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Author Topic: TX SB8 abortion bill  (Read 674 times)

zahc

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TX SB8 abortion bill
« on: September 04, 2021, 04:26:57 PM »

I just heard about this because Lyft took it upon themselves to email me to tell me how bad it is. Apparently Uber is broadcasting opposition as well. To hear them talk about it, SB8 allows prosecution for those aiding people who try to break the new law, apparently including drivers. Even though I think it's super farfetched to imagine an Uber driver being prosecuted for anything his passenger was on the way to do (except maybe Deadpool's taxi driver). Can Uber drivers even tell where you are going before they pick you up?

They are apparently creating a legal defense fund for their drivers.

Second, what do we think about SB8. I thought roe vs. Wade was still in effect to stop states from banning abortion, did something change?
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dogmush

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Re: TX SB8 abortion bill
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2021, 05:43:23 PM »

My understanding of  SB8 is that it doesn't allow prosecution,  but rather allows private citizens to sue anyone involved in the abortion for $10k each.

So any citizen of Texas could sue the driver, the Dr., the Nurse, the receptionist, etc for $10k if an abortion was performed that ran afoul of the law.  That's how they sidestepped Roe v. Wade, by not having the .gov enforce  it.

I admit though,  I haven't read the bill, only the various pundits opinions.  I will reserve my opinion until I get around to reading the actual bill.

Angel Eyes

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Re: TX SB8 abortion bill
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2021, 07:35:52 PM »

My understanding of  SB8 is that it doesn't allow prosecution,  but rather allows private citizens to sue anyone involved in the abortion for $10k each.

Almost.  Someone who impregnated a woman via rape or incest is prohibited from suing.

The approach is a clever one: the law does not ban anything as such.  It just exposes the providers to liability.

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WLJ

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Re: TX SB8 abortion bill
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2021, 09:34:40 PM »

*
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Boomhauer

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Re: TX SB8 abortion bill
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2021, 07:34:46 AM »

Ho’s mad because they can’t kill their babies after 6 weeks.

I love it because it gives the shitlibs a taste of their own medicine…how does it feel to live in an area where you don’t get your way because you are outnumbered?
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Boomhauer

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Re: TX SB8 abortion bill
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2021, 09:38:49 AM »

Also not being able to slice and dice a kid after six weeks is totally comparable to the oppression of the Taliban.

Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

Ben

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Re: TX SB8 abortion bill
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2021, 03:28:09 PM »

Apparently Portland is looking to boycott Texas, which I'm sure has Texas just worried to death.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-ban-texas-travel-trade-protest-abortion-law

Interesting aside in the story, John Roberts voted with Sotomayer et. al.
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T.O.M.

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Re: TX SB8 abortion bill
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2021, 05:15:13 PM »

The decision of the Supreme Court had nothing to do with the substance of the law, but was focused on the procedure of seeking an injunction before the law could be challenged.  The majority found that those seeking injunction did not meet their burden.  The dissent was more along the lines of "let's overlook the procedural issues to stop the law and hear the challenges, because of the great public interest." 
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: TX SB8 abortion bill
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2021, 08:15:12 PM »

I'm going on record here as saying this bill has nothing to do with Abortion.

This bill is all about dissuading (the wrong?) Californians (if there is such a thing as a "right" Californian) from coming to Texas.

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dogmush

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Re: TX SB8 abortion bill
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2021, 12:35:07 PM »

After reading most of SB8, and more about it, I gotta say this seems like a really bad idea.

Essentially deputizing every Karen in the state to sue into oblivion folks you can't prosecute because of the constitutionality of their actions really seems like the kind of precedent that could bite everyone in the ass.  My prediction is that if this isn't shot down as soon as someone has standing, we will all rue the day it passed.

Nick1911

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Re: TX SB8 abortion bill
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2021, 12:51:50 PM »

What standing does some random person have to sue an abortion provider if they themselves are not in anyway party to said abortion?   ???

Think what you want about abortion, but this is a terrible law that needs to die.

Ben

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Re: TX SB8 abortion bill
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2021, 12:59:57 PM »

Yes, they could have left that "random lawsuits" part out and perhaps had better legislation (depending on your POV, obviously).

Unless I'm missing something in who can sue and how. The way I'm reading it, it could be applied elsewhere to a whole lot of stuff that I care about. Ammo manufacturers for instance, could be harassment sued out of business.
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WLJ

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Re: TX SB8 abortion bill
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2021, 01:02:47 PM »

After reading most of SB8, and more about it, I gotta say this seems like a really bad idea.

Essentially deputizing every Karen in the state to sue into oblivion folks you can't prosecute because of the constitutionality of their actions really seems like the kind of precedent that could bite everyone in the ass.  My prediction is that if this isn't shot down as soon as someone has standing, we will all rue the day it passed.

I was thinking last night I can see the left applying something like this to guns to sue everyone from the gun owners, dealers, distributors, and manufacturers
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MillCreek

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Re: TX SB8 abortion bill
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2021, 01:28:03 PM »

Wait until the concept of an undefined 'aid and abet' clause is extended onto things we care about.
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Angel Eyes

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Re: TX SB8 abortion bill
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2021, 01:32:35 PM »

I was thinking last night I can see the left applying something like this to guns to sue everyone from the gun owners, dealers, distributors, and manufacturers

Wouldn't the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act apply?  (at least for some cases)

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Ben

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Re: TX SB8 abortion bill
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2021, 01:37:06 PM »

Wouldn't the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act apply?  (at least for some cases)

They could do gun ranges and get around the act, I think.
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Ron

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Re: TX SB8 abortion bill
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2021, 01:39:07 PM »

... and when it gets used against the cause of freedom the conservatives will all fall in line and say their hands are tied, it's the law.

I think I've seen this movie before.
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makattak

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Re: TX SB8 abortion bill
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2021, 02:46:07 PM »

After reading most of SB8, and more about it, I gotta say this seems like a really bad idea.

Essentially deputizing every Karen in the state to sue into oblivion folks you can't prosecute because of the constitutionality of their actions really seems like the kind of precedent that could bite everyone in the ass.  My prediction is that if this isn't shot down as soon as someone has standing, we will all rue the day it passed.

You mean like they already did with ADA violations?

Or in Colorado where they are using the exact same idea to persecute the cake-maker?

Yeah, quite the precedent Texas is setting here.

(I'll stop with two examples because I'm too lazy to search for more, but my point is the left is ALREADY doing this.)
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MechAg94

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Re: TX SB8 abortion bill
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2021, 03:11:37 PM »

I'm going on record here as saying this bill has nothing to do with Abortion.

This bill is all about dissuading (the wrong?) Californians (if there is such a thing as a "right" Californian) from coming to Texas.
I appreciate the thought, but likely better ways to do it.  Constitutional Carry is better.
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Ben

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Re: TX SB8 abortion bill
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2021, 03:14:57 PM »

Or in Colorado where they are using the exact same idea to persecute the cake-maker?

No denying this. What they are doing to this guy with the constant nuisance lawsuits is criminal. Which is why I would rather see a change in the legal system that will prevent it being done to him or anyone else vs one that lets everyone do it to everyone else.
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MechAg94

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Re: TX SB8 abortion bill
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2021, 03:38:09 PM »

https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/87R/billtext/html/SB00008F.htm

What I see in the bill:
1.  It limits damages to $10,000 per abortion.  No attorney fees.    (see quoted section in the next post)
2.  not allowed for pregnancies resulting from rape, sex assault, incest, etc.  Doctor can certify abortion is necessary in an emergency. 
3.  No duplicate damages for the same abortion act. 

Sounds to me like it is designed to allow harassment suits, but limit it to that.  You may notice legalese I missed.  I get the impression there are some loopholes. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

MechAg94

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Re: TX SB8 abortion bill
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2021, 03:43:25 PM »

Quote
If a claimant prevails in an action brought under this
     section, the court shall award:
                  (1)  injunctive relief sufficient to prevent the
     defendant from violating this subchapter or engaging in acts that
     aid or abet violations of this subchapter;
                  (2)  statutory damages in an amount of not less than
     $10,000 for each abortion that the defendant performed or induced
     in violation of this subchapter, and for each abortion performed or
     induced in violation of this subchapter that the defendant aided or
     abetted; and
                  (3)  costs and attorney's fees.
Okay, misread some of that I think related to #1 above. 

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Ben

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Re: TX SB8 abortion bill
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2021, 04:10:58 PM »

On the tangent, this kind of thing from people like the justice dept doesn't help the conversation either:

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2021/09/06/attorney-general-merrick-garland-says-the-justice-department-will-not-tolerate-violence-against-those-seeking-reproductive-health-services/

Every *expletive deleted*ing thing is "violence" now. If I tip the waitress 15% instead of 20%, that's "violence". When I see the purportedly unbiased justice dept and others promote this kind of made up definition stuff, it kinda makes me want to have the back of whoever they're doing it to, even if I think that person is wrong (for reasons other than "violence").
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grampster

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Re: TX SB8 abortion bill
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2021, 04:30:17 PM »

Well, it was Merrick Garland.  Who once again displays himself as totally unqualified for much else than dog catcher.
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MechAg94

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Re: TX SB8 abortion bill
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2021, 08:55:51 AM »

Well, it was Merrick Garland.  Who once again displays himself as totally unqualified for much else than dog catcher.
And to think he was a federal judge who some thought of well enough to be on the SC. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge
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