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Author Topic: Rittenhouse trial  (Read 11462 times)

Hawkmoon

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2021, 04:33:49 PM »

I believe I have noticed that before.  Some people seem to get in the mindset that if you self defense wasn't perfectly done it doesn't count.  But I haven't read the comments you mention.  Wonder if those people are not really as pro-2A, pro-self defense as they claim to be.

To put it bluntly, I think it comes down to their just not being nearly as intelligent as they like to think they are.

JTHunter

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #51 on: November 01, 2021, 04:49:03 PM »

We will see what happens now that the actual trial has started jury selection.  [popcorn]
“I have little patience with people who take the Bill of Rights for granted.  The Bill of Rights, contained in the first ten amendments to the Constitution, is every American’s guarantee of freedom.” - - President Harry S. Truman, “Years of Trial and Hope”

bedlamite

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #52 on: November 01, 2021, 08:14:33 PM »

Just watched Viva/Barnes. Defense just pushed out Barnes' team, and from the sound of it, just screwed up jury selection.  =(
Is defenestration possible through the overton window?

sumpnz

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #53 on: November 01, 2021, 08:23:25 PM »

Just watched Viva/Barnes. Defense just pushed out Barnes' team, and from the sound of it, just screwed up jury selection.  =(

Explain please?

bedlamite

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #54 on: November 01, 2021, 10:51:21 PM »

Is defenestration possible through the overton window?

Ben

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #55 on: November 02, 2021, 12:41:12 PM »

It appears the prosecution is off to a fine start, apparently not realizing that there is video evidence refuting what they are saying.

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2021/11/02/hes-aware-this-is-all-on-tape-right-lead-prosecutor-in-kyle-rittenhouse-trial-kicks-things-off-by-lying-about-confrontation-with-rioter-who-was-killed/
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WLJ

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #56 on: November 02, 2021, 01:16:14 PM »

Quote
    Thomas Binger, the lead prosecutor in the Kyle Rittenhouse trial, starts opening statements by saying Joseph Rosenbaum was unarmed when Rittenhouse shot and killed him: "This occurred after [Rittenhouse] chased down Mr. Rosenbaum and confronted him while wielding that AR-15." pic.twitter.com/Kl1U20n6At

    — Julio Rosas (@Julio_Rosas11) November 2, 2021

He pretty much just copied the narrative from the Zimmerman trial. Just changed the names.
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kgbsquirrel

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #57 on: November 02, 2021, 01:40:16 PM »

How is such a blatant misrepresentation of known fact by the government prosecutor not considered malfeasance and a gross ethics violation?  Just curious.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #58 on: November 02, 2021, 01:48:32 PM »

How could someone that delusional maintain a law practice?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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Pb

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #59 on: November 02, 2021, 02:02:49 PM »

How is such a blatant misrepresentation of known fact by the government prosecutor not considered malfeasance and a gross ethics violation?  Just curious.

Laws are for punishing conservatives, that is why.

dogmush

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #60 on: November 02, 2021, 06:16:32 PM »

I thought opening and closing arguments the lawyers could say whatever  they wanted, even lie to set up their theory of the events.?  Is that not a thing?

WLJ

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #61 on: November 02, 2021, 06:30:27 PM »

I thought opening and closing arguments the lawyers could say whatever  they wanted, even lie to set up their theory of the events.?  Is that not a thing?

They're going to look pretty stupid when the defense roll the videos. Which BTW doesn't bother me in the least. They should look stupid for trying to pass off obvious BS as what happened.
I watched all this that night as it happened on a live feed.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2021, 06:57:02 PM by WLJ »
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Ben

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #62 on: November 02, 2021, 07:24:49 PM »

I thought opening and closing arguments the lawyers could say whatever  they wanted, even lie to set up their theory of the events.?  Is that not a thing?

If it's a thing, I suppose a good lawyer would chose to lie about something difficult to refute. A lawyer lying that gravity makes things go up looks pretty stupid when someone drops an apple on his head five minutes later.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

kgbsquirrel

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #63 on: November 02, 2021, 08:05:28 PM »

I thought opening and closing arguments the lawyers could say whatever  they wanted, even lie to set up their theory of the events.?  Is that not a thing?

Why would anyone ever think it is the duty of the public prosecutor to lie to juries to obtain a conviction?!  That is the literal definition of prosecutorial misconduct.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #64 on: November 02, 2021, 08:30:25 PM »

Why would anyone ever think it is the duty of the public prosecutor to lie to juries to obtain a conviction?!  That is the literal definition of prosecutorial misconduct.

Yep.

http://kenoshacountyeye.com/2021/10/30/rittenhouse-prosecutors-got-angry-when-witness-didnt-change-his-story/

De Selby

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #65 on: November 02, 2021, 08:40:03 PM »

There can be no doubt that this kid showing up with a rifle to what he expected to be a riot was a dumb decision. Playing militia or whatever he was doing will have lifelong consequences.

That said, this case is in many ways the inverse Zimmerman. There’s video, and each person shot probably committed some form of crime immediately before being shot. The murder charges are a massive uphill battle for the prosecution.

If this had been in FL, it strikes me as very likely (unlike Zimmerman) the defense would have used a stand your ground hearing to try and get immunity from prosecution.

"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

WLJ

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #66 on: November 02, 2021, 08:47:53 PM »

The big question, to me at least, is will they be pressured to convict to prevent riots. I expect the prosecution will be dropping hints. 
“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”
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"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
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sumpnz

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #67 on: November 02, 2021, 09:41:03 PM »

There can be no doubt that this kid showing up with a rifle to what he expected to be a riot was a dumb decision. Playing militia or whatever he was doing will have lifelong consequences.

That said, this case is in many ways the inverse Zimmerman. There’s video, and each person shot probably committed some form of crime immediately before being shot. The murder charges are a massive uphill battle for the prosecution.

If this had been in FL, it strikes me as very likely (unlike Zimmerman) the defense would have used a stand your ground hearing to try and get immunity from prosecution.



So Trayvon beating the *expletive deleted*it out of Zimmerman wasn’t a crime?

Also, SYG doesn’t matter here either.  Rittenhouse was literally running away and only fired when cornered.  Even in a duty to retreat state he would have met the requirements for legitimate self defense.

De Selby

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #68 on: November 02, 2021, 10:53:38 PM »

So Trayvon beating the *expletive deleted*it out of Zimmerman wasn’t a crime?

Also, SYG doesn’t matter here either.  Rittenhouse was literally running away and only fired when cornered.  Even in a duty to retreat state he would have met the requirements for legitimate self defense.

Zimmerman knew Martín was trying to get away from
him and gave chase. He lucked out because the prosecution charged him with depraved heart murder, alleged racial bias and then tossed in the charge that actually fit at the end of the trial. The lesson for would be neighbourhood commandos is not to rely on luck, but to avoid starting confrontations that could end in a shooting.

You’re missing my point about SYG hearings - they are a way to quickly and without betting on a jury get charges dismissed. It’s telling that Zimmerman didn’t use that method. In this case, were it available (which it is not apparently under WI law) that sort of hearing would probably have been used.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

sumpnz

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #69 on: November 02, 2021, 11:07:43 PM »

Zimmerman knew Martín was trying to get away from
him and gave chase. He lucked out because the prosecution charged him with depraved heart murder, alleged racial bias and then tossed in the charge that actually fit at the end of the trial. The lesson for would be neighbourhood commandos is not to rely on luck, but to avoid starting confrontations that could end in a shooting.

You’re missing my point about SYG hearings - they are a way to quickly and without betting on a jury get charges dismissed. It’s telling that Zimmerman didn’t use that method. In this case, were it available (which it is not apparently under WI law) that sort of hearing would probably have been used.


Oy.  Not this crap again.  Zimmerman wasn’t chasing Martin with a gun drawn like some Hollywood douch.  He was on the phone with the cops trying to give them an accurate location, and backed off when asked by the cops to do so.  He was then confronted my Martin, who by then was itching for a fight.  The gun only came out when Zimmerman reasonably perceived his life was in danger. 

For Rittenhouse SYG might have applied if he’d shot someone that was trying to assault his position and was refusing to back down, but he was running away and trying to avoid a fight when his pursuers forced his hand.  He wasn’t standing his ground, he was trying to get away. 

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #70 on: November 02, 2021, 11:21:55 PM »

Zimmerman knew Martín was trying to get away from
him and gave chase. He lucked out because the prosecution charged him with depraved heart murder, alleged racial bias and then tossed in the charge that actually fit at the end of the trial. The lesson for would be neighbourhood commandos is not to rely on luck, but to avoid starting confrontations that could end in a shooting.

You’re missing my point about SYG hearings - they are a way to quickly and without betting on a jury get charges dismissed. It’s telling that Zimmerman didn’t use that method. In this case, were it available (which it is not apparently under WI law) that sort of hearing would probably have been used.

I guess the big question is: Are you really that *expletive deleted*ing stupid or do think we are? Every one of your points are demonstrated falsehoods, debunked everywhere but the depraved minds of libtards.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

De Selby

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #71 on: November 02, 2021, 11:48:06 PM »

Oy.  Not this crap again.  Zimmerman wasn’t chasing Martin with a gun drawn like some Hollywood douch.  He was on the phone with the cops trying to give them an accurate location, and backed off when asked by the cops to do so.  He was then confronted my Martin, who by then was itching for a fight.  The gun only came out when Zimmerman reasonably perceived his life was in danger. 

For Rittenhouse SYG might have applied if he’d shot someone that was trying to assault his position and was refusing to back down, but he was running away and trying to avoid a fight when his pursuers forced his hand.  He wasn’t standing his ground, he was trying to get away.

You are not understanding the difference between SYG the principle and SYG the procedure, whereby in FL a Judge can determine a person is immune from prosecution without ever putting tje case to a jury.

A SYG hearing, again, is one where you cannot be convicted, but if a Judge finds you were lawfully exercising a right to self defence, further prosecution is barred. You do not need to risk a jury not buying your story in order to defeat the charge before trial in FL.

The fact that Zimmerman had that option available and did not take it is the best refutation of your statement of facts in his case.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

De Selby

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #72 on: November 02, 2021, 11:49:43 PM »

I guess the big question is: Are you really that *expletive deleted*ing stupid or do think we are? Every one of your points are demonstrated falsehoods, debunked everywhere but the depraved minds of libtards.

I think you did not read what I said about the Rittenhouse case, or else you’d see how ridiculous it is to call that evaluation one that is “part of the minds of libtards.”
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Bogie

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #73 on: November 03, 2021, 12:09:36 AM »

So, Martin wasn't actually on a gay bashing tangent? Like what his lady friend suggested?
 
And... During the last bit of troubles here, one of the local stop'n'robs got looted two nights in a row. The third night, there was a guy sitting in the front door with an AR.
 
Was that a bad idea?
 
Didn't get looted again.
Blog under construction

Nick1911

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #74 on: November 03, 2021, 12:25:09 AM »

I guess the big question is: Are you really that *expletive deleted*ing stupid or do think we are? Every one of your points are demonstrated falsehoods, debunked everywhere but the depraved minds of libtards.

"libtard" isn't a very becoming of you.  I hope we can do better than to mockingly equate those with differing political positions to "retards", itself a rather dated and pejorative term.
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