Author Topic: Afghanistan  (Read 37148 times)

WLJ

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #100 on: August 16, 2021, 11:16:43 AM »
Have they arrested the film maker that triggered all this yet?
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WLJ

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #101 on: August 16, 2021, 11:40:38 AM »
Quote
CNN reporter on the Taliban takeover in Afghanistan: “They’re just chanting ‘Death to America,’ but they seem friendly at the same time.” #Afghanistan #Talibans
https://twitter.com/sophiabfisher/status/1427277156913139716

Mostly peaceful.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #102 on: August 16, 2021, 11:44:43 AM »
Quote
CNN reporter on the Taliban takeover in Afghanistan: “They’re just chanting ‘Death to America,’ but they seem friendly at the same time.” #Afghanistan #Talibans
https://twitter.com/sophiabfisher/status/1427277156913139716

Mostly peaceful.

Sort of like Jesuits: "We love you and we want to save your souls, so we're going to kill you."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj8n4MfhjUc
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Blakenzy

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DittoHead

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #104 on: August 16, 2021, 12:31:06 PM »
If only we had elected the man who invented the internet.  ;/
Al Gore may have been the better choice.

Up until September 11, 2001, Gore’s first term would have looked something like a third Bill Clinton term. Assuming the terrorist attacks would have happened in this alternate universe, we can reasonably expect Gore would have reacted differently than Bush did.

First, unlike Bush, Gore had no particular attachment to the situation in Iraq. Bush’s father started the war with Iraq to protect Saudi Arabia from invasion. Iraqi President Saddam Hussein would later attempt to stage an assasination of Bush’s father as revenge. It was personal. Everyone understands that now. In contrast, we can reasonably assume that Gore would have allowed the sanctions regime against Iraq to collapse while he focused on responding to Al Qaeda.

Obama, not Bush, found and killed Osama bin Laden by circumventing the very duplicitous alliance with Pakistan that Bush had formed in the early part of the war. Gore likely would have borrowed from the Bosnian conflict game plan which relied on airstrikes and very light on-the-ground presence. It’s even possible that Gore would have made a nuclear response instead of attempting to conquer and occupy the entire country of Afghanistan.
:O
I do think it was important that we killed Bin Laden. But that was more a Pakistan problem and a much smaller & simpler mission than the whole Afghanistan mess.
In the moral, catatonic stupor America finds itself in today it is only disagreement we seek, and the more virulent that disagreement, the better.

WLJ

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #105 on: August 16, 2021, 12:51:38 PM »
Quote
Bush’s father started the war with Iraq
  :O
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #106 on: August 16, 2021, 01:47:24 PM »
Even the Wall Street Journal:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-afghanistan-surrender-withdrawal-ashraf-ghani-kabul-saigon-jihadist-9-11-11629054041

Quote
President Biden’s statement on Saturday washing his hands of Afghanistan deserves to go down as one of the most shameful in history by a Commander in Chief at such a moment of American retreat. As the Taliban closed in on Kabul, Mr. Biden sent a confirmation of U.S. abandonment that absolved himself of responsibility, deflected blame to his predecessor, and more or less invited the Taliban to take over the country.

Quote
Note that Mr. Biden is more critical of his predecessor than he is of the Taliban. The President has spent seven months ostentatiously overturning one Trump policy after another on foreign and domestic policy. Yet he now claims Afghanistan policy is the one he could do nothing about.

This is a pathetic denial of his own agency, and it’s also a false choice. It’s as if Winston Churchill, with his troops surrounded at Dunkirk, had declared that Neville Chamberlain got him into this mess and the British had already fought too many wars on the Continent.

Just ... WOW!
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Ben

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #107 on: August 16, 2021, 01:49:34 PM »
Even the Wall Street Journal:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-afghanistan-surrender-withdrawal-ashraf-ghani-kabul-saigon-jihadist-9-11-11629054041

Just ... WOW!

Yeah, I'm almost shocked at how much of the liberal MSM has been calling him out. Even CNN and MSNBC are getting hits in with very legitimate questions. They are also being attacked on the social media for daring to ask such questions ("Trump's fault!!!!!").
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BobR

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #108 on: August 16, 2021, 02:01:33 PM »
I read just a bit of go that the Taliban had started going door to door looking for people on a list for targeted killings. Much like the recent assassinations of Afghan Air Force pilots who were off duty. I would imagine the Taliban have a very long list and will probably go off list for quite a few. Who didn't see this happening, other than the current administration?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9897561/ALL-Embassy-staff-Kabul-evacuated-airport-five-people-killed.html


bob

dogmush

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #109 on: August 16, 2021, 02:06:45 PM »
I see lots of folks comparing Kabul to the Fall of Saigon, but I'm worried it'll end up more like the Fall of Phnom Penh.

WLJ

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #110 on: August 16, 2021, 02:16:29 PM »
The washer is in the spin cycle

Here are the WH Afghanistan talking points Pelosi's office just sent around. They are not good:
https://twitter.com/joshrogin/status/1427325804611096579/photo/1
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Lennyjoe

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #111 on: August 16, 2021, 02:34:04 PM »
Ive been watching CNN all morning and they’re definitely being harder on Joe than they have the last 6 months. 

Yea I know, watching CNN is taboo but it’s nice to see what the other side of the line is doing from time to time.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #112 on: August 16, 2021, 02:34:30 PM »
The washer is in the spin cycle

Here are the WH Afghanistan talking points Pelosi's office just sent around. They are not good:
https://twitter.com/joshrogin/status/1427325804611096579/photo/1

Scary stuff. I'm sure the screaming beards are shaking in their sandals.

"We'll hold the Taliban accountable."

Yeah, right.
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zahc

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #113 on: August 16, 2021, 02:37:32 PM »
So is there no credibility to the idea that Trump's actions were the cause?

I mean it was a Trump platform to bring troops home. It could have been predicted that pulling troops out would cause a collapse, because that should be expected unless you are really optimistic or know something I don't. So Biden getting the hot potato seems like a half reasonable take. I don't think the TaliBlitz was forseen or seen as likely scenario, so maybe the collapse was full-speed instead of the expected slow-motion. It's still embarrassing to engage in public inter-administration finger pointing but did everyone expect withdrawing from AG to go well?
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Ben

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #114 on: August 16, 2021, 02:45:11 PM »
So is there no credibility to the idea that Trump's actions were the cause?

I mean it was a Trump platform to bring troops home. It could have been predicted that pulling troops out would cause a collapse, because that should be expected unless you are really optimistic or know something I don't. So Biden getting the hot potato seems like a half reasonable take. I don't think the TaliBlitz was forseen or seen as likely scenario, so maybe the collapse was full-speed instead of the expected slow-motion. It's still embarrassing to engage in public inter-administration finger pointing but did everyone expect withdrawing from AG to go well?

I'm almost positive we discussed it here under Trump, and also almost positive that while I was for pulling out, I dinged Trump regarding the accelerated timetable he wanted over a lengthier pullout in stages.  That, of course, might have only prolonged the inevitable.

There may simply not be any methodology for a US pullout that doesn't result in what we see now. Perhaps a longer term pullout might have allowed us to bring some equipment home, though it sounds like we were fine leaving it all there.

At any rate, I think one of the main points now regarding why people are "picking on" Biden is that he is a deer in the headlights, and both the President and VP seem to be hiding out. I guarantee Trump would have made several statements by now, regardless if they would have been popular.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #115 on: August 16, 2021, 02:45:27 PM »
Scary stuff. I'm sure the screaming beards are shaking in their sandals.

"We'll hold the Taliban accountable."

Yeah, right.

They're worried that Michelle might tweet another photo of herself holding a sign.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #116 on: August 16, 2021, 02:46:12 PM »
It matters because she's going to be the President. There are still more than three years left in this term, and it's unlikely that Biden will make it to the end.

You forgot the quotation marks around the word President.
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WLJ

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #117 on: August 16, 2021, 02:50:07 PM »
At any rate, I think one of the main points now regarding why people are "picking on" Biden is that he is a deer in the headlights, and both the President and VP seem to be hiding out. I guarantee Trump would have made several statements by now, regardless if they would have been popular.

This
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French G.

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #118 on: August 16, 2021, 02:53:30 PM »
Oh absolute BS. It was an Obama platform to get out of there. Trump just did it. We had to leave. We needed to leave when we had an unhinged lunatic in charge. Don’t think the Talis noticed the Iranian general? This seizure of a country was overt. They were not sneaking in and out of Pakistan at night to get it done. Out in the open with radios running, we could have stuck a hellfire in every commander’s hi-lux if we had the will. FAFO is way more powerful than a please play nice tweet. See any AC-130s toasting everything including our equipment? Nope.
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

WLJ

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #119 on: August 16, 2021, 03:02:11 PM »
Oh absolute BS. It was an Obama platform to get out of there. Trump just did it. We had to leave. We needed to leave when we had an unhinged lunatic in charge. Don’t think the Talis noticed the Iranian general? This seizure of a country was overt. They were not sneaking in and out of Pakistan at night to get it done. Out in the open with radios running, we could have stuck a hellfire in every commander’s hi-lux if we had the will. FAFO is way more powerful than a please play nice tweet. See any AC-130s toasting everything including our equipment? Nope.

IMHO is part of the deer in the headlights reaction Ben mentioned we're getting from Biden. Trump would be dropping bombs. A few well planned strikes could have done wonders for ANA morale. Instead of dropping bombs Biden went out for ice cream and disappeared.
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zahc

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #120 on: August 16, 2021, 03:09:46 PM »
Quote
There may simply not be any methodology for a US pullout that doesn't result in what we see now.

For the time being I'm going with this conclusion. It seems like trump and biden are both in the "f it, we leave" camp. Sure they will bicker over how the other guy made it worse.
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Jim147

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #121 on: August 16, 2021, 03:22:26 PM »
I think trumps plan was to move out fairly quickly but to leave a force there to protect our interests and people. Joe just pulled everyone out and banned the contractors and now we have 7000-8000 troops back in trying to get the people out.
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Angel Eyes

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #122 on: August 16, 2021, 03:49:30 PM »
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WLJ

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #123 on: August 16, 2021, 04:14:48 PM »
Well this certainly knocked Coumo off the front page
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Ben

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #124 on: August 16, 2021, 04:19:42 PM »
Well this certainly knocked Coumo off the front page

This was planned by his people.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."