Author Topic: Rittenhouse trial  (Read 53844 times)

K Frame

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #300 on: November 15, 2021, 12:02:26 PM »
And the ruling on the weapons charge takes the wind out of the sails of one of my FB friends...

She was going on and on and on how Rittenhouse was guilty of the gun charge, which by extension meant he was also guilty of murder.

Oops...

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French G.

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #301 on: November 15, 2021, 12:06:28 PM »
How many free steps will an acquitted Rittenhouse take before being arrested by federal agents for hate crimes or domestic terror charges?
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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #302 on: November 15, 2021, 12:14:28 PM »
And the ruling on the weapons charge takes the wind out of the sails of one of my FB friends...

She was going on and on and on how Rittenhouse was guilty of the gun charge, which by extension meant he was also guilty of murder.

Oops...



I’m guessing she isn’t concerned at all about arson, assault, and looting that the “victims” were engaged in. Those violations of the law are A-OK in her book.

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WLJ

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #303 on: November 15, 2021, 12:21:42 PM »
I’m guessing she isn’t concerned at all about arson, assault, and looting that the “victims” were engaged in. Those violations of the law are A-OK in her book.

As long as the right left people are doing it.
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K Frame

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #304 on: November 15, 2021, 12:27:24 PM »
I’m guessing she isn’t concerned at all about arson, assault, and looting that the “victims” were engaged in. Those violations of the law are A-OK in her book.



But those were mostly peaceful protests!
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Nick1911

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #305 on: November 15, 2021, 12:40:38 PM »
How long do you suppose deliberations will last?

Ben

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #306 on: November 15, 2021, 12:59:37 PM »
How many free steps will an acquitted Rittenhouse take before being arrested by federal agents for hate crimes or domestic terror charges?

I haven't seen anything yet, but from the behavior of this DOJ so far, he won't get many steps. I also would expect them to use their favorite "domestic terrorist" line. I don't see any way of it sticking, and he would likely go free at some point. But it's all about breaking people via the process.

Kyle will likely get a bunch of pro bono defense offers if this happens, but not everyone the feds do this crap to gets that lucky.
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sumpnz

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #307 on: November 15, 2021, 01:11:55 PM »
I haven't seen anything yet, but from the behavior of this DOJ so far, he won't get many steps. I also would expect them to use their favorite "domestic terrorist" line. I don't see any way of it sticking, and he would likely go free at some point. But it's all about breaking people via the process.

Kyle will likely get a bunch of pro bono defense offers if this happens, but not everyone the feds do this crap to gets that lucky.

The process is, in many way, the punishment.

I just hope Robert Barnes is at least on level involved after the verdict is in, whichever way things go.

sumpnz

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #308 on: November 15, 2021, 01:16:03 PM »
How long do you suppose deliberations will last?

The longer it takes the more likely at least lesser included charges are going to return guilty verdicts.  A very fast deliberation will either mean guilty on all charges or not guilty due to self defense on all charges.  I’d say guilty is more likely in a super fast decision.  A modestly long deliberation (say, a decision by tomorrow evening) is likely a not guilty verdict on at least the most serious charges.  If it runs past Thursday I’d say it’s heading for a hung jury on some or all counts.

Ben

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #309 on: November 15, 2021, 01:37:13 PM »
Closing arguments.

"You lose the right to self-defense when you're the one who brought the gun." "You can't claim self-defense against an unarmed man."

https://twitter.com/i/status/1460303719262826496

More prosecutor wisdom at:

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2021/11/15/the-hell-kyle-rittenhouse-trial-ada-thomas-binger-claims-you-lose-the-right-to-self-defense-when-youre-the-one-who-brought-the-gun-video/

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HankB

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #310 on: November 15, 2021, 01:41:50 PM »
Hmmm . . . if they're afraid of violent riots when Kyle is acquitted . . . doesn't that mean it would be his assailant's supporters who are prone to violent rioting? And wouldn't that suggest that the people Kyle shot were the same kind of people?

If I were a juror and heard/saw some of what's being said OUTSIDE of court, my inclination would be to acquit now, even if it wasn't before.
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K Frame

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #311 on: November 15, 2021, 01:42:45 PM »
""You lose the right to self-defense when you're the one who brought the gun." "You can't claim self-defense against an unarmed man.""

Wow... I'm really glad that I'm not on the jury. I would not be able to control my outburst at that.

Does the prosecution close first or last?

I'm hoping first, and I hope that the defense shoves that statement up Binger's ass sideways.
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K Frame

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #312 on: November 15, 2021, 01:45:31 PM »
Excellent.

Prosecution goes first in closing arguments.

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WLJ

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #313 on: November 15, 2021, 01:47:55 PM »
""You lose the right to self-defense when you're the one who brought the gun." "You can't claim self-defense against an unarmed man.""

Wow... I'm really glad that I'm not on the jury. I would not be able to control my outburst at that.


In this day and age if there are any liberals on that jury what the prosecutor said will be one of those "the science is setter" "facts" to them.
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De Selby

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #314 on: November 15, 2021, 02:06:06 PM »
Closing arguments.

"You lose the right to self-defense when you're the one who brought the gun." "You can't claim self-defense against an unarmed man."

https://twitter.com/i/status/1460303719262826496

More prosecutor wisdom at:

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2021/11/15/the-hell-kyle-rittenhouse-trial-ada-thomas-binger-claims-you-lose-the-right-to-self-defense-when-youre-the-one-who-brought-the-gun-video/

The key bit is “provoking other people.” If the jury buys the story he was pointing the rifle at people right before the first shooting he is in serious trouble. There really wasn’t anything in the trial except that grainy video at the end, but who knows what a jury will do?

It’s better to never face a jury than have a great case.




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MechAg94

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #315 on: November 15, 2021, 02:07:19 PM »
I am listening to Steven Crowder's livestream.  I thought CNN or someone said the prosecutor gets to rebut the defense after the defense closing arguments.  Anyone know how it is done in Wisconsin?


For closing arguments, the prosecutor is talking an awful long time and practically reintroducing evidence.  There needs to be a fixed time limit.  He is playing videos and such.
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K Frame

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #316 on: November 15, 2021, 02:22:41 PM »
I thought I heard that each side gets 2.5 hours for their closing argument.
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MechAg94

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #317 on: November 15, 2021, 02:24:01 PM »
I thought I heard that each side gets 2.5 hours for their closing argument.
I heard that also last week.  2.5 hours is a very very long time.  Should be more like 30 minutes. 
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dogmush

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #318 on: November 15, 2021, 02:44:25 PM »
The key bit is “provoking other people.” If the jury buys the story he was pointing the rifle at people right before the first shooting he is in serious trouble. There really wasn’t anything in the trial except that grainy video at the end, but who knows what a jury will do?

It’s better to never face a jury than have a great case.

This is an untrue statement.  Under WI (and many others) law, while provoking, or threatening, a third party can be it's own crime, once he disengaged and ran he regains the right to self defense.  Once one party communicates the desire to stop the engagement  everyone is supposed to stop. By pursuing and cornering Kyle, Rosenbaum became the aggressor and Kyle had the right to defend himself.


And that's if you believe Kyle decided to be a southpaw for a sec and pointed the rifle at anyone.

De Selby

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #319 on: November 15, 2021, 02:55:23 PM »
This is an untrue statement.  Under WI (and many others) law, while provoking, or threatening, a third party can be it's own crime, once he disengaged and ran he regains the right to self defense.  Once one party communicates the desire to stop the engagement  everyone is supposed to stop. By pursuing and cornering Kyle, Rosenbaum became the aggressor and Kyle had the right to defend himself.


And that's if you believe Kyle decided to be a southpaw for a sec and pointed the rifle at anyone.


That’s a great argument on the evidence and in general - unfortunately the prosecutor was not so generous, and there is a non-zero possibility the jury believes his version of provocation which was offered against a jury instruction quite different to your explanation of the law of WI.

It is absolutely true to say that if the jury believes the line about pointing the gun first, he’s in serious trouble. Because that means everything about his encounter with the first decedent turns on exhausting all avenues of retreat. Will they buy the provocation arguments?

Hard to say, but sure is a good reason to think it’s better to avoid these situations in the first place.
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dogmush

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #320 on: November 15, 2021, 03:02:24 PM »
36 pages of jury instructions.

That seems like it isn't succinct and easy to understand for lay people.

Ben

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #321 on: November 15, 2021, 03:03:30 PM »
Holy crap. I thought this was just some conservatives making fun of the prosecution with an internet image, but Binger actually used this image from "Roadhouse" in closing statements, also telling the jury, "Many of you have probably been in a barfight before..."

https://twitter.com/i/status/1460303717866119172

Also, in the movie, an unarmed Dalton killed that guy.

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dogmush

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #322 on: November 15, 2021, 03:06:15 PM »
And the bad guy was armed.

Ben

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #323 on: November 15, 2021, 03:10:33 PM »
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

MechAg94

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Re: Rittenhouse trial
« Reply #324 on: November 15, 2021, 03:11:15 PM »
Unbelievably brave heroes:



https://twitter.com/i/status/1460315228210614282
Did they ask her which one was the convicted pedophile? 
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