Author Topic: Wheel of Time on TV  (Read 813 times)

HankB

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Wheel of Time on TV
« on: September 05, 2021, 12:00:42 PM »
Almost posted this to the Dune thread, but decided not to cause more thread drift. (We NEVER do that at APS, do we?   :rofl: )

In any case, it looks like Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time is getting the cinematic treatment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F75UGq2Uqhs&ab_channel=IGN

I read the first few books of this series and thought they were well done - but somewhere around Book 4 or so it became painfully obvious that the author was getting paid by the word, and had decided to milk his book contract for all it was worth. ("Never settle for 5 words when you can pad your manuscript with 50 or more.")

I'll be curious to see what happens with the books getting Amazon's "Prime" treatment - the teaser trailer piqued my interest a bit, but didn't really ignite my enthusiasm.
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Ben

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Re: Wheel of Time on TV
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2021, 12:13:47 PM »
It could be good, but anytime I see that something like this is being produced by Amazon or Netflix, my first thought is, "So how many homo lovemaking scenes per hour,  completely out of context to the story, will be injected here?" Their hyper-wokeness has ruined a bunch of what otherwise would have been excellent movies/series for me in the last couple of years.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Wheel of Time on TV
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2021, 08:03:10 PM »
It could be good, but anytime I see that something like this is being produced by Amazon or Netflix, my first thought is, "So how many homo lovemaking scenes per hour,  completely out of context to the story, will be injected here?" Their hyper-wokeness has ruined a bunch of what otherwise would have been excellent movies/series for me in the last couple of years.

Pretty likely to get that in WoT, given that Robert Jordan tended to write of the Aes Sedai Novice and Accepted dormitories as having considerable lesbian goings-on.

The things I noticed most in the trailer (having devoured WoT as a teenager through my 20's):

1. It opened with Nynaeve and Egwene.  Neither of them are the main character of the story.
2. It never mentioned the name of the main character of the story, nor his arc.  I don't think it even showed a clear image of the face of the main character and identified him as such.
3. It focused entirely on Aes Sedai (100% women, men definitely not allowed due to the male half of magic being cursed) and their capacity for magic, and their power relationship with the world.  This is somewhat appropriate given the context of magic here but it feels also like a sop to modern political climates.
4. It had a brief glimpse of a character in the story called Logain, a minor character who is a male magic user.  Setting him up to appear more important than he really is to the whole story.
5. The White Tower is supposed to be a contiguous monolithic structure shaped by magic, unfathomably high and large enough to house thousands (tens of thousands?) of Aes Sedai, but the structure they showed for the show was short and stumpy, brick-based, and generally unimpressive.
6. The room where all the magic using women met and held council (well, 23 of them if you know the books) just seemed too small in their presentation, and organized incorrectly.  Very small screen like Dune 2000 on SciFi.
7. The casting for Lan just seems wrong.  The asian guy with a leather wrap around his head.  Lan should have iron hair, grizzled.  Geralt of Rivia kind of character.
8. They had Warders, but no Warder cloaks.
9. I don't think they actually gave names to any of the major characters shown in the trailer... but not naming at least Rand is shameful.  Or Lews Therin.  Or The Dragon.  (Kind of the same character through rebirth on the Wheel of Time).  To me an appropriate trailer would name Rand, Perrin, Mat, and Moiraine.  You might include Egwene and Nynaeve, too.
10.  I don't like the costuming of the Aes Sedai.  Moiraine is on target, but the rest don't seem to fit. Particularly Suian Sanche, the head of the Aes Sedai.  The Aes Sedai all wear shawls/scarfs/stoles to denote their alliance to one of seven factions, called Ajahs.  They are color coded and denote particular foci or ideologies.  White, Blue, Green, Yellow, Red, Grey, Brown.  The head of the Aes Sedai is called the Amyrlin and her shawl is rainbow colored with all 7 colors in it and is a component separate from her clothing, worn ritually.  The way they showed this character in the trailer had the rainbow shawl far too subdued for what it is supposed to represent.  It's like a crown.  And while the various Aes Sedai do tend to wear dresses that coincide with their Ajah color, they should be wearing visible shawls as well.  Particularly in council as was depicted.

All in all I'm cautiously optimistic about it, but it appears to be getting a Dune 2000 style treatment (I did not like the costuming in that at all, and it was clearly shot aiming at small screen consumption, tiny sets, etc).  Or Shannara treatment, if you're familiar with that book series and how it was brought to screen recently.  I found Shannara to be way too "Young Adult" and I expect that from WoT here, but WoT deals with a bunch of teenagers being thrust into saving the world through stupendous power.  It's YA fodder made manifest.  Shannara's treatment altered the age of everyone and turned the Elves of that world into a gaggle of horny emo-teens.

Jordan does not write women well, so I expect a lot of liberties to be taken in altering the characters of Nynaeve, Egwene, Elayne, Min, Aviendha and others.  Which honestly needs to be done.  It just needs to be done tastefully.

If it gets monopolized by the Aes Sedai focused storyline (or even altered to remove Rand/Perrin/Mat from the focal tripod that supports the story) to appease 5th generation feminism, I'll stop watching it.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Wheel of Time on TV
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2021, 08:28:16 PM »
Any other WoT nerds here?

I've wondered for decades at the title of the Amyrlin and the inclusion of a kind of rainbow in her symbol of office.  Amyrlin = Merlin.  Interesting that the title for the head of their order reflects upon the name of a famous wizard from our mythology.  Then you have the rainbow symbol of office, and Stephen King wrote of Old Maerlin controlling 13 orbs, called Maerlin's Rainbow or the Wizard's Rainbow (from the Dark Tower). 

I don't think Jordan was cribbing from King or vice versa, they're both cribbing from Arthurian legend.  Jordan has a character bound to the Wheel of Time called Artur Paendrag Tanreall, also known as Arthur Hawkwing (High King), and it's not hard to figure out that he's clearly inspired by King Arthur from early British legend.  King's Roland of Gilead has Arthurian blood (from his plane of existence), and his sixguns are forged from the steel that made Excalibur.  Having Merlin appear somehow in both stories is obviously going to happen, but I can't find anything in old King Arthur stories where Merlin talks about rainbows.  So it's weird that both stories involve a rainbow attributable to Merlin.

Can anyone shed some light on that?
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
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Calumus

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Re: Wheel of Time on TV
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2021, 05:00:55 PM »
Any other WoT nerds here?

Guilty. I actually have two tattoos of chapter markers. One is Matt’s marker, the other is Lanfear’s.
I’ve read the series around four times I think. Hank, it’s too bad you stopped at book four. That’s where things start getting really interesting for me. The three guys who are the actual center of the story, start really coming into their own then. I haven’t seen the trailer yet; but I follow the show on Twitter so I’ve seen their pick for Lan. Nothing like he’s described in the book. He’s supposed to be about 6’6 and built like Jason Mamoa. Huge shoulders, narrow waist.  Face like stone, and salt and pepper hair in a Ponytail.

Jordan definitely borrowed from Arthurian legend; but he also had a taste of different mythologies from all over the world.
I’m hopeful; but also assuming they’ll ruin it. Which is really too bad when now there is actually the ability to do a good cover of the books with CGI being used for channeling and shadow spawn etc.
I can actually remember the feeling I had the morning that I read Lawdog’s blog and found out Jordan had died with several books still left unwritten. I had started the series over ten years before, and it still wasn’t done. I did think that Brandon did a decent job finishing up, though it did help that Jordan wrote the whole final battle, and last chapter before he died. I was disappointed in how Brandon wrote Matt in his first book. I don’t think he understood the character at all. He did get better with the rest of the books.

I do wish that Jordan’s widow Harriet would license out the world forgotten realms style. There are so many stories to be told. From the age of legends, to the Athan Miere, to the Aiel, and the Seanchan. That was what Jordan had planned to write next. Matt and Tuon’s adventures retaking the Seanchan empire. That would’ve been amazing.

MikeB

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Re: Wheel of Time on TV
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2021, 05:01:40 PM »
1. It opened with Nynaeve and Egwene.  Neither of them are the main character of the story.

I haven't seen the trailer so I can't comment on the rest, but while neither of those two were the main protagonist per se, they were both pivotal to the entire story. If I recall correctly in a few of the hundred or so books, I'm exaggerating a bit there, that Jordan took to tell the story they were in the book more than Rand was. I almost want to say there were one or two books that Rand was barely mentioned if at all.

I think you could make the argument that Nynaeve, Egwene, Mat and Perin where almost as important in the books as Rand was. I guess we have to see if they just decided to use that part for the trailer or if they are going to really butcher the story, sometimes trailers actually won't have the "main" character in it at all.

MikeB

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Re: Wheel of Time on TV
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2021, 05:32:21 PM »
So I just watched a trailer, not sure if there is more than one. I think they show the Mat, Perrin and Rand right at the beginning sitting in a Tavern.

If you look at the Cast list here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wheel_of_Time_(TV_series)

They seem to have everyone I would expect. Rand, Perrin, Mat. Tam and Abell. Loial. Thom. Alana and here multiple Warder's. Min. Leane ...

I do agree Lan is miscast per book description of him, but that is probably not that big a deal.

Damn it, now I have to go reread the series. It's been a couple of years. I'll be busy for a month now.

MikeB

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Re: Wheel of Time on TV
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2022, 04:29:15 PM »
I finally got around to actually starting to watch this on Amazon. I'm not sure I'm going to make it through the first episode. It's like the writers never even read the books... So far everything is pretty much wrong and I'm only about 20 mins in.

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Wheel of Time on TV
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2022, 05:23:43 PM »
I finally got around to actually starting to watch this on Amazon. I'm not sure I'm going to make it through the first episode. It's like the writers never even read the books... So far everything is pretty much wrong and I'm only about 20 mins in.

There's a forum on reddit called /r/whitecloaks that has shredded this attempt by Amazon... free discussion is allowed there.  /r/WOT, /r/WheelOfTime and /r/WOTShow have all been subverted by Amazon shill admins that suppress any criticism of the show.

The pilot, in comparison to the rest of the season, isn't too bad.  Episode 5 is the peak of cringe, but the producers come back with an attempt to outdo themselves in the finale, and nearly succeed..  Each episode, however, takes a unique turn at disrespecting the source material in a way that undermines the entire story arc of the 14 book series.

To be blunt, it makes Legend of the Seeker and the Shannara Chronicles look good.  Makes Xena out to be award-winning.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!