW1 soured us (naturally)  to European wars to the degree Churchill quiped, "you can always count on America to do the right thing .... after they try everything else first." 
Even the Japanese had invaded much of the western Pacific countries .... and we got annoyed and embargoed oil and steel. 

But the Dec. 7th 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor,  and Hitler's declaration of war on America quickly thereafter  destroyed any illusion of noninterference or neutrality we had.

We needed the alliances we had to prosecute the war against Tojo and Hitler.

If we are today, to remain neutral in a world "Governed by the aggressive use of force," as Rush Limbaugh correctly pointed out,  we'd be well advised to maintain a sufficient military to defeat a major enemy such as a bigger, badder China without the need of allies ..... for we might wind up with few of those.
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

MechAg94

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Re: How Dare Israel...
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2021, 11:24:17 AM »
While I do not defend some our our military  adventures (think Iraq) and others were well-motivated but poorly prosecuted,  I remain skeptical of the idea that "our allies have the ability to take care of their own problems,"  atleast as a universal statement.  We were allied with England in the early 20th century,  yet,  were they really able to defeat the Third Reich without our help? ?   
Our experience in WW1 soured us (naturally)  to European wars to the degree Churchill quiped, "you can always count on America to do the right thing .... after they try everything else first." 
Even the Japanese had invaded much of the western Pacific countries .... and we got annoyed and embargoed oil and steel. 

But the Dec. 7th 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor,  and Hitler's declaration of war on America quickly thereafter  destroyed any illusion of noninterference or neutrality we had.

We needed the alliances we had to prosecute the war against Tojo and Hitler.

If we are today, to remain neutral in a world "Governed by the aggressive use of force," as Rush Limbaugh correctly pointed out,  we'd be well advised to maintain a sufficient military to defeat a major enemy such as a bigger, badder China without the need of allies ..... for we might wind up with few of those.
Terror attacks on an ally was mentioned which is what I was addressing, not all out war by someone like Nazi Germany. 

I guess I did not read the quote as meaning we should have NO alliances or NEVER help allies, but we should do so reluctantly and be weary of getting entangled in foreign wars.  I don't know if there was a way to avoid the cold war with the Soviets after WWII, but that is another mess we got entangled in for a quite some time.  Perhaps future historians might have better access to records of all that and a different perspective.
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TommyGunn

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Re: How Dare Israel...
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2021, 01:59:47 PM »
Right ....

But right now it seems there's a minor low level brouhaha over replenishing the IRON DOME missiles Israel has used in the past week plus of Hamas  attacks.  "The Squad",  being antisemitic and, well,  commie pinko stupid, are arguing we should not give Israel anything.  This is symptomatic of  a  small part of what I'm saying.  I don't think we need to go over there and stomp Hamas,  certainly Israel is very capable of doing that,  but we should certainly be helpful in replenishing ordnance. 

But sooner or later,  I think, we're headed for conflict, most likely with China.  And it won't be like A'Stan or Iraq.  It could be more like WW2 ....with actual ramifications for us, here, in America.
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

MechAg94

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Re: How Dare Israel...
« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2021, 02:31:49 PM »

But sooner or later,  I think, we're headed for conflict, most likely with China.  And it won't be like A'Stan or Iraq.  It could be more like WW2 ....with actual ramifications for us, here, in America.

Perhaps.  I think it is more likely with leftists undermining our military with social justice crap and other nonsense to the point there is a perception of weakness.  Not to mention too many politicians and others who seem to be financially beholden to China.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

WLJ

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Re: How Dare Israel...
« Reply #41 on: May 21, 2021, 02:36:04 PM »
Right ....

But right now it seems there's a minor low level brouhaha over replenishing the IRON DOME missiles Israel has used in the past week plus of Hamas  attacks. 

As I stated in my post above to the best of my knowledge Iron Dome is manufactured in Israel so I'm not sure how we're going to replenishing it except maybe with $$$$.


"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
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TommyGunn

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Re: How Dare Israel...
« Reply #42 on: May 21, 2021, 06:49:54 PM »
As I stated in my post above to the best of my knowledge Iron Dome is manufactured in Israel so I'm not sure how we're going to replenishing it except maybe with $$$$.

I can't say I know where the missiles are made.  It would not surprise me if they were made in Israel because I do think they have the technical ability to make them ..... but otoh I did hear that news report and I wasn't making it up of whole cloth.   It could be what Trump called "fake news? ?"    =|
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

Andiron

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Re: How Dare Israel...
« Reply #43 on: May 21, 2021, 09:29:54 PM »
So .... in a situation where a allied nation is defending against a terrorist group .... we should be neutral? ? ? ???

Yep.  Couldn't possibly care less, and spare me the neocon callback to WW2, it's not remotely relevant or comparable.

While we're at it,  What national interest does it serve to be allied with Israel?  Alliances should be mutually beneficial.  All we get is grief and debt.

THAT being said,  the Izzys can push the Palestinians into the sea for all I care.  The Palis are generally aholes, but they also have a legitimate beef.  Let them and Israel sort it out without us.

"Leftism destroys everything good." -  Ron

There is no fixing stupid. But, you can line it up in front of a wall and offer it a last smoke.

There is no such thing as a "transgender" person.  Only mental illness that should be discouraged.

Andiron

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Re: How Dare Israel...
« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2021, 09:31:44 PM »
Good quote.

That and plenty more that the oligarchy in this country happily ignore  :P
"Leftism destroys everything good." -  Ron

There is no fixing stupid. But, you can line it up in front of a wall and offer it a last smoke.

There is no such thing as a "transgender" person.  Only mental illness that should be discouraged.

TommyGunn

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Re: How Dare Israel...
« Reply #45 on: May 21, 2021, 10:33:04 PM »
Yep.  Couldn't possibly care less, and spare me the neocon callback to WW2, it's not remotely relevant or comparable.

While we're at it,  What national interest does it serve to be allied with Israel?  Alliances should be mutually beneficial.  All we get is grief and debt.

THAT being said,  the Izzys can push the Palestinians into the sea for all I care.  The Palis are generally aholes, but they also have a legitimate beef.  Let them and Israel sort it out without us.

Good to know where you stand on the matter of good vs. evil. >:D
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

Andiron

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Re: How Dare Israel...
« Reply #46 on: May 21, 2021, 10:54:38 PM »
Good to know where you stand on the matter of good vs. evil. >:D

I got buffaloed by that same bullshit argument out of highschool and wasted 4 years of my life in the USMC,  don't even try me.
"Leftism destroys everything good." -  Ron

There is no fixing stupid. But, you can line it up in front of a wall and offer it a last smoke.

There is no such thing as a "transgender" person.  Only mental illness that should be discouraged.

TommyGunn

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Re: How Dare Israel...
« Reply #47 on: May 21, 2021, 11:13:59 PM »
Sorry you feel that way. 
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

Andiron

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Re: How Dare Israel...
« Reply #48 on: May 21, 2021, 11:20:20 PM »
I at least stood for my misguided convictions.  What's your excuse?
"Leftism destroys everything good." -  Ron

There is no fixing stupid. But, you can line it up in front of a wall and offer it a last smoke.

There is no such thing as a "transgender" person.  Only mental illness that should be discouraged.

Andiron

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Re: How Dare Israel...
« Reply #49 on: May 21, 2021, 11:28:37 PM »
TommyGunn, You were happy to throw "BUT WHAT ABOUT OUR ALLY" in my face, but you haven't responded to my answer.  So I'll post it again.

Quote
While we're at it,  What national interest does it serve to be allied with Israel?  Alliances should be mutually beneficial.  All we get is grief and debt.

I'd love an answer to this, because for the life of me, I can't find one.
"Leftism destroys everything good." -  Ron

There is no fixing stupid. But, you can line it up in front of a wall and offer it a last smoke.

There is no such thing as a "transgender" person.  Only mental illness that should be discouraged.