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Author Topic: Why Juneteenth?  (Read 1036 times)

Hawkmoon

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Why Juneteenth?
« on: June 17, 2021, 11:13:09 PM »

I don't get it. We have Martin Luther King Day. If we really needed a day to celebrate the end of slavery, why would it be the date when the news reached a particular city in a particular state, rather than the date of the Emancipation Proclamation?

This makes zero sense to me.

WLJ

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Why Juneteenth?
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2021, 12:41:13 AM »

This is a lot like complaining that Christmas should be celebrated on some other day, because Jesus was likely not born on that specific date. It's a lot of complaining for no good reason.

The better question is, why haven't we had a national holiday to celebrate the end of slavery before now? Why did it take a pack of racist Democrats in 2020/2021 to do something that real anti-racists, real Americans should have done already?

And for what it's worth, the Emancipation Proclamation did not end slavery in America. If anyone was taught such, the teacher was confused. It only freed slaves in newly-retaken Confederate territory. Slavery was (legally) ended by a later amendment of the constitution.
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cordex

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Re: Why Juneteenth?
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2021, 06:01:34 AM »

And for what it's worth, the Emancipation Proclamation did not end slavery in America. If anyone was taught such, the teacher was confused. It only freed slaves in newly-retaken Confederate territory. Slavery was (legally) ended by a later amendment of the constitution.
Then again, the Emancipation Proclamation directly freed considerably more slaves - though delayed until it could be enforced - than the Thirteenth Amendment.

dogmush

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Re: Why Juneteenth?
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2021, 06:22:58 AM »

I [gulp] agree with Perd.  Slaves were freed in America over the course of a couple years. Which exact date is kinda irrelevant. The ending of legal slavery in the US should be celebrated.

June 19, as the day the "last" Africans were reached by liberating forces is as good as any other.

A more relevant question is why question which day they picked? Just because you don't like the party that picked it?

TechMan

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Re: Why Juneteenth?
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2021, 07:42:57 AM »

I [gulp] agree with Perd. Slaves were freed in America over the course of a couple years. Which exact date is kinda irrelevant. The ending of legal slavery in the US should be celebrated.

June 19, as the day the "last" Africans were reached by liberating forces is as good as any other.

A more relevant question is why question which day they picked? Just because you don't like the party that picked it?

Well *expletive deleted*it, there goes the universe.  I also agree with Perd.
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French G.

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Re: Why Juneteenth?
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2021, 09:56:29 AM »

It is a retcon. Until recently it was a very understated and in many places unknown day. It is pushed now because we’re all racists and orange man bad. Remember that many people first learned the holiday because trump was an evil mastermind to have a white supremacy speech when we should have been celebrating Juneteenth and remembering Tulsa. At least it is a real holiday but in sudden significance it is as manufactured as Kwanzaa.
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WLJ

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Re: Why Juneteenth?
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2021, 10:09:59 AM »

It is a retcon. Until recently it was a very understated and in many places unknown day. It is pushed now because we’re all racists and orange man bad. Remember that many people first learned the holiday because trump was an evil mastermind to have a white supremacy speech when we should have been celebrating Juneteenth and remembering Tulsa. At least it is a real holiday but in sudden significance it is as manufactured as Kwanzaa.

Yeah, just about everything I'm seeing on Juneteenth gives me the impression that instead of being a day of celebration for all Americas which it should be it's largely morphed into just another excuse, as if they needed another, to remind whites how unforgivably racist they still are. That's my only beef with it, otherwise I'm all for it.
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MechAg94

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Re: Why Juneteenth?
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2021, 10:37:31 AM »

Juneteenth has been around down in the Houston area for quite a long time.  I recall local news talking about it when I was young if my memory is working.  I always heard it was supposed to be when news of the emancipation proclamation reach Galveston, TX and other nearby ports so it was over several days.  I always thought it was a local thing.   

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TommyGunn

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Re: Why Juneteenth?
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2021, 10:46:52 AM »

I [gulp] agree with Perd.  Slaves were freed in America over the course of a couple years. Which exact date is kinda irrelevant. The ending of legal slavery in the US should be celebrated.

June 19, as the day the "last" Africans were reached by liberating forces is as good as any other.

A more relevant question is why question which day they picked? Just because you don't like the party that picked it?

That's good enough for me. >:D  But it has a lot to do with the two twits at the top of the .... "party."   :mad:  [barf] [barf] [barf] [barf]
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Angel Eyes

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Re: Why Juneteenth?
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2021, 10:51:51 AM »

"Tastes kind-of like cherry cough syrup and swimming-pool water, with a hint of puke."
                   - Paul Harrell describes Red Bull

TommyGunn

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Re: Why Juneteenth?
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2021, 10:55:52 AM »



Now,  there's   something I can get behind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >:D =D
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French G.

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Re: Why Juneteenth?
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2021, 11:23:14 AM »

Kente cloth pandering for votes. Anything to keep the news cycle off of minorities giving up on the dems.

Or let’s put it this way, only local mention I heard this year for Juneteenth is a local restaurant owned by SJWs doing something for it. How do I know they are SJWs? Advertising a vaccine clinic at the restaurant. Yeah... wanna bet on their melanin levels? Virtue signaling bs.
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Ben

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Re: Why Juneteenth?
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2021, 11:24:20 AM »

I'm pretty sure last year, maybe the year before, was the first I had ever even heard of Juneteenth.
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French G.

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Re: Why Juneteenth?
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2021, 12:16:09 PM »

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=Juneteenth
Google Trends on the term.

You want to emphasize what holiday you find important that is what America is all about. This though is the perfect crime. No public figure can come out and say we didn’t even know about the holiday two years ago. Racist. Overton window moved.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2021, 01:47:23 PM by French G. »
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dogmush

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Re: Why Juneteenth?
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2021, 12:31:07 PM »

I believe we had a thread on this before (it really seems familiar), and showed that it was reasonably well known prior to the current buzz.  It seems like it was regional (to the south) and Cultural (to predominantly black communities), but once it hit twitter all the lily-white liberals that don't actually know any black folks had to google it.

It's certainly been a thing I was aware of for at least two decades in central FL.  Pretty much all the churches around here have some sort of big thing, and there are usually a block party in one of the 'hoods.  I also remember Juneteenth being a thing at the community center on Ft Richardson when I lived there as a kid in the late 80's.  I guess the Army was just being super woke back then as well.

Even with the regional and sub-cultural ties I wouldn't have called Juneteenth (pre 2018) any more obscure than Día de los Muertos.


If you think it gives [scary voice] The Other Side [/scary voice] the ability to call you racist, then perhaps stop grumbling and go to one of the picnics tomorrow.  Around here you want to try the ribs and the smoked mullet, although I suspect the good dishes are regional as well.

Ben

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Re: Why Juneteenth?
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2021, 12:37:07 PM »

I believe we had a thread on this before (it really seems familiar), and showed that it was reasonably well known prior to the current buzz.  It seems like it was regional (to the south) and Cultural (to predominantly black communities), but once it hit twitter all the lily-white liberals that don't actually know any black folks had to google it.


I may have been that thread starter as I remember starting one here because I hadn't heard of it before it hit the news so much. Even in my old uber liberal California field office, I don't ever recall hearing the term, so it must have been regional until the last couple of years. I also don't recall seeing fed.gov employee emails about it that I remember. Though they always sent out so many "celebrate 'X' month" emails that I never really paid attention and just hit delete.

EDIT: Yes, I did a thread:
https://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=62426.0
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zxcvbob

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Re: Why Juneteenth?
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2021, 12:50:11 PM »

I grew up near Houston, so have known about and low-key-celebrated Juneteenth for a long time.  (Usually have watermelon and barbecued chicken)  I don't go to any parties because they are not my party, but I celebrate with them in spirit just the same.  It's annoying that a bunch of racist Democrats have coopted the day to pander to Yankee blacks that never even heard of Juneteenth until a year or two ago -- but it's still a good holiday.

ETA: "Even in my old uber liberal California field office, I don't ever recall hearing the term, so it must have been regional until the last couple of years."  It's a regional holiday that I think started in Houston, Texas; I believe at Emancipation Park.  It has been a state holiday for several (I don't know how many) years.
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Bogie

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Re: Why Juneteenth?
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2021, 12:59:54 PM »

Just remember - if you have a conversation at work about it... "Oh, that's when the Republicans freed the slaves."
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WLJ

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Re: Why Juneteenth?
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2021, 01:03:12 PM »

Just remember - if you have a conversation at work about it... "Oh, that's when the Republicans freed the slaves."

from the democrats. Trouble is the dems have since figured out a work-around.
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griz

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Re: Why Juneteenth?
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2021, 04:00:23 PM »

I don't get it. We have Martin Luther King Day. If we really needed a day to celebrate the end of slavery, why would it be the date when the news reached a particular city in a particular state, rather than the date of the Emancipation Proclamation?

This makes zero sense to me.

The end of slavery was indeed a gradual thing.  Part of it was communication, for instance there were US citizens that didn't know the Civil war was over until months afterward.  And partly it was because there were still slaves in a couple northern states after June 19th that weren't freed until the 13th amendment.  But since the end of slavery in this country is worth celebrating we might as well use a date that has some historical basis as being celebrated already, and for a long time Juneteenth has been that date with people who were directly affected.  It was even made a state holiday in Texas in 1980, so it's not something they just come up with off the top of their heads.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Why Juneteenth?
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2021, 05:16:15 PM »

The end of slavery was indeed a gradual thing.  Part of it was communication, for instance there were US citizens that didn't know the Civil war was over until months afterward.  And partly it was because there were still slaves in a couple northern states after June 19th that weren't freed until the 13th amendment.  But since the end of slavery in this country is worth celebrating we might as well use a date that has some historical basis as being celebrated already, and for a long time Juneteenth has been that date with people who were directly affected.  It was even made a state holiday in Texas in 1980, so it's not something they just come up with off the top of their heads.

Yes, this.

I already knew about Juneteenth, but then I already knew the word "dotard." The two things that made me feel smart in the past 5 years.

Oh, I forgot about voting for President OrangeManBad in 2016, and not buying into all the anti-Trump hoaxes since then. So I guess I should feel real smart, then.   :lol:

Also, conspiracy bro at work seems convinced there will be Juneteenth-related violence. I haven't yet figured out if that's racist, or just realist.  =(
« Last Edit: June 18, 2021, 06:25:37 PM by Perd Hapley »
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Why Juneteenth?
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2021, 05:18:29 PM »

June 19th is as good a day as any.

We celebrate "Independence Day" celebrating the signing of the Declaration of Independence on July 4th, 1776. The fledgling USofA didn't really fully secure independence until the Treaty of Paris was signed on September 3, 1783. I can see almost as much justification for celebrating our independence on June 17th to commemorate the battle of Bunker Hill or October 17th marking Cornwallis's surrender at Yorktown.
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cordex

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Re: Why Juneteenth?
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2021, 05:33:12 PM »

For nearly all of its history this has been mostly a regional celebration.
Regardless of its importance to people living in a particular region, it isn't at all the obvious date to celebrate the freeing of slaves on a national level.
It only very recently became a national thing.
Many of its recent advocates have a storied history of using semantic overloading to conflate objectively good things with evil things (i.e. Black Lives Matter).
To someone unused to it, the name sounds kind of stupid.

Given all that, I totally understand why some people are a little hesitant to jump aboard.  However, as has been said it's a worthy thing to celebrate and while I could certainly argue for other dates I can't think of a reason that June 19th shouldn't be used.

Bogie

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Re: Why Juneteenth?
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2021, 07:00:54 PM »

If someone can come up with a reason to "justify" looting, you can bet that this will be an excuse for a "celebration."
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