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R.I.P. Scout26

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Author Topic: Afghanistan  (Read 9605 times)

TommyGunn

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2021, 12:45:32 PM »

Dogmush,  thank you very much for posting that rather lengthy  thesis on Afghanistan.  You may not be an expert but you have much better insight into the dynamics of the place than I did.

Much appreciated!!! ;)
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

WLJ

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2021, 12:53:00 PM »

Another thing to consider is if the Taliban start getting frisky with their neighbors you got Pakistan to their east with nukes but also a large number of supporters of the Taliban in their western territories and soon to have nukes Iran to their west who hates their guts. 
“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”
~George Carlin

MechAg94

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2021, 02:33:59 PM »

Thanks dogmush.  Sounds like there was little of hope of achieving the goals W. Bush started even if we knew that culture very well. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

RocketMan

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2021, 02:35:48 PM »

The only deals I'm aware of with the Taliban were of the "We're getting ready to leave, let's have a cease-fire so we can pack up and skeddadle" variety.  Which they seem to have honored.

There were supposed to be negotiations over the formation of a new Afghani government between the Taliban and the current Afghan government.  That's obviously not happening.

Thanks for your insight on the situation over there.  It is appreciated.
“Don’t be so open-minded that your brains fall out.” - G.K. Chesterton

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

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How many Democrats does it take to fix a problem?  No one knows because it's never happened.

Fly320s

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2021, 09:08:50 PM »

^^^^This.  How fast "the lesson of Vietnam" was ignored and the American people shrugged and went about their day.

I have to jump in here, long before I've read the rest of the thread.

Bull-f*cking-sh!t.

"Went about their day?" Like we had a choice?  Some of us were screaming from the rooftops that a prolonged war in Afghanistan, et al., would be a complete and total clucster f*ck of epic proportions.  "The American People" didn't get a vote for this crap.  The middle east is a stew-pot of stupidity.  There never has been and never will be anyone of intelligence emerging from the sand there. 

Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

Jim147

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2021, 10:56:13 PM »

I agree. Look at how many countries are worse now than before we got involved. Yes they would have fallen but we didn't stop it with all the blood and money left over there.

My dad, many uncles and my best friend spent time in Vietnam. I have anouther bunch of friends that played in the sand. Luckily they all come home. One was lost later.

We have not had a plan to truly win a war in my lifetime. Yes we got Iraq but with no plan after that. Granada I guess we got that one but not sure what happened after. It fell out of the news quick.

We never should have went to the desert without a total wipe them out plan. I know most people don't agree with that but the alternative is not going in and I'm fine with that. Why the hell do we pay the UN if we go in first?
Sometimes we carry more weight then we owe.
And sometimes goes on and on and on.

BAH-WEEP-GRAAAGHNAH WHEEP NI-NI BONG

MechAg94

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2021, 11:41:05 PM »

Either we have pie in the sky goals in the first place or the politicians get big heads and go for more after initial success.  Of course we often don't see the effect of BS rules of engagement, or  of the influence of big business looking to make money off the whole thing.  There is almost always a lot of bad advice floating around from people who have other motives. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Angel Eyes

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2021, 11:49:28 PM »

"Tastes kind-of like cherry cough syrup and swimming-pool water, with a hint of puke."
                   - Paul Harrell describes Red Bull

MechAg94

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2021, 11:59:12 PM »

I guess I don't keep up with the styling of Black Hawk helicopters.  Looks like a Hind to me.  (we probably still paid for it)
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Jim147

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2021, 12:04:59 AM »

The only good thing is that it will be as useful as Iran's F-14's very soon.
Sometimes we carry more weight then we owe.
And sometimes goes on and on and on.

BAH-WEEP-GRAAAGHNAH WHEEP NI-NI BONG

Lennyjoe

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2021, 05:50:24 AM »

I have to jump in here, long before I've read the rest of the thread.

Bull-f*cking-sh!t.

"Went about their day?" Like we had a choice?  Some of us were screaming from the rooftops that a prolonged war in Afghanistan, et al., would be a complete and total clucster f*ck of epic proportions.  "The American People" didn't get a vote for this crap.  The middle east is a stew-pot of stupidity.  There never has been and never will be anyone of intelligence emerging from the sand there.

Totally agree.  Once we whacked Osama we should of bailed out but didn’t.

Ron

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2021, 07:17:26 AM »

If we actually leave Afghanistan and the Taliban secures control of all regions they will end up with something we don't have.

Their own country.
The wish not to believe can influence as strongly as the wish to believe.

Who can escape their own cognitive biases?

HeroHog

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2021, 09:50:50 AM »

Oh no, please don't throw me in the briar patch!
Racist! (gotta be old to get the above quote. Probably not allowed to read such hate filled trash these days... </Sarcasm>)
I might not last very long or be very effective but I'll be a real pain in the ass for a minute!
MOLON LABE!

Boomhauer

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #38 on: August 14, 2021, 10:24:53 AM »

Racist! (gotta be old to get the above quote. Probably not allowed to read such hate filled trash these days... </Sarcasm>)

The ironic thing is Disney still had the Song of the South Bre’r Rabbit theme (minus tar baby)  as the theme for the Splash Mountain ride up until this year. I rode it last year. 
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the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

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BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #39 on: August 14, 2021, 11:59:53 AM »

The only good thing is that it will be as useful as Iran's F-14's very soon.

A good friend of mine is a retired Army Blackhawk crew chief. He spent several years as a contractor in Afghanistan "training" the Afghani army Blackhawk crews. He told me it was a colossal waste of time and effort and money. The Afghanis simply weren't culturally capable of learning what needed to be learned.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

MillCreek

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #40 on: August 14, 2021, 12:07:14 PM »

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/13/1027390545/kabul-afghanistan-embassy-evacuation?utm_medium=social&utm_term=nprnews&utm_campaign=npr&utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR2OcWZ_qTwFECo-2rwFrFyPDcRjdy4FCnIx07mgbzpGOiVdmFUXe0OI6R0

And based on other articles I have read, it sounds as if the US Embassy there is preparing to be overrun by the Taliban.  I sure hope this does not turn into another Iranian embassy situation.
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MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


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You are one lousy risk manager.

Boomhauer

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #41 on: August 14, 2021, 12:09:00 PM »

Remember, you are a domestic terrorist for buying a semi automatic AR but leaving piles and piles of actual military grade weapons for actual terrorists is A-OK.
Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

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the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

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BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

BobR

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2021, 12:11:34 PM »

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/13/1027390545/kabul-afghanistan-embassy-evacuation?utm_medium=social&utm_term=nprnews&utm_campaign=npr&utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR2OcWZ_qTwFECo-2rwFrFyPDcRjdy4FCnIx07mgbzpGOiVdmFUXe0OI6R0

And based on other articles I have read, it sounds as if the US Embassy there is preparing to be overrun by the Taliban.  I sure hope this does not turn into another Iranian embassy situation.

They need to park an AC 130 overhead along with a couple of A 10s until everyone is gone. Maybe, just maybe, everyone will have a chance of getting out then. Then they need to level the building.

bob

Ben

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #43 on: August 14, 2021, 01:25:10 PM »

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/13/1027390545/kabul-afghanistan-embassy-evacuation?utm_medium=social&utm_term=nprnews&utm_campaign=npr&utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR2OcWZ_qTwFECo-2rwFrFyPDcRjdy4FCnIx07mgbzpGOiVdmFUXe0OI6R0

And based on other articles I have read, it sounds as if the US Embassy there is preparing to be overrun by the Taliban.  I sure hope this does not turn into another Iranian embassy situation.

Gonna be really good optics for the administration to have video of people being airlifted out of there by helo, sorta like in... Where was it again?
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

RocketMan

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2021, 02:24:25 PM »

Gonna be really good optics for the administration to have video of people being airlifted out of there by helo, sorta like in... Where was it again?

Chicago?  Detroit?
“Don’t be so open-minded that your brains fall out.” - G.K. Chesterton

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

How many Democrats does it take to fix a problem?  No one knows because it's never happened.

WLJ

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2021, 02:26:25 PM »

Capital Building, Jan 06 2021. Most democrats suffer from PTSD induced hallucinations from the event.
“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”
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RocketMan

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #46 on: August 14, 2021, 02:32:09 PM »

Capital Building, Jan 06 2021. Most democrats suffer from PTSD induced hallucinations from the event.

Ah, yes.  I didn't think of that.
“Don’t be so open-minded that your brains fall out.” - G.K. Chesterton

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

How many Democrats does it take to fix a problem?  No one knows because it's never happened.

Ben

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #47 on: August 15, 2021, 08:12:35 AM »

Liz Cheney just needs to go ahead and switch to the dem side of the aisle. The TDS in this remark is palpable, especially considering her last name.

https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2021/08/14/rep-liz-cheney-calls-afghanistan-collapse-a-trump-biden-calamity-and-people-have-thoughts/
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Ben

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #48 on: August 15, 2021, 09:22:45 AM »

https://twitter.com/i/status/1426710333264179214

Interesting press conference by Biden. While he was talking, a helo was actually leaving the embassy, which is due to be 100% evacuated in the next day or so. Further, Afghan gov leadership are all packing up and leaving the country to keep from being beheaded.

Couple this with what Dogmush said about the tribalism, and I'm guessing the "300,000 strong" Afghan army is likely effectively closer to 25% of that, and I also bet there are effectively more than 75,000 Taliban.

Also, I think as of today, the Taliban control close to 90% of the country. I saw they rolled into Bagram and freed all 5000 prisoners being held there.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Ron

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #49 on: August 15, 2021, 09:28:02 AM »

It's almost as if the government/news media were keeping the US citizens in a matrix of lies regarding the realities on the ground in Afghanistan.

The wish not to believe can influence as strongly as the wish to believe.

Who can escape their own cognitive biases?
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