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Author Topic: Apartment building near Miami partially collapses  (Read 1275 times)

MechAg94

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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Apartment building near Miami partially collapses
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2021, 12:35:31 PM »

Did the builder use substandard material?
Can that even be found out?
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sumpnz

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Re: Apartment building near Miami partially collapses
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2021, 11:43:47 PM »

Did the builder use substandard material?
Can that even be found out?


Doubtful (either question).  The environment there causes that deterioration.  They condo board failed to keep up on maintenance, or make repairs when they should have.

kgbsquirrel

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Re: Apartment building near Miami partially collapses
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2021, 01:50:47 AM »

Doubtful (either question).  The environment there causes that deterioration.  They condo board failed to keep up on maintenance, or make repairs when they should have.

Swampland is just plain hard on any sort of structure.  I probably put it second only to salt water environments for aggressiveness in rot and rust.

just Warren

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Re: Apartment building near Miami partially collapses
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2021, 02:15:59 AM »

I'm guessing every administrative body in all the high-rises in South Florida have been run ragged by their members demanding inspections and repairs if needed.

It would be interesting to find out just how many buildings are in bad shape, and what is being done about them.

It is hard to imagine that no other building is in a bad way.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Apartment building near Miami partially collapses
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2021, 11:21:07 AM »

I'm guessing every administrative body in all the high-rises in South Florida have been run ragged by their members demanding inspections and repairs if needed.

It would be interesting to find out just how many buildings are in bad shape, and what is being done about them.

It is hard to imagine that no other building is in a bad way.

Miami-Dade County has already evacuated at least one other high-rise condo building as a result of the post-Surfside collapse.

Boomhauer

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Re: Apartment building near Miami partially collapses
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2021, 11:45:03 AM »

Miami-Dade County has already evacuated at least one other high-rise condo building as a result of the post-Surfside collapse.

I don’t know much about condos except that they are basically apartments that you buy outright vs renting so what are the recourses for owners?
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Fly320s

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Re: Apartment building near Miami partially collapses
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2021, 04:20:11 PM »

I don’t know much about condos except that they are basically apartments that you buy outright vs renting so what are the recourses for owners?

Sue?

I bet there is a contract that says the owners will pay $X per month for Y services.  Hopefully, those Y services include complete maintenance on the building.
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MechAg94

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Re: Apartment building near Miami partially collapses
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2021, 04:42:12 PM »

I never had a condo, but I didn't own a town home once.  There was a $200 monthly maintenance fee that paid for maintaining the grounds and general maintenance.  In the 3 years I was in that house, they came through and replaced the roof and a bunch of the wood siding and trim.  They had all that stuff budgeted. 
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Apartment building near Miami partially collapses
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2021, 07:44:48 PM »

I don’t know much about condos except that they are basically apartments that you buy outright vs renting so what are the recourses for owners?

Condominiums are owned by associations, which are made up of the unit owners. The association officers are elected by the unit officers and charged with managing the property. Most condo boards hire professional property management companies to take care of that for them. Having worked as a consultant to a number of property management companies, I know that some are better than others. But the condo board of directors ultimately controls the purse strings, so unless they budget for something and appropriate the funds, the management company can't do it.

If the management company sees that the concrete columns in the basement garage are deteriorating and they recommend spending $100,000 to address the worst of it, but the condo board is more concerned about "image" and decides to spend that $100,000 to replace the marble floor tiles in the main lobby ... well, that's how you get a Surfside collapse.

Remember, the twin to the building that collapsed is only two (or three?) buildings to the north. It's reported to be in much better condition -- it's probably not a coincidence that it's run by a different board of directors.

How all this is going to play out legally is going to be interesting to watch. It has another wrinkle, too -- some of the units may not be occupied by the owners, they may be rented out. So then the occupant looks to the unit owner, and the unit owner looks to the condo association -- of which he is a part.

Messy.

WLJ

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Re: Apartment building near Miami partially collapses
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2021, 09:46:03 AM »

A collapse that occurred back in the 90s is a story of fail after fail after fail.

A Brief History of: The Sampoong Department Store Collapse (Documentary)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5idPqAlLGU
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Apartment building near Miami partially collapses
« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2021, 11:23:31 AM »

A collapse that occurred back in the 90s is a story of fail after fail after fail.

A Brief History of: The Sampoong Department Store Collapse (Documentary)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5idPqAlLGU

Famous collapse, but a lousy video. The narrator has no idea what he's talking about.

Example, at 5:30 he  talks about putting three 15-ton a/c units on the roof. I'm pretty certain that those units didn't weigh 30,000 pounds (or, since he's using metric, 15 long tons would be 33,000 pounds). I strongly suspect that "15 tons" is a reference to their cooling capacity, not their physical weight.

I had to stop watching at that point.

The Wikipedia article makes the same claim, though, so I may be wrong. But I've been involved in a lot of construction projects and I've seen a lot of rooftop air handling units -- including some that were placed by helicopter. Those weights just don't sound right.

Nonetheless, the department store collapse wasn't an "accident." It was a direct result of greed and intentional breaking of rules. From Wikipedia:

Quote
Five hours before the collapse, the first of several loud bangs was heard emanating from the top floors, as the vibration of the air conditioning caused the cracks in the slabs to widen further. Amid customer complaints of vibration, the air conditioning was turned off, but the cracks in the floors had already grown to 10 cm wide. Around then, it was realized that collapse of the building was inevitable, and an emergency board meeting was held. The directors suggested to Lee [the head of the department store company] that all customers should be evacuated, but Lee angrily refused to do so for fear of revenue losses. However, Lee himself left the building safely before the collapse occurred.[6] He did not even inform his own daughter-in-law, Chu Kyung Young, who was one of the employees in the building, of the imminent danger. She became trapped in the rubble and was rescued only days later.

Quite the guy, Mr. Lee.

WLJ

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Re: Apartment building near Miami partially collapses
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2021, 11:38:36 AM »

Lawsuit saying the construction of a condo tower next door is at least partially to blame.

Construction of luxury condo just feet away weakened frail Champlain Towers, lawsuit says
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article255872896.html#storylink=cpy

Neighbor Caused Surfside Collapse Lawsuit Alleges - Lawsuit Analysis Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2VUNMWxkd0
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MechAg94

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Re: Apartment building near Miami partially collapses
« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2021, 12:09:44 PM »

Lawsuit saying the construction of a condo tower next door is at least partially to blame.

Construction of luxury condo just feet away weakened frail Champlain Towers, lawsuit says
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article255872896.html#storylink=cpy

Neighbor Caused Surfside Collapse Lawsuit Alleges - Lawsuit Analysis Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2VUNMWxkd0
Driving piles right next door would create some vibration, but it seems to me that only makes the building's foundation seem that much more weak and prone to failure.
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